BobbyO Posted November 4, 2012 SSR Team Share Posted November 4, 2012 Got a few questions for WIlderness and Forest Trackers and Hunters out there, and i know you are out there ( derekfoot, norseman, hunster et all ) and this is not a massively serious thread, just one that the majority of us could learn some stuff from you all. I was wondering if you guys ( derekfoot especially ) when tracking this animal, what the problems you have encountered are when doing so ? Do you believe that they go as far as trying to cover their tracks ( not just tracks as in the word, but their movements on the whole ) and if so, do you have any experiences you could recall that would suggest to you that they do in fact attempt to conceal their movements as best as they can when possible ? Do they take the " non predictable " route making things real tough for you to pre empt their movements etc ? This thread is not limited to the members i've mentioned, but i wouldn't mind some contribution of people that do class themselves as decent, above average if not professional Tracker/Hunter types, and people that have spent a considerable amount of time in the woods etc. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMBigfoot Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I'm not a good tracker by any means, but the tracks I saw in the snow in 1999 all of them went into the thickest brush. The 18" tracks came out of the woods onto the road and made a 90 degree turn and walked off into the brush along side a trail. The 8" tracks came out of the brush walked down an embankment onto the road turned around and went back into the brush. I wanted to possibly cut it off when I saw the 14" tracks that came out of the brush and walked around a firepit then back the same way it came from. Which is in thick brush. There was no way I could of tracked them through the thick brush even in the snow. They didn't stick to trails or the road. I have tracked a cougar for two miles in the snow and the cougar stayed on the trails, made scrapes and urine marks, and was easy to track compared to the BF tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyO Posted November 4, 2012 SSR Team Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 How recent and deep was the snow CM for the Sasquatch Tracks ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salubrious Posted November 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted November 4, 2012 Cm is right- they don't follow trails. And they will do things like walk on logs and the like to improve their countertracking (meaning: making it harder to track them). BTW I don't think they do this to hide from us in particular unless needs require. I think they do it all the time- the harder they are to track the easier time they have bagging deer and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyO Posted November 4, 2012 SSR Team Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 Good shout Sal but i doubt their prey would have any idea how to notice where they were except by scent maybe, but not by actual physical sign. It's an interesting subject this for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salubrious Posted November 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted November 4, 2012 Yes- makes one wonder why they do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMBigfoot Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 @BobbyO That was in Dec. 1999. It was the first snow of the year. It was about 2 inches deep and filling up fast. I was up around 4000ft and by the time I headed home it was down around 2000ft. So no one can tell me the 18" tracks was from a persons track that had melted and gotten bigger. The tracks were filling up with snow and getting smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyO Posted November 4, 2012 SSR Team Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 Thanks for clarifying CM.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 (edited) I don't consider myself a good tracker, but I've learned to ID tracks of what is present in my areas of interest, and could follow them in good to moderate conditions and terrain. I did hunt, before I got interested in this investigation. The only trackway I ever witnessed , was a partial (two of them, about 15 ft apart).. with around 15 -16 tracks we were very sure of. Then things got really tough, because of the lack of the snow coating (where the first and best ones were found). We could still track for another 20-30 yards (because of the direction of the clear ones) , but it soon got very difficult to be sure. If not for the snow (and softer ground below), I don't think the first ones found, would have ever been seen. We had to mark each one with a trail marker ribbon, or we never would have found any, the next day (snow was gone).The deepest ones in each trackway (two), were cast. Unidentified movement.. got the first investigator into the deeper forest area, to begin with. I don't think for one minute, that what ever made them.. just 'vanished", but instead.. the tracks got too difficult to follow on harder terrain, and it was starting to get dark out. A dark figure was seen briefly, moving in between trees, at about 70 yards away.. that was well further in, than where we lost the trail. Branches were broken all over, and that was not a good helper, on following the trail. All the tracks we noted, seemed to be consistently spaced, and well placed.. stepping around roots and larger debris. One exception.. was one that had a good sized branch crushed into it, that would have made for a mighty sore or injured foot, on any barefoot person I know. What I asked myself, at the scene.. and discussed with the others : Q) Why did i think they could possibly be sasquatch tracks ? A) They were human looking with a rounded heal ball, and what looked like a flex point cross line, just before the midpoint of the tracks (but slightly closer to the heal), and a clear definition of a toe pattern.. although individual toes could not be clearly noted. All were consistent in size, as well as the shape and measurements, which we measured and documented in great detail. Photos did not do any justice, as the live eyes on the scene..were the best tools of study. It was clear to see, they were made by a bare foot, or else by something that certainly simulated one, and Not a boot print. It was clear, that they were very fresh. One track, had a broken branch pushed down into it (mentioned above), and was a good indicator of how the foot flexed around it, by the imprint it left. The others, appeared to be stepped with care, around the major obstacles on the forest floor. That said, it is still baffling.. why we could only find one exit, and one entrance trackway.. in two separate trackways. Something must have stepped on the harder obstacles.. to get in and out, in each case.. or else, used the trees. Q why did i not think a person could have done it ? A It was found off the road, in very difficult walking conditions, and it was 20 degrees outside. These might not be good enough reasons for some, but did satisfy me. Speculation and possible conclusions : We were across the dirt road, investigating a tall grass area, where a large part was flattened, and looked to be a bed down location.. for deer, most likely. A few deer tracks were found. Did something come up through the forest.. to watch us, and then move back in when the first investigator walked up to the forest edge ? We have no idea, where the entrance tracks were, as we only found the exit ones. Those tracks (that were first found), was the end of a trackway, that stopped behind a large tree. Another trackway (with larger tracks) was found about 15' away (west), with the tracks going toward the road. We could not find the exit tracks. As noted, it was very difficult to see the tracks, without the snow, and lots of hard ground and tree roots where something could have stepped, and not left any tracks. We found other notable impressions (looked like the ball of a heal, or partial track).. that could not be confirmed as being from the same source, although it is speculated that it probably was, because of the shape and size of the possible heal impression. That is how hard this can be, and why one can't really come to many conclusions.. besides the tracks were made by something (or someone) that left a human - like barefoot impression. The only others I've seen, were single tracks in the soft ground.. with no others to compare too. They were quite similar in shape and size, to the partial trackway I discussed. I'm sure there are others... that have found more, and have much better examples of, or even better answers to your good questions, Bobby O. Edited November 5, 2012 by imonacan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branco Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 (edited) About five years ago a friend who was turkey hunting called me from the Ouchita Mts just after daylight. He wanted me come to a particular area where he had just heard a BF walking down a very rough, rock draw and scream and growl at him. (He was - now deceased - an excellcent woodsman and tracker, and had experienced encounters with BF before.) At the time he wanted to track the creature himself but was unable to try because of a bad back problem. I knew exactly where the draw was, and he described exactly where he had been when he heard the sounds. I went directly to the spot and was there less than an hour after he had heard the sounds. The draw (and apparently the BF)crossed a poorly maintained NF road, and my friend had been on the crest of a small, thickly wooded ridge overlooking the draw about 300 yards below the road. I parked a good way from the draw and carefully walked and scanned the road surface for tracks. Although the road had been graded or dozed a long time before, the surface was 90% small boulders and various sized rock. Before I got to the bottom of the draw on the road, there was more small grit on the road and I was sure I could find his tracks crossing the road. I didn't, even when I got PO'ed enough to get down on my hands and knees and searched that road for about 25 yards on both sides of where the draw crossed the road. I looked up that boulder covered draw to try to find loosened rock or partial tracks in the meager grit & pebble deposits between boulders to confirm that the critter had actually followed the draw. (There was no culvert under the road; the run-off flowed directly over the road surface.)I found no evidence of its passage. On the way back down to the road, I realized that the thing HAD to have walked across the road on the surfaces of the larger boulders that were stood above the road bed enough to be clear of water-borne grit. An old dozed fire trail intersected the downstream side of the road and ran to the woodline about 200 yards away. (The area I was in was an old clear-cut, now grown up in vines, weeds and brush.) I began slowly walking and looking at the surface of the old fire trail. It was also mostly covered in small rocks and boulders with scattered patches of weeds and grass. About 25 yards from the road, there were small pools of mud and water in the dozer tracks. Then I noticed that one of the small boulders alongside one mud holes had been slightly pressed into the ground, leaving a gap around its edges. Looking forward about four feet I saw where he screwed up. His left foot had been placed on a rounded boulder which partially rolled under his weight, causing the outside of that foot to slide into the mud. It threw him off balance so that he had to throw his right foot into the mud and rocks. When his left foot then came back down it was back on another larger boulder, leaving a muddy outline of half his foot. When the right foot came down it was slid through grass-cover rocks where most of the mud was wiped off. From that point on he walked the rocks, leaving only small traces of mud and grit on two of the rocks. When he hit the woods, he stayed in the bottom of the draw and walked the leaf covered rocks. It was a slow and tedious process to even find one impression per hundred yards in the leaves covering the rocks down the draw. They are cafeful about not leaving noticeable tracks. Sometime they slip up though. Edited November 5, 2012 by Branco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Wow... I don't feel so bad now I never picked anything up around a potential partial toe scrape I found once. Was there for a good hour... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Got a few questions for WIlderness and Forest Trackers and Hunters out there, and i know you are out there ( derekfoot, norseman, hunster et all ) and this is not a massively serious thread, just one that the majority of us could learn some stuff from you all. I was wondering if you guys ( derekfoot especially ) when tracking this animal, what the problems you have encountered are when doing so ? Do you believe that they go as far as trying to cover their tracks ( not just tracks as in the word, but their movements on the whole ) and if so, do you have any experiences you could recall that would suggest to you that they do in fact attempt to conceal their movements as best as they can when possible ? Do they take the " non predictable " route making things real tough for you to pre empt their movements etc ? This thread is not limited to the members i've mentioned, but i wouldn't mind some contribution of people that do class themselves as decent, above average if not professional Tracker/Hunter types, and people that have spent a considerable amount of time in the woods etc. Thanks The only Squatch tracks I were on was in deep snow when I was about 8 years old looking for a Xmas tree with my father............ I would consider myself a decent tracker within the realm of a hunter, but I have never been formally schooled nor do I track fugitives and things like that. A big difference between a hunter and a professional tracker is that as a hunter I'm typically looking for a blood trail. I can only say that it is impossible for anyone or anything to "hide" anything.........concerning their tracks. All one can hope for is to misdirect and buy time. With enough time a experienced tracker can and will track you down. He will spot if your walking backwards, walking on rocks, creek beds, etc. But time is the enemy of the tracker..........snow, rain and wind can obliterate tracks making it impossible to continue. And the problem with a Squatch is that your quarry is moving through rough mountainous terrain at a much faster clip than a athletic man could do out for a Sunday jog..........let alone a tracker on his hands and knees carefully putting the puzzle back together. So unless the Squatch is unaware of your back trail presence and is hanging out at the cave bouncing baby Bigfoot on his knee? The deficit between tracker and Squatch continues to grow at a rate that is unsustainable until the trackway is obliterated by bad weather or other track activity. Same goes for the hunter.........you could be following a blood trail but if the animal is not sufficiently wounded as to slow it down significantly? That animal could travel 20 miles through rough terrain, and be healing the whole time he is doing it. Most hunters will simply give up after 4-5 miles....... or bad weather, etc will obliterate the track way. The longer it takes the less the odds get in favor of the tracker. That's why scent hounds are brought in often times, they don't need to follow a track way.........they follow scent through the terrain like a rope. I've watched my Redbones work a trackway often times being 20 feet off the track itself. They don't need to worry about shine or partial imprints, yadda yadda, they lock in and have you working the scent from weaker to stronger. Which means they are doing the task at a much faster pace than a human can using his brain and detective skills. An excellent book on tracking: The SAS guide to tracking by Bob Carss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 http://www.natureskills.com/tracking/sign-tracking/ is a start for beginner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyO Posted November 5, 2012 SSR Team Author Share Posted November 5, 2012 An excellent book on tracking: The SAS guide to tracking by Bob Carss What do you think has aroused these questions Norse ? Thanks for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 What do you think has aroused these questions Norse ? Thanks for your input. So you have read the book? I have it and often refer back to it. I really would like to be a better tracker than what I am now. It would be super cool to track a man through a giant field of rocks for a couple of miles and find him on the other side. I also watch in awe when seeing African natives work out tracks during safari. Their problem is not the lack of sign but the overwhelming overload of sign and yet they can track their particular animal through the maze of track ways and doggedly track him down and find him for a shot for their client. Finding one Kudu in a herd of 500 is like trying to find a needle in a stack of needles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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