Operation Persistence

[Guest Cervelo]

Of course....you've got it all figured out and have all the answers

Just saw up thread some may not have your vast knowledge of known animal behavior.

[norseman]

Yeah, we know what that sounds like. The sound we hear is more like the pop you make with your tongue.

The sound in the forest I'm familiar with that sounds like a tongue cluck, is a Raven.

[Guest]

We've called it a cluck, though it's nothing like a chicken.

Of course, we haven't observed them making the sound. But in this case, he heard it being repeated back and forth for a while, did one himself, got the deep growl and charge. It's not a sound we heard until last year.

Bear? Not unless it ran on two legs toward him through the bush. Also, not a raven.

[Guest DWA]

Actually, if I really checked the numbers, which most folks would know there is no reason to do, i'd find out that Africans spend *more* time per month than 50 years of sasquatch field work.

So...you decided to make it up because you think most other people would do the same...but you did so safe in the knowledge that if you could be bothered to look, then the answer would probably be even more right than the one that you made up. Yes, why bother with facts, I know you are a fan of critical thinking!

If I am not dealing with people who are, why bother? You're the one who brought irrelevant apes into this discussion. Bipto and I told you why it's apples and Ganymede, in ways a critical thinker would understand. Don't let us down.

[dmaker]

I'm curious about something. It hasn't been outright asked here, but in the state of Texas if you shoot an unarmed person in the woods at night, would that be manslaughter? There are, probably, a lot of extenuating circumstances like he was charging me in a threatening manner or refused to identify, or respond to commands to stop, etc. And Bipto, I am not at all trying to say that you and your folks are homicidal in any way, but surely you have given this scenario some thought? Even if you, or someone else in NAWAC, shot a hoaxer, what do you think your chances of walking away without a charge are? I am not, at all, familiar with gun laws in Texas. Heck, I'm Canadian, so going out into the woods to look for a humanoid beast while heeled is practically a crime in itself.

[norseman]

I'm curious about something. It hasn't been outright asked here, but in the state of Texas if you shoot an unarmed person in the woods at night, would that be manslaughter? There are, probably, a lot of extenuating circumstances like he was charging me in a threatening manner or refused to identify, or respond to commands to stop, etc. And Bipto, I am not at all trying to say that you and your folks are homicidal in any way, but surely you have given this scenario some thought? Even if you, or someone else in NAWAC, shot a hoaxer, what do you think your chances of walking away without a charge are? I am not, at all, familiar with gun laws in Texas. Heck, I'm Canadian, so going out into the woods to look for a humanoid beast while heeled is practically a crime in itself.

texas kills more murderers per year by death sentence than all the rest of the states that have a death sentence combined.......

its a good state to shoot somebody in if the judge percieves the person as a low down cur dog. which iam sure would include somebody in a ape suit charging down on you.

We've called it a cluck, though it's nothing like a chicken.

Of course, we haven't observed them making the sound. But in this case, he heard it being repeated back and forth for a while, did one himself, got the deep growl and charge. It's not a sound we heard until last year.

Bear? Not unless it ran on two legs toward him through the bush. Also, not a raven.

yah no chicken clucks..... but a raven will sound like a human clucking there tongue. its a two fold sound sort of a cluck clooook the second cluck is abit deeper.

anyhow not trying th detract just sharing:)

[salubrious]

Not until someone finds one.

I found one. Does that count? Don't care to do it again, FWIW.

[dmaker]

I'm curious about something. It hasn't been outright asked here, but in the state of Texas if you shoot an unarmed person in the woods at night, would that be manslaughter? There are, probably, a lot of extenuating circumstances like he was charging me in a threatening manner or refused to identify, or respond to commands to stop, etc. And Bipto, I am not at all trying to say that you and your folks are homicidal in any way, but surely you have given this scenario some thought? Even if you, or someone else in NAWAC, shot a hoaxer, what do you think your chances of walking away without a charge are? I am not, at all, familiar with gun laws in Texas. Heck, I'm Canadian, so going out into the woods to look for a humanoid beast while heeled is practically a crime in itself.

texas kills more murderers per year by death sentence than all the rest of the states that have a death sentence combined.......

its a good state to shoot somebody in if the judge percieves the person as a low down cur dog. which iam sure would include somebody in a ape suit charging down on you.

We've called it a cluck, though it's nothing like a chicken.

Of course, we haven't observed them making the sound. But in this case, he heard it being repeated back and forth for a while, did one himself, got the deep growl and charge. It's not a sound we heard until last year.

Bear? Not unless it ran on two legs toward him through the bush. Also, not a raven.

yah no chicken clucks..... but a raven will sound like a human clucking there tongue. its a two fold sound sort of a cluck clooook the second cluck is abit deeper.

anyhow not trying th detract just sharing:)

I beg to differ Norse. Think about it. You're in front of a judge and the best you can come up with, in defense of manslaughter, is I thought it was a Bigfoot? And I am out in these woods trying to shoot a Bigfoot? I'm sorry your Honor, I was chasing the boogeyman,and oopsie, I shot myself a person. Noting else will hold water. There is page after page after page of evidence here that shows that they were out there looking to shoot a rather ambiguous, bipedal, nocturnal creature that no one has really got a clear identification of yet, but you think you are qualified to go out and start shooting at it? You better not miss.. You really think a judge is going to be sympathetic to that when there is a dead homo sapiens sapiens at stake? I don't.

I really think that oooops, I was chasing the boogeyman, is not really gonna cut it when it's a dead human lying on the forest floor. It goes without saying, you had better be sure when you pull that trigger Bipto.

I'm sorry, but I don't think any judge in any state is going to equate a BF hoaxer to a low down cur that needed killing. In fact, I'm pretty sure any judge trying such a case would make an example of any arm chair researcher that took that shot. Such a person would find himself hunting Bigfoot from behind federal bars for a long time I would suspect.

Not until someone finds one.

I found one. Does that count? Don't care to do it again, FWIW.

No, it doesn't count. Not being a jerk, but scientifically speaking, no, your personal proclamation means no more than the 10,000 that came before it.

Edited April 9, 2013 by dmaker

[Guest]

I'm curious about something. It hasn't been outright asked here, but in the state of Texas if you shoot an unarmed person in the woods at night, would that be manslaughter?

The Ouachitas aren't in Texas.

Operational security is a high priority for us. This is one of the main reasons we don't disclose the location of the area.

WRT to the idea that we'd accidentally shoot an "unarmed person" in the course of our work, if said person growled at us and came busting though the bush in our direction, yes, they may find themselves in a difficult position. Anyone attempting to hoax or otherwise interfere with what we're doing there would be playing a very dangerous game indeed.

...your personal proclamation means no more than the 10,000 that came before it.

Quoted for significance.

[Drew]

Not until someone finds one.

I found one. Does that count? Don't care to do it again, FWIW.

If you would have run it over, we'd be talking about Bigfoot as an animal.

WRT to the idea that we'd accidentally shoot an "unarmed person" in the course of our work, if said person growled at us and came busting though the bush in our direction, yes, they may find themselves in a difficult position. Anyone attempting to hoax or otherwise interfere with what we're doing there would be playing a very dangerous game indeed.

This reeks of premeditation.

Screen shot. You have been warned repeatedly that you are in danger of shooting a person performing a prank. It sounds as though you have planned for this scenario.

Have you planned for the contingency that this does happen at Area X? What are your procedures if you do shoot a person who is pulling a prank? Will it be different options if it is a high school kid? as opposed to an adult?

[Guest]

Hmm. I think you need to look up "premeditation." How can one premeditate an accident? Especially when one has repeatedly warned others of the risk?

I think you're biggest fear, Drew, is not for the safety of others but that we might actually prove this thing you're so certain doesn't exist.

[Drew]

Hmm. I think you need to look up "premeditation." How can one premeditate an accident? Especially when one has repeatedly warned others of the risk?

Are you serious?

If you say "I AM GOING TO SHOOT THE NEXT HAIRY BEAST THAT COMES OVER THAT HILL"

and I say, 'But that could be a human'

And you say "OH WELL THEY ARE REALLY DUMB IF IT IS"

then that is premeditation

If a deer hunter says "I AM GOING TO SHOOT THE NEXT ANIMAL NO MATTER WHAT IT IS THAT WALKS UNDER MY TREE STAND"

and I say "WHAT IF IT IS A HUMAN?"

and they say "OH WELL"

then that is premeditation.

[Cotter]

Just to play devil's advocate here.

If the land is private, Castle Laws could very easily be applied (assuming there is a version of them in the state where area X is), especially if the tresspasser was acting aggressively or perceived to be taking/damaging property. That is to say, if indeed something like that happened, it would even be reported.

Secondly, Drew - is your end goal here to get LE crawling all over Area X? Or simply have Bipto and crew pack up and go home?

Finally - Drew - bit of a personal question here, but have you had any friends or relatives have some sort of 'experience' regarding the BF phenom?

[Guest]

So if someone hung a sign on a road that said "PRIVATE PROPERTY - KEEP OUT" and posted various other signs saying the same thing in the woods around that property yet someone still walked into the area and was accidentally wounded as a result, you're saying that's premeditation? Not only can't you think like a scientist, you can't think like a lawyer. Or a reasonable person. IMO.

Just to play devil's advocate here.

According to Drew, if we repeatedly warn people that we're using firearms in an attempt to collect a hairy forest-dwelling bipedal primate and someone knowingly comes into the area via the forest in a way meant to make us think they're a hairy forest-dwelling primate, any resultant injury to that person is a premeditated criminal act by us.

If you're reading my words, don't approach Area X via the woods. If you come to visit, use the road. Don't wear a monkey suit. Everything will be fine.

[Cotter]

^LOL!

"Don't wear a monkey suit. Everything will be fine"

That's some EXCELLENT advice!