Population Pockets

[Guest COGrizzly]

Can you provide a link to the report? I'm dying to read it!

I cannot provide a link because it is not on the Net. It's a face to face report I took from almost 4 years ago, to the day. I've also spoke with 5 others who had no desire to post them online.

My roommate at the time worked with her. She heard Kari talking about what she saw to another co-worker. So, knowing I had an interest in such a thing she asked if I could contact her. Kari said it would be ok.

Kari and her BF went Christmas tree hunting south of Eagle. You can purchase a tree permit for 8 bucks and cut one down straight from the forest in designated areas. It wasn't a "tree farm". So, they go towards Sylvan Lakes and about a mile before, they stop and scope out some trees. This was the first week of December, 2008. There is an aspen grove just across the road. It starts snowing on and off, a "snow squall". It had also snowed heavily the day before. As they are cutting the tree down, they both notice movement on the opposite side of the road, in the aspen grove, on a relatively steep hill. They both saw a figure on 2 feet, walking, heavily haired from head to toe a reddish-brown color. It was walking on the steep, aspen grove side through 2-3 feet of snow. She said it "glided" on the sidehill like it was level ground - with incredible ease. She also noted the very long arms and the fact that they swung, almost as if the creature was reaching for something. They watched it for about 30 seconds before it went out of sight above the aspen hill.

Bastetcats could tell you EXACTLY where this is. She's heard of several sightings over the years in the same area. Heck, stories in this general area date back to the late 1800's and the Lake Creek Monster.

Here's the funny part of the story for me. She had never even heard of the PGF, the BFRO, or (heavens!) the BFF! She had heard the names Bigfoot and Sasquatch, but basically had no idea that people had stories on the internet. She didn't ever watch any video's of any bigfoot, but when she demonstrated the arm swing, it was much like Paddy. She was in her early 20's, had the most amazing green eyes I have ever seen, was super sweet and down to earth, and had a fabulous rump. She moved to Ft Collins and went back to school. I told this story on the BFF1.0. Perhaps some of the old-timers remember it. Man, those eyes....

The Gore Range needs to be clear cut. Over a million acres brown or grey. Granby has a similiar problem. Did you guys know that over 100,000 trees fall in one day in Colorado? That goes to show you how much forest is in the state...cause I've never seen one of them fall.

[Guest DWA]

^^^^That's enough for me. THANKS!

[Guest COGrizzly]

Kfoster and BastetCats have a reason to think that Sasquatch use the Eagle river as a side walk. A year after the tracks in Eagle were found, this happened -

http://www.bfro.net/...ort.asp?id=3636

"As I rounded a long curve in the highway my headlights hit two figures walking in the middle of the Colorado River. My first thought was, "Oh no, these people have wrecked in the river and they're trying to cross back to the highway."

I started to pull my Jeep to the side of the road and when I got even with them I saw two fuzzy looking people with very long arms walking down river. I could only see them from the knees up but it was obvious they were human in shape, upright, with elbows and knee

This guy saw 2 of them, one smaller, walking in the river. he confused it by saying the Colorado river, but he meant the Eagle (they converge not far from where this happened. I knew who this guy was. He worked at the info center in Vail. Told just about every tourist of his bigfoot sightings and was fired. He kinda went off the deep end.

[BobbyO]

She was in her early 20's, had the most amazing green eyes I have ever seen, was super sweet and down to earth, and had a fabulous rump. She moved to Ft Collins and went back to school. I told this story on the BFF1.0. Perhaps some of the old-timers remember it. Man, those eyes....

COG, are you still describing the Sasquatch or the Girl who told you the story ??

[Guest DWA]

COG, are you still describing the Sasquatch or the Girl who told you the story ??

Hey, not everybody does that man-so-graceful-so-beautiful-so...thing with Patty...

Edited November 29, 2012 by DWA

[Guest COGrizzly]

Man, was Kari a "looker"! And road quads. So, yes, I immediately had a crush on her.

[Explorer]

Why would they lie to you, as they have nothing to gain from it, but much to lose if they are viewed negatively by the public. They also now fear that if sasquatch is deemed to be extant that the Federal Government will close the area to all hunting. I am currently running into this big-time with some of the guides and outfitters I am talking to Colorado about sasquatch and about grizzly bears. Imagine you are Joe the Outfitter and your hunting area where you take paying clients is within the South San Juan Wilderness. You have large amounts of money invested in horses, tack, tents, wranglers and such and are dependant upon getting our clients a big bull elk or a nice mule deer. Now imagine that sasquatch or grizzlies are deemed officially extant right there where you have official rights to take those paying clients, your bread and butter to feed your family. In that area of Colorado, I am now running into extreme resistance from them to share info with me in regards to grizzlies, sasquatch or wolves. They have realized the consequences of their open mouths now and even if one of them shot a grizzly or a sasquatch by accident, you and I and no offiicial would ever hear about it, I am 100% sure. I know those people down there. They call it, "shoot, shovel, and shutup". I'm lucky to have got from the hunting guides what I have got. I don't suppose I will get any more from them, no matter what happens or how close a sasquatch gets to them. Not that sightings by them and their clients will stop, only that they don't want the Feds to know about any grizzlies or sasquatch in their areas. Kind of like what happened with logging entities in the Pacific Northwest in the 70's till now. Shut up or you are fired. Why do you think Ray Wallace tried to say he was hoaxing all the tracks across the west? To him, sasquatch was a threat to his income, like a barred owl. Wallace made some stupid wooden feet that didn't even really match any known real casts of sasquatch tracks and yet the fricking idiot media are all agoogle that Wallace was the one who made all of them. Give me a break.

What happens to CDOW income from elk and deer hunting permits if sasquatch is deemed extant in Colorado? How does it effect their own state funded jobs dependant upon those permits? Does CDOW worry about Federal actions within the state of Colorado? Though the very management being done by CDOW to try to ensure a good wild ungulate population for hunting also ensures a good population of them for the extant predators, the problem is when the federal government gets involved it is excessive and allknowing, unfortunately it is also allknowingly wrong. Local managers are much better, such as CDOW itself. Why would CDOW want the USFWS/EPA involved in any decisions? USFWS/EPA are desk bound managers of things they have no idea on for the most part. I have been on committees with them in a professional manner and know this sad fact. Some are okay in USFWS, most have no clue, and it is getting worse annually. EPA is completely clueless of late and only after a paycheck paid by you the taxpayer. I was chosen for some committees on wildlife subjects because of my knowledge of such subjects, and can speak to the fact because of working with local, state and federal officials on those subjects of management. CDOW seems to be doing a good job, but maybe protecting itself and the state of Colorado on some subjects, as I suppose they deem appropriate. Some subjects just not talked openly about for a reason. Just like the hunting guides and their employer outfitters are getting more quiet all the time. Trust me on the guide and outfitter thing, as I have it from the horses mouth on that subject. The CDOW reluctance to bring up the subject of sasquatch or grizzlies in Colorado is more subjective, but I did have contacts within that steered me toward some of those conclusions. Shoot, shovel and shutup, or we are screwed. I am facinated by sasquatch and it's very real tracks and likely very real sightings by LEO and professional outdoorsman too much to shut up, shoot or shovel. Care for the forest, leave some space, log in moderation and watch the wonderful ungulate habitat regrow in logging areas, watch forest fire areas regrow into wonderful habitat, build in human spaces and not in sasquatch spaces, don't give out too many or too few deer and elk permits, learn from your wildlife management mistakes, and keep some space for sasquatch, please.

This is a fascinating proposition.

There will be winners and losers if biologists/zoologists acknowledge the existence of BF in the North American forests.

However it is hard to tell who exactly will be the winners and the losers.

Maybe we all can win with real federal budgets for the study and protection of BF and better guidance given to backpackers, hunters, and forestry workers.

A lot of the attitude from hunting outfitters, wildlife management offices, and national forests offices are based on their assumptions on potential scenarios about how the species will be protected.

But we don’t really know.

I just read the Hoopa Project book about the situation in Northern CA, and in that area Paulides found two opposite responses to the presence of BF.

On one hand, the District Ranger of the Six Rivers National Forest believes that as long as BF brings recreation and interest to the district, he was supporting the staff biologist to spend time on the subject. (Paulides, p 54).

This makes sense since more tourists will visit their forests and wilderness areas with the hope of spotting a BF.

On the other hand, “the Tribal Forestry Management Group is concerned about Bigfoot becoming a protected species and what that designation would bring to the organization.

If Bigfoot is deemed endangered, then it is possible that the tribal forestry lands could become protected, and this may have a profound effect on their ability to cut and harvest their landsâ€. (Paulides, Page 290)

Not sure why much has to change since no hunters are hunting BF, and existing wilderness areas appear to be good habitat and are already protected.

I think people just fear the unknown and what could happen to their business.

IMHO, these hunting outfitters in CO appear to be over reacting, even though I fully understand their fear of loosing their livelihood.

I have not heard about this behavior happening with hunting outfitters in CA (but who knows maybe it is happening quietly).

And I hope that when they say shoot, shovel, and shut – they mean Grizzly’s and not BF.

I am with Norseman on this one, we only need one BF body and then no more.

[Guest COGrizzly]

^^ I think you make some valid points.

CO is stil VERY different from CA in so many ways - still in this day. Camping in the NF is different, travelling between states is different, many more transients/homeless even in N cali...etc. When I travelled through CA (northern) I could not believe how many "rules" there were.

Wilderness is a good portion of what Keith is describing - already protected - good point.

Fear the unknown - exactly - happens all the time in every facet of life.

SS & S in Co and WY is typically used for the wolf.

[norseman]

^^ I think you make some valid points.

CO is stil VERY different from CA in so many ways - still in this day. Camping in the NF is different, travelling between states is different, many more transients/homeless even in N cali...etc. When I travelled through CA (northern) I could not believe how many "rules" there were.

Wilderness is a good portion of what Keith is describing - already protected - good point.

Fear the unknown - exactly - happens all the time in every facet of life.

SS & S in Co and WY is typically used for the wolf.

Up in the PacNW "tripleS" could very well include Griz and Cougars too......and the occasional out of season Black Bear that cannot keep his head out of the garbage can.

Also...........the "safety police" states include the three touching the coast. The intermountain west is well..........still the west.

I live only 30 miles from Idaho and cannot WAIT for the day that I give the ranch to the kids and retire there........first thing I'm doing is buying a mating pair of Blue ticks.

And try this on for size..........outfitters could cash in big time on the discovery. How? Sell Bigfoot eco tourism trips....... Hop on a mule's back with a picnic lunch and go ride some trails lookin for tracks to cast and hoping for that rare glimpse. Make sure your camera is ready Mamasan!!!

[gigantor]

.first thing I'm doing is buying a mating pair of Blue ticks.

You lost me there Norseman, please explain...

[Guest BFSleuth]

I think Norseman is referring to Blue Tick Hounds. Athletic and dedicated hunting dogs.

[Guest]

Professional outdoorsmen represent a very small portion of the overall population of humans visiting Colorado forests or the general population of Colorado itself. Yet by percentage they have the highest incidence of sightings of sasquatch in that state. Either professional hunting guides lie at a phenominally higher rate than the general population or they are worse at wildlife identification than the general population of forest users. One of those must be true if sasquatch is only a myth, if one has any use of mental logic whatsoever.

My cousin was a hunting guide in BC and he guided for nearly twenty years. He himself claims a BF sighting near Hedley BC some twenty years ago, he still stands by it to this day. believe me, I press him on it all the time. Because of that sighting, he's been asking other guides and 'outdoorsmen' about anything BF whenever he can bring the topic up, yet in all these years, not once has anyone he's asked come forward and admitted that they've seen anything that could be BF related...and most don't even take it seriously. Maybe they don't want to admit something, I suppose that could be possible, maybe it could taint their reputations as hunting guides, it's a pretty competitive industry...but why hold back? Especially when they guy asking is an open believer? Sure, they've often heard stories, but that is what these are...stories. The east and west Kootenays and the Bella Coola should be prime areas for BF, and this is where he did the majority of his guiding...yet in all his asking around, no fellow eye witnesses. Why, because BF is more than likely just a mythical creature. Just like Mothman and lake monsters.

I used to believe, and did so for a lot of years (until I found these forums). My cousin's story fuelled my fire for a long time...it still even makes me rethink my side of the fence sometimes. But the reality is, if BF were real, it would be old news to the scientific community by now. When you have people believing BF exists in almost every state and province in North America, you have a lot of people doing a lot of wishful thinking. At some point you have to wonder if you yourself aren't just falling into the same 'I wanna believe' category (referring to myself). Once I came to that realization, it opened the door to becoming the sceptic I am today. Flame away, but it still won't make BF real! Just sayn'!

[Guest poignant]

I think the reasoning is that BF is more intelligent than bears or cougars, thus the species requires less offspring...

Reproductive K-strategists versus r-strategists: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R/K_selection_theory

I've noted with mild bemusement that in some reports of male sasquatch, the scrotum is grapefruit sized. Among the great apes, this suggests that sperm competition is strong within the species and that many males mate with many females (highly promiscuous). I would not be surprised if younger males roamed and mated with whichever pockets of females they could find (and thus reduce inbreeding).

kfoster: I agree that baby squatches that are not yet mobile but no longer in constant need of attention might be deposited high up in trees while the mother forages. If the video of a baby squatch in the craw of a tree is to be believed, that's one piece of evidence supporting this theory. When in doubt, look up.

[Guest Cowlitz2]

BobbyO

Reported Sightings - You have done some of the best BF tracking of WA sightings I have seen, and show seasonal data by elevation. BF migrates somewhat with the seasons.

Food Source - The next major variable is food source which of course affects family location. Our WA State orchards, streams (fish), deer/elk populations, wild food (berries, veggies, etc), refuge/dumpster, etc. locations are known and are (I guess) public info.

Hair Sampling - Is there hair sampling program/data available that could be correlated to WA State? (Case in point, like Scott Carpenter in TN is doing). If yes then perhaps this could be used to eventually assist in determining family group sizes by way of DNA?

I like the thought of rogue males going off to establish their own territory....that is common to several larger animal species and also we humans, especially in our past history. That would be important to maintain a healthy cross-breeding population.

Please excuse me if these are all Duh statements...or just ridiculous. I like the approach and realize given 3 or more semi-reliable data points, that a good statistician good likely draw reasonable conclusions. Thanks for this thread...GT

[BobbyO]

BobbyO

Hair Sampling - Is there hair sampling program/data available that could be correlated to WA State? (Case in point, like Scott Carpenter in TN is doing). If yes then perhaps this could be used to eventually assist in determining family group sizes by way of DNA?

Cheers Cowlitz, i appreciate what you say..

These Guys are doing the closest to what you've asked about, and are involved with both the Ketchum and Sykes studies.

http://www.olympicproject.com/

Edited December 2, 2012 by BobbyO