Minnesota Howls-23 Minutes

[southernyahoo]

I am raising major big eyebrows at anyone who thinks that everything on here can be reasonably laid to known animals. If some of these aren't sasquatch, you will not be able to tell me what they are.

Depends on whether you are listening to the file in it's true form. Most if not all the howls are from a canine in my opinion, and they are presented at around 65% of their "normal" speed.

As presented

2MinnHowls.wav

Speed corrected to what I think normal is.

2Minn.Howls@170%.wav

I think there was a goof in transfer off the recorder to a computer.

[Guest]

NorthernLights,

If Audacity can open open your files, you should be able to have the option to "Save as ...", where you can let Audacity save the file to your computer. I personally prefer to use CoolEdit Pro, an older program, but it still opens just about any audio file I can lay my hands on, on any device, and I can then save the file to my computer for editing/post-production, later.

Audacity DOES have a bit of a learning curve, as does all audio processing software, but it works pretty darned good for a free program. Monongahela has some excellent tutorials, and if you have any questions, he is more than happy to help you out.

[Guest DWA]

Depends on whether you are listening to the file in it's true form. Most if not all the howls are from a canine in my opinion, and they are presented at around 65% of their "normal" speed.

As presented

2MinnHowls.wav

Speed corrected to what I think normal is.

2Minn.Howls@170%.wav

I think there was a goof in transfer off the recorder to a computer.

I'm still hearing what is clearly a wide-open "aaaaaaahhhh" sound at the end of each howl, something definitely not characteristic of any canid.

And when we start doing dueling tape speeds...well...

The howls that sounded interesting to me still do. Can't do anything with any piece of evidence like this, however, without solid field follow-up to get more evidence of what's making the sounds.

Here's my big question: what does Thomas Steenburg think? He debunked a pretty well-known recording by actually observing a coyote making the sound. I don't think I ever heard the recording in question. But Steenburg would add something to this.

[checked and answered my own question. The "Chehalis sounds" were formerly considered potential sasquatch vocalisations, until Steenburg and an associate witnessed a coyote making the sounds. They are odd sounds indeed, but like nothing on the MN recordings.]

Edited November 24, 2012 by DWA

[southernyahoo]

I'm still hearing what is clearly a wide-open "aaaaaaahhhh" sound at the end of each howl, something definitely not characteristic of any canid.

This is something that would need better quantification. But canids do something similar.

Here's one of my better recordings of a coyote outbreak. I'll focus on the first howl as I think it is relevant.

TexasCoyotes.mp3

The first howl with a bandpass filter to remove insect noise.

TexasCoyote.wav

Here it is at 65%

TexasCoyote65%.wav

Here is the Texas howl and a Minn. howl together Texas howl is at 65%

MinnTexashowls.wav

Now I can take the two together and increase pitch until the Texas howl is restored. This occured at 155%

MinnTexashowls155%.wav

My opinion is that I'm probably comparing Wolf to coyote howls and both are very likely canine, The Minn. howl is still longer and the ahh is drawn out a little more but still very similar.

[Guest DWA]

This is something that would need better quantification. But canids do something similar.

Here's one of my better recordings of a coyote outbreak. I'll focus on the first howl as I think it is relevant.

TexasCoyotes.mp3

The first howl with a bandpass filter to remove insect noise.

TexasCoyote.wav

Here it is at 65%

TexasCoyote65%.wav

Here is the Texas howl and a Minn. howl together Texas howl is at 65%

MinnTexashowls.wav

Now I can take the two together and increase pitch until the Texas howl is restored. This occured at 155%

MinnTexashowls155%.wav

My opinion is that I'm probably comparing Wolf to coyote howls and both are very likely canine, The Minn. howl is still longer and the ahh is drawn out a little more but still very similar.

I'm still hearing a quality in several of the MN howls that I'm not hearing in any of the coyote sounds. And then, yeah, you have to address the speed issue. They can tell us clean as the driven snow, but the question remains.

Which is why, when it comes down to it, follow-up at the site is what matters. If you get nothing better than this, it won't matter, other than a cool recording. Of whatever-it-was.

(And I should make clear that I am raising "major eyebrows" at anyone who listens to this; goes; nothing to see here, next, and walks away. Which is not what you are doing; and even those involved in getting this up aren't ruling out wolves.)

Edited November 24, 2012 by DWA

[Guest FootDude]

Depends on whether you are listening to the file in it's true form. Most if not all the howls are from a canine in my opinion, and they are presented at around 65% of their "normal" speed.

As presented

2MinnHowls.wav

Speed corrected to what I think normal is.

2Minn.Howls@170%.wav

I think there was a goof in transfer off the recorder to a computer.

You can hear several faint wolf/coyote howls in the background during the recording so there was no 'goof' in the transfer.

[southernyahoo]

That was probably a pup coyote or wolf. Slow play makes them sound adult.

[Guest DWA]

You can hear several faint wolf/coyote howls in the background during the recording so there was no 'goof' in the transfer.

Didn't think of that. You're right.

That was probably a pup coyote or wolf. Slow play makes them sound adult.

I'd consider it unlikely in the extreme that a pup would sound, but no adults in that distant group, at any point. if it's a distant call, as those were, it's almost certainly not a pup.

They say that no goofs happened. I have to take their word for it unless there is clear evidence that there were.

As I said, we can't rule it out. Which is the essential problem with anything like this.

[TD-40]

If you have some time and want to compare interesting audio:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoOe25bOmMM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN2v0qFKPFk

I wanted to add these to this discussion for comparison to the MN recording. There are similarities between all of them.

[Guest]

why does it have to be wolves ? (if assuming canine)

What about regular old dogs... ?

Here's two great examples of similar to what i heard lots of on the recording...

First one- skip to the 1:28 mark for the howling...

2nd clip, relevant howling starts at :08 seconds...

Fire whistles, police sirens, and TRAIN HORNS have been known to set them off howling...

Yea I'll be honest, there was some funky stuff in that recording, the smacking noises, and some of the howls did indeed sound "different", and while I enjoyed listening to it, and found the howls to be haunting, regardless of their origin, the best that we could say it that its possible...

Thanks for putting it up for discussion though, and please pass along our kind regards to the person who took the recording...

These are not domestic dogs. As mentioned domestic dogs would not have the depth. Sled dogs are numerous in northern minnesota but sound nothing like wolves. Not to mention with our wolf population here in Minnesota the more north you get the more wolves, so much that at times your more likely to hear wolves howl than dogs.

[southernyahoo]

Here's a segment of the file at 170% which includes the distant calls. Those calls are definately still in the range of a smaller canine. The train horn is the only thing in the this file that should have a constant pitch in the recording. So if subsequent recordings of that can be had, we would have a key so long it is a regular train through that area and it's horn can be demonstrated to be consistent. The call at the end of this file is the only part of the whole file that is new to me as canine. I've heard them do some weird yodleing and oscilating calls but that last call is almost artificial to my ear.

MinHowls-distantcalls@170%.mp3

[bipedalist]

At 1:37 what is the little "yawwww, yawwwww" coming into play? Also, are there rain droplets falling in some of the more silent sections? Are you saying this recording has been "slowed" and that the train whistle is distorted as well as the howls as a result?

[southernyahoo]

BP. right now I'm going with the idea the file is not tampered with but captured at the wrong playback speed. This would make all sounds uniformly lower in pitch, longer and slower in repetition like foot steps, drops hitting the ground etc. There was reportedly a light snow on the ground and there may have been some melt off falling from the trees. The yawww sounds are faint, but will listen closer.

[Guest FootDude]

BP. right now I'm going with the idea the file is not tampered with but captured at the wrong playback speed. This would make all sounds uniformly lower in pitch, longer and slower in repetition like foot steps, drops hitting the ground etc. There was reportedly a light snow on the ground and there may have been some melt off falling from the trees. The yawww sounds are faint, but will listen closer.

In the 8:30-12 minutes section between :46 and 2:20'ish, the train whistles are fairly distinct. Used as a reference they seem to be the right expected tone and frequency which would indicate that the recording was made at the correct speed. Also at 2:15-2:19 of the same section, there is a very distinct though more distant canine howl which is also at the expected frequency.

There are also scattered barred owl calls and much fainter wolf vocalizations scattered throughout the tape, which also seem to be the be in the expected frequency ranges for those animals.

Using the known sounds as references, they The recognized reference sounds all seem to indicate the recording was made at the proper speed and we are hearing the correct realtime frequencies for the vocalizations.

Edited November 26, 2012 by FootDude

[Guest thermalman]

Agreed.