Operation Persistence

[Cotter]

dmaker - you touch upon a question I've had in the past, perhaps you, and others can help.

What animals, aside humans, are capable of throwing rocks in North America?

I know squirrels, possums, raccoons, chipmunks, birds, (and a lot more) are capable of DROPPING stuff from trees, nuts, twigs, etc....

But actually throwing rocks....I'm not so sure what is capable of doing that.

Thoughts?

[dmaker]

Cotter, I would imagine only humans in North America are capable of throwing rocks. Reported rock throwing could be animals dropping items onto a roof, sure. It could be the wind, it could be ( and most likely is in most cases) people hoaxing. But who knows? I just tire of it always being a squatch. Until someone actually manages to show the monkey, I'm not going to get too excited about anything. It gets so tiring after awhile. Look at this; listen to this; this guy says; that girl says....yet in none of it is there anything beyond thin evidence. Worth nothing, proof wise, in the long run.

Edited April 1, 2013 by dmaker

[WSA]

If I had a nickel for every time someone had an excuse for why squatches can be all over the place doing very noisy, obvious things, but somehow they leave no evidence behind, well I'd have a pretty large bag of nickels by now. And yeah, we'll see when these DNA samples come back as some known animal and not an unknown primate.

Well, the whole point is they DO leave evidence behind. They leave the same evidence that other ordinary animals leave, and behave like many other ordinary elusive animals behave. I think you want them to leave behind radioactive scat or burn trees with laser death-ray eyes, maybe? Chunking objects is such an obvious activity for bipedal hominids it probably should be considered de rigeur. I'd be more astounded to learn of a critter who walks on two legs who didn't do that. But what you don't know, because you don't read of it, is that objects of immense weight are being hurled over incredible distances. Time and time again, all kinds of people in roughly similar circumstances, reporting the same thing happening in roughly the same way.

Edited April 1, 2013 by WSA

[dmaker]

^^ Which leaves us at the Bigfoot is real because a bunch of people say so argument. Which is the theme of so many posts in a different thread that we should probably just leave it where it is and not drag that tired old discussion into this thread.

Edited April 1, 2013 by dmaker

[WSA]

Agreed.

[Cotter]

^dmaker, I can COMPLETELY understand your frustrations.

I know you didn't get the warm tinglies from one of the folks in the interview above, but for a minute, just imagine if YOU are with the OP crew, and had rocks raining down on your cabin regularly, and could NOT get even a blobsquatch photo of the culprit(s). How frustrating would that be?

I'm not accepting anyone's word as truth on this forum, however, I'm also not going to dismiss someone's account b/c of lack of hard evidence presented. Taking it at face value, and KNOWING what the OP guys are set out to do (assuming hoaxers do as well), it leads me to think that the OP guys/gals are either 1) lying, or 2) experiencing wood apes. I just don't see an ongoing hoax here being perpetuated on the team.

So I feel that you and I have a 50/50 chance of being right.

[Guest]

But wood apes are hardly the sole creatures capable of throwing rocks on this planet.

No, but the others that I'm aware of aren't too keen on getting shot at on a regular basis.

[dmaker]

I understand that you shoot at these things..it's been brought up many,many times. How much success you having with that though?

[Guest]

Taking it at face value, and KNOWING what the OP guys are set out to do (assuming hoaxers do as well), it leads me to think that the OP guys/gals are either 1) lying, or 2) experiencing wood apes. I just don't see an ongoing hoax here being perpetuated on the team.

Nor do I.

Not only are the group's intentions well known, we have had multiple practical examples for anyone in the vicinity to realize we're not playing games. Yet still they come and hit the cabin and throw rocks and bang on sheds, etc. If these are hoaxers, they are hoaxers who do not fear death. Misidentification seems impossible as we find rocks on the roof of the cabin and have had now multiple full-figure sightings by different members. Therefore, the only two remaining possibilites are we are lying or wood apes are there.

dmaker said, "Until someone actually manages to show the monkey, I'm not going to get too excited about anything." Stay tuned.

I understand that you shoot at these things..it's been brought up many,many times. How much success you having with that though?

Since we're having this conversation, not enough.

The nature of these encounters is that they're fleeting. The nature of the environment is its dense and provides cover. We don't like to shoot at things we can't identify, so that combination leaves relatively few clean opportunities. I would argue, however, that just one would be enough to dissuade hoaxers. Thus far, they have not been.

[dmaker]

Hey, I wish you the best of luck. If there is such a thing as a front runner in this game, your group might just be it. I'm not holding my breath in the meantime. You have been at this quite some time now, no? Like so many other efforts to do with BF, lots of time, little results. But ultimately I am not there, you and your folks are. I find your claims to be non-validated, but that is nothing new in Footery. In fact, it's the norm.

So hopefully your team can bring home the goods. That would be great. Count me out for getting excited about yet more eyewitness reports, tales of rocks in the night, etc.

[Guest DWA]

No. They are not rejected out of hand. They are rejected because their is no evidence supporting the claims.

They are not claiming a small mouse, which inhabits swamps in a small corner of Michigan's central plateau exists. They are claiming that a Giant Hairy Beast, 6' to 11' tall, weighing 200-800 pounds, is cavorting throughout a range which exceeds almost every other mammal in North America. And while they claim it is elusive, it is allegedly seen by thousands of people a year. In fact, some claim it reclines in the middle of roadways. An animal that size, and with that range, does not remain unverified in The United States.

They are not rejected out of hand, and I adopt this posture for other things: Dragons, T-rex, Nessie, Unicorns, Mothmen. And up until last year, I would never have accepted a story that a Wolverine was in California. Then they went and got poo, hair, and photos of the thing. And now, I agree there are Wolverines in California.

Great! We have poo, hair AND A MOVIE of sasquatch. Welcome aboard. Who says they got those things for a wolverine? In CA? Ever been there? NO WOLVERINES IN CA. You just what, believe those people? Confirming a wolverine in CA is a career-maker. I yell HOAX on that one, loud and long. If you really think that dragons et al belong in this discussion you may be disqualified already. Man do you just swaller stuff!

[ohiobill]

I think the analogy you should be concerned with is the fact that people "see" dragons, dinosaurs, elves, faeries, mermaids, lake monsters, dogmen, werewolves, vampires etc in addition to bigfoot and wolverines. Your oft-repeated wisdom is that if people see it it's true. You need nothing further than your vast mastery of sighting literature to lay the blame of no type specimen squarely on the scientists who you feel don't do enough to prove your personal beliefs. Can I assume that given sighting literature of dragons, dinosaurs, elves, faeries, mermaids, lake monsters, dogmen, werewolves, vampires, and wolverines you will be able to confirm their existence and stand at the forefront in getting these creatures recognized?

[Guest DWA]

Um, no, for reasons that if you'd read up you'd realize are unnecessary for me to go into. You have, however, laid the scientific proponents waste with your impeccable logic (or, more likely, done something else for which the word 'waste' is appropriate).

[ohiobill]

So you are now stating that sightings don't correlate with existence?

[Guest DWA]

You show me the Dragon Database. Show me the guidebook characteristics of dragons. Meldrum has a sasquatch field guide. The Dragon Field Guide is, er, based on what? Come on. How many dragons have you seen? Any tracks? I've never seen a mink or wolverine, so those definitely aren't real.