Bigfoot Research – Still No Evidence, But Plenty Of Excuses To Explain Why There’S No Evidence

[Guest thermalman]

Saskeptic quote:

"The best comparison I can offer is the Cornell Lab of Ornithology and their (with partners) long time search for a rediscovery of Ivory-billed Woodpeckers. The Lab has invested millions in the search based on the same kind of "evidence" offered for bigfoot: passionate observers relaying tearful eyewitness accounts, sound recordings, feeding and nesting sign, grainy photographs and video - it's really quite similar. They've had organized teams of trained field biologists, leading woodpecker experts from around the world, the absolute state-of-the-art in wildlife survey technology, a veritable army of amateur weekend-warriors contributing and in various permutations over the last 20 years or so. For all that effort, they ultimately are no closer today than they were way back when. They effectively closed shop on Ivorybill operations a couple of years ago with the statement "We do not believe that a recoverable population exists."

Apples and oranges. Comparing rediscovery with a potential new discovery.

Edited August 25, 2012 by thermalman

[Guest]

Saskeptic quote:

"So I come here with preconceived and immovable notions, but if you consider why I come here it's to challenge my preconceptions and potentially nudge my notions."

Just a thought, maybe get out in the field and look for yourself? That should nudge your notions and challenge your preconceptions.

I think you'll find that you've misspoken here.

[Guest thermalman]

Seems like it.........sorry, I removed it. Thanks.

[Guest BFSleuth]

And as for Meldrum, he bent over backwards to make bigfoot the cabin vandal without even considering the possiblity that it was teens from the nearby native settlement.

Do you have any references we can read that would put a native village in the proximity of the cabin? What investigation was conducted to establish as a fact that it was vandalism from the native teens?

[Guest thermalman]

Watch out for stereotyping Malboro? It produces hot water.

[Guest BFSleuth]

The best comparison I can offer is the Cornell Lab of Ornithology and their (with partners) long time search for a rediscovery of Ivory-billed Woodpeckers. The Lab has invested millions in the search based on the same kind of "evidence" offered for bigfoot: passionate observers relaying tearful eyewitness accounts, sound recordings, feeding and nesting sign, grainy photographs and video - it's really quite similar. They've had organized teams of trained field biologists, leading woodpecker experts from around the world, the absolute state-of-the-art in wildlife survey technology, a veritable army of amateur weekend-warriors contributing and in various permutations over the last 20 years or so. For all that effort, they ultimately are no closer today than they were way back when. They effectively closed shop on Ivorybill operations a couple of years ago with the statement "We do not believe that a recoverable population exists."

What are the conditions under which bigfooters would be willing to make such a statement? I think our best bet for honest and intelligent discussion of the bigfoot phenomenon begins with a spirit of mutual respect across the divide and the establishment of conditions under which each side would be willing to admit having been on the wrong side of the debate.

Your post was well thought out and explained your position very well, a +1 from me. I agree that for those of us who are proponents without personally seeing a BF ourselves, that we also need to bear in mind the idea that we can be proven wrong.

I quoted this part of your post as perhaps the thing that might "turn the tide" for me personally to consider that BF does not exist. You noted that millions has been spent over the course of a 20 year search for rediscovery of the Ivory-billed woodpecker, with teams of trained scientists in the field from one organization. If that level of research and funding was done in research regarding bigfoot and after a similar period of time it was fruitless and could establish the origin of phenomena such as trackways in remote locations, vocalizations that don't match existing known animals, etc. I think I would reluctantly have to give up my proponent stance. It would be refreshing to have a similar level of interest and effort from established scientists in this field and would do much to resolve the issue.

[southernyahoo]

^I'm right behind both you and Saskeptic on this issue Sleuth, in fact I might settle for half the effort put forth to find the Ivory-billed woodpecker, and if that were only applied to apparent nests and hair samples it would settle the issue right quickly I think.

[Guest RayG]

Do you have any references we can read that would put a native village in the proximity of the cabin?

Takes less than two minutes with Google maps. The village of Slate Falls is within 10 miles (as the crow flies) of Snelgrove Lake.

And Snelgrove Lake is NOT 250 miles north of Ottawa, as asserted in the Monsterquest episode. But who cares about pesky facts like that? Oh, that's right... skeptics do.

What investigation was conducted to establish as a fact that it was vandalism from the native teens?

If memory serves me correctly, an insurance company investigated the scene of the damage. I'd like to hear what they concluded.

RayG

[Guest]

I am not convinced that anyone here - likewise Roger Patterson, Albert Ostman, William Roe - has ever encountered a "bigfoot." I have considered all manner of evidence for the existence of such creatures, and I find that evidence wanting. I am absolutely comfortable making a black-and-white statement like "There is no bigfoot."

Then what did I see, oh sage one? I saw a bigfoot. I recognized what I saw as a bigfoot. It was not a bear on two legs. It was not a man in a suit. I was not drunk, on drugs or hallucinating.

While that sounds like an immovable notion, it is in fact very much movable: show me a bigfoot and I'll move it. Few things in this world would make me happier than being able to say "I was once absolutely convinced that there was no such thing as bigfoot, but I was wrong."

So I come here with preconceived and immovable notions, but if you consider why I come here it's to challenge my preconceptions and potentially nudge my notions.

Yet you ignore/dismiss/belittle all the evidence that your notions are wrong...so why ARE you here? I have real problems crediting your motives given your intranigence on accepting the evidence to hand.

What I would like to know is the conditions under which proponents of real, live, flesh-and-blood bigfoots would change their tune. If we're trying to solve some "mystery," then we need ground rules to decide when the search has been sufficient and it's time to move on. I know that's especially difficult for people who are convinced that they have personally seen a bigfoot, but what about others? At what point can we say, "Yeah, we really did look for a bigfoot, and we didn't find it"? We skeptics are ready to turn on a dime, are you?

You will never prove there is no bigfoot, especially not to those of us who have seen one first hand. We are not "convinced" that we saw one...we saw one. Reality trumps your theoretical construct every time.

The best comparison I can offer is the Cornell Lab of Ornithology and their (with partners) long time search for a rediscovery of Ivory-billed Woodpeckers. The Lab has invested millions in the search based on the same kind of "evidence" offered for bigfoot: passionate observers relaying tearful eyewitness accounts, sound recordings, feeding and nesting sign, grainy photographs and video - it's really quite similar. They've had organized teams of trained field biologists, leading woodpecker experts from around the world, the absolute state-of-the-art in wildlife survey technology, a veritable army of amateur weekend-warriors contributing and in various permutations over the last 20 years or so. For all that effort, they ultimately are no closer today than they were way back when. They effectively closed shop on Ivorybill operations a couple of years ago with the statement "We do not believe that a recoverable population exists."

Then they are not being scientific, and neither are people like you who deny the evidence for bigfoot.

Do you have any references we can read that would put a native village in the proximity of the cabin? What investigation was conducted to establish as a fact that it was vandalism from the native teens?

The "indian kids did it" reminds me of the claims made that RP hoaxed BF sightings in and around Yakima. Including one incident where a BF was attacked and had his...credentials...mauled by a dog. I've been asking for quite some time now for the Skeptics to show the medical records proving some guy turned up in the ER with mangled "junk".

Likewise I'm still waiting for the medical records to show some native kid with HUGE feet showing up in a medical setting with his foot perforated not just once, but at least a dozen times by screws and nails.

[Guest]

Ten miles through Ontario's north land is a long way to go, ever been up there Ray? Your not going to walk, or atv it, unless there are recent logging roads. Its pretty far fetched to think someone came cross country to vandalize, or hoax a cabin.

Thats like the last time we where up in Northern Ontario, my buddy was thinking he was going to explore the great Canadian north, was going to "hike" through the wilderness, that lasted ten minutes.

Edited August 25, 2012 by JohnC

[Guest RayG]

I assure you, I've lived 'up north'. Waaaaaaay up north. And not for a week or two on some fishing vacation either.

If you check out Google maps, you'll see there's a dirt road that leads right past one of the fingers of Snelgrove Lake. I'd be willing to bet the residents of Slate Falls wouldn't find it far fetched to get over there.

RayG

[Guest RayG]

Ten miles through Ontario's north land is a long way to go...

And yet, the communities of Slate Falls and Cat Lake (38 miles apart) have somehow gotten together to create a Community Based Land Use Plan.

RayG

[Guest]

If memory serves me correctly, an insurance company investigated the scene of the damage. I'd like to hear what they concluded.

As if any insurance agent or adjuster wanting to keep their job would write up a payout for "vandalism by bigfoot"... :rolleyes"

I assure you, I've lived 'up north'. Waaaaaaay up north. And not for a week or two on some fishing vacation either.

If you check out Google maps, you'll see there's a dirt road that leads right past one of the fingers of Snelgrove Lake. I'd be willing to bet the residents of Slate Falls wouldn't find it far fetched to get over there.

RayG

Still waiting on the records of some guy turning up with a mangled foot, Ray.

[Guest John]

I'm truly uncertain as to how many times I've read over the last 10 years the prediction that 'proof' of bigfoot/sasquatch is finally coming soon. But I've read it several times and read it again in this thread.

I'll make the bold prediction though at this point - No it isn't.

To be clear - I'm sure someone somewhere will come up with something else cleverly thought out to add to the legend to be taken on board by proponents (never to be rejected).

But if we are talking about me, in the foreseeable future, opening a wildlife book and looking in the B or S section and finding an exciting new species, or watching an Horizon Special that charts the history of bigfoot/sasquatch until it's final scientific acceptance then, no.

Shame as I wish it were otherwise....

[Guest thermalman]

Gotta learn not to believe everything you read. Keeping that in mind, will lessen your frustrations.