BobbyO Posted November 16, 2012 SSR Team Share Posted November 16, 2012 I was listening to a month old podcast today at work ( don't tell my Boss ) with derekfoot who was talking about his ideas where Sasquatch populations on the OP were concerned. His estimation was probably 40 - 50 or so Animals ( but will be the first to ask people not to hold hi to that i'm sure ) and a couple of years back i made a post where i made a guestimate of around 100 - 200 Animals in WA State so Derek's 40 - 50 or so on the OP is very understandable to me. What i want to know is, and i'm talking WA State and small pockets of populations instead of grouping the US all together, if we are to believe for arguments sakes that Derek is on the money give or take 10 either way, is 40 - 50 animals in an approximate 100 mile x 100 mile area enough to keep a healthy breeding population going or would people think ( or know would be better ) that the OP animals would have to have interaction with other " clans " from other parts of WA and also maybe OR in order to keep a healthy breeding population ? Is this where the rogue male theories come into play possibly ? Anyone know the deal with inbreeding where other Primate species are concerned, such as Gorilla's, Bonobo's, Orang's and Chimps for example ? & lastly, has anyone got a rough idea of small population pockets from their own research area in WA and beyond of course ? Thanks in advance for any reply's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TexasTracker Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Bobby, I'm down in the Texas area. If you look at a google earth, there is a mountain range that stretches from around Mena Arkansas west into eastern Oklahoma. It's a few million acres of Ouchita National Forest and paper mill land (roughly 30miles X 60-70miles).... the area is pretty remote by our standards down here. The river systems through this area drain down into the Fouke area. I'm sure you're familiar with the history down that way. My point with all this background info is that our "little pockets" down here aren't nearly as vast as what you guys have. After a few years of investigating, I am confident there is a permanent population within the Ouchita mountain range and multiple areas of sporadic activity within a few hundred miles of that base. If I had to guess, I'd say there could possibly be multiple troops within the National Forest and a few scattered both south into Louisiana and north into northern Arkansas... I don't think they migrate down here. The weather is mild enough and there seems to be activity year round. So, guessing a troop to be somewhere from 6-10 animals, times 8-10 troops scattered throughout.... My guess would be about 60-80 animals... One of my biggest questions concerns how troops grow/expand. Do the maturing males get casted out to start their own troop? Does a core troop stay together. Do troops periodically run into/meet other troops? If so, what happens?? Individual troops breeding would have to widen the gene pool somehow I would think... As with every other aspect of this creature.... more questions than answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantor Posted November 16, 2012 Admin Share Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) Interesting, the SSRDB has 34 reports within a 50 mile radius of Ouachita NF (34.632078,-93.592529). Not even at all as far as time of year... Edited November 16, 2012 by gigantor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 This comment might be off the mark, but if any of these habituation stories are to be believed, there seems to be a high amount of females living in close proximity to humans. I believe this could be explained by assuming that females are not always given a range with the alpha males and are pushed to less desirable locations. i.e. near human settlements. This might not be a problem in remote parts, but IMHO might be seen in more populous regions of the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Way low numbers, IMO.....but any guess is a shot in the dark. I'd like to see what J. Myoszinski's guess would be.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyO Posted November 16, 2012 SSR Team Author Share Posted November 16, 2012 For the Olympic Peninsula and the Counties of Clallam, Island, Kitsap, Jefferson, Grays Harbor and Mason there are 104 BRFO Reports, going back decades however. I'll have a look over the weekend of that area you said TT, thanks for a nice post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wild eyed willy Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I think that the populations would have to intermingle and I also think there might be several familiy group within close proximity in places where the cover and food are abundant. It would not surprise me to find out they migrate at times during the year and cross paths with other groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyO Posted November 16, 2012 SSR Team Author Share Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) Way low numbers, IMO.....but any guess is a shot in the dark. I'd like to see what J. Myoszinski's guess would be.. On what do you base that opinion on though KC ? Why wouldn't pockets of land like the OP for example, given it's size ( roughly 100 miles x 100 miles give or take ), have that kind of population ? Would you really think there'd be way more ( if those numbers are way too low, that must mean you think there'd be way more ) than 50 animals on the Olympic Peninsula ? If we tallied up WA, i'd say we have 5 core areas with definite populations, Olympic Peninsula, North Cascades area from Alpine Lakes going up to the Canadian Border/Mt Baker, out East including Pend Orielle/Colville National Forest, Gifford Pinchot National Forest and all within the Rainier > St Helens > Adams > Columbia River/Hood volcano diamond area and down near the Blue Mountains and the Walla Walla area. 50 + 50 + 50 + 50 + 50 = 250 animals give or take. Would you still say that that estimate is way too low ? Bearing in mind that's just WA State alone. I think that's a pretty ok kind of number given we're talking about that number of animals pretty well spread out covering all corners of just over 70,000 square miles, certainly not too low, but maybe on the high side. Edited November 16, 2012 by BobbyO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 (edited) I'd guess around 300 in Oregon alone, based on sightings in my very populated county alone - others counties have much fewer people and lots more wilderness. I'd guess similar numbers for WA, CA and BC - each. Not to mention Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, each of which have large chunks of land too. And Canada. And Alaska. That's a lot of square miles. Edited November 17, 2012 by madison5716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Interesting, the SSRDB has 34 reports within a 50 mile radius of Ouachita NF (34.632078,-93.592529). Not even at all as far as time of year... Not to read too much into that.... but it seems they spend spring break in Cancun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wudewasa Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Where do people get population numbers for a species that is said to exist in most of North America but has never been scientifically described? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyO Posted November 17, 2012 SSR Team Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 It's explained clearly in the opening post W, it's called a guesstimate. It's a guess of an estimate. & i didn't start the thread to question the " said to exist.... " part, some of us are beyond that stage and wouldn't mind, for once, to have a thread that's not questioning the existence of the animal, but actually trying and attempting to possibly understand parts of it by hopefully sharing ideas and infomation.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TexasTracker Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Gigantor, I have a few "friends" that live in that vicinity that have activity on a regular basis... Seems like the most active times down here are Oct/Nov and then again around Jan/Feb....I think it's just too **** hot in mid-summer down here... Many, many folks in that part of the country could care less about the BFRO, or the internet for that matter. I love the database, and the BFRO's database, but It certainly has a more limited history and participation down here than you guys in the PNW. Finding someone that opens up to "outsiders" is a real treat. If you make some friends, the door opens and the local stories flow. There are sections of Arkansas that have their own local investigators. Any of you guys familiar with Tal Branco? I think he's on this forum from time to time. He's an old salt and lives right in the middle of this activity. I would really like to here his guesstimates here. I think I remember Meldrum giving an estimate before of something like 1000-1200 for all of North America.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantor Posted November 17, 2012 Admin Share Posted November 17, 2012 (edited) I'm just posting the numbers we have, that's all. They are not just BFRO reports, it includes reports from all groups collected by Mangani in his google earth layer. I think he's gotten most of the publicly available data. You may disagree with it and I understand that, but it is what it is... I do hope more researchers will share their data once they see the usefulness of the SSRDB, it's only been in existence for 6 months. Part of that effort is to show it to the community... BobbyO, if we were to assume 1 BF per 100 sq/miles, then for a 70,000 sq/mi territory, there should be 700 BFs. Flashman: Or the witnesses spend spring break in Cancun Edited November 17, 2012 by gigantor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wudewasa Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Then there are accounts that I've heard from folks that say that these creatures are becoming very common due to our anthropogenic contributions to the environment. Tales about them living next to dumps where forest and water are abundant, going through dumpsters and raiding crops for food, unseen by most people. So all of these accounts are stories until proven otherwise, and some of these stories are very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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