Guest Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Previously you said that Meldrum observed this same dynamic toe and foot movement in the tracks. Meldrum wasn't onsite, he had to have seen it after the fact, therefore it was documented and can be presented. No, I said Meldrum has seen the same in trackways that he personally has observed, NOT that he saw them at BCM. I didn't call him a liar, so far you are the only one saying that. I did no such thing, and I expect a retraction of that statement. I said I would need to see dynamic toe and foot movement to be convinced. Accusations by you won't change that. Because you refuse to accept the testimony of a person who DID see them and see such. Unless you have a time machine handy, we have to go with best evidence, and that is what Mr Green has to say, absent any concrete evidence against his observations. Good evidence? You have a second hand statement that one person adopted by Wallace said that the others approached him to lie about it and that he felt upset Wallace's family was ruining Wallace's reputation. Wallace's reputation? That, plus their demonstrated inablility to fake trackways using the claimed method (wooden stompers running behind a slow vehicle). We have the changing story from wood stompers to concrete feet and fancy cable rigging. We have the timeline that places the alleged stompers AFTER the release of the Titmus "enhanced" casts (which is what the stompers roughly resemble, NOT the original Titmus tracks). In the case of Bob H, we have multiple versions of what kind of suit it supposedly was. We have the "hole" story, and others. Amazingly, this is put forward by the same people that have said nobody could be fooled by the fake casts Wallace was making and selling from his shop or the various letters he wrote to Green with fantastic stories of sasquatch that nobody would believe. Which, if you'd bothered to read what Mr Green said he never took seriously to begin with. So I suppose now the stance has changed on Wallace, he wasn't a hoaxer and prankster who enjoyed making people laugh on a constant basis and had wooden feet that look just like the tracks, but instead all of his casts were truly from a sasquatch, and all of his wild stories were true, and his family turned on him and ruined his reputation and made the wooden feet themselves. They went so far as to find these Onion Mtn. images showing the ridge in the heel and carved a crack that corresponds to it in the wooden feet. The films and photos they claimed were Wallace's wife in an ape suit were really of a real sasquatch. Mr Green clearly states that he never took any of that seriously to begin with. Stop misrepresenting what Mr Green said. You truly have no shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BitterMonk Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) Because you refuse to accept the testimony of a person who DID see them and see such. Mulder this is where your bias shows through and it is a fatal flaw in your arguing. You can choose to believe that Green witnessed what he claimed, but you can't assert a fact based on his testimony alone. Unless you have a time machine handy, we have to go with best evidence, and that is what Mr Green has to say, absent any concrete evidence against his observations. The best evidence are the photos and casts, which seem to directly contradict some of Green's claims. You can choose to ignore that contradiction, just as you can choose to accept Green's testimony as being 100% true, but that won't sway many people. You truly have no shame. Attack the argument, not the arguer. Edited February 18, 2011 by BitterMonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolftrax Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I did no such thing, and I expect a retraction of that statement. Not a chance, you keep saying it, such as here: It is cynical and dishonorable to all but openly call a man a liar for no good reason and without any counter evidence simply because he didn't document everything to YOUR satisfaction. I said let's see the dynamic foot movement. You are the only one who talked about openly calling a man a liar. That's your words, not mine. No, I said Meldrum has seen the same in trackways that he personally has observed, NOT that he saw them at BCM. Oh, ok, so that's not really relevant. Because you refuse to accept the testimony of a person who DID see them and see such. Unless you have a time machine handy, we have to go with best evidence, and that is what Mr Green has to say, absent any concrete evidence against his observations. I am not convinced the tracks showed dynamic foot movement because there is no support for that besides a statement, however comparison of the tracks to the fake feet so support that those feet did make the tracks. That, plus their demonstrated inablility to fake trackways using the claimed method (wooden stompers running behind a slow vehicle). We have the changing story from wood stompers to concrete feet and fancy cable rigging. We have the timeline that places the alleged stompers AFTER the release of the Titmus "enhanced" casts (which is what the stompers roughly resemble, NOT the original Titmus tracks) And you know the feet don't resemble the original Titmus tracks how? In the case of Bob H, we have multiple versions of what kind of suit it supposedly was. We have the "hole" story, and others. And that has what to do with the Onion Mtn. tracks? Mr Green clearly states that he never took any of that seriously to begin with. Stop misrepresenting what Mr Green said. You truly have no shame. You do understand sarcasm don't you? Of course Green never said that anything Wallace said or did was the truth, Wallace had a long running reputation as a hoaxer and prankster. Why then would it be brought up that his family lied and trashed his reputation? Wallace hoaxing those tracks fits right IN to his reputation. Chill out Mulder, you take this stuff way too seriously and personally. Do yourself a favor, actually go out and look at this stuff, the evidence, instead of just parroting what somebody has told you. Sasquatch will not die if those tracks happened to be made by Wallace, or the Skookum cast was made by an elk, or the Onion Mtn. casts exhibit casting artifacts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fenris Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 So he's just incompetent to report his observations then...and that's any better? lose the complex, hes getting on in years and remembering things from a loooooooooooong time ago, he's guilty of the heinous crime of being human, nothing more. Bob H, Wallace family...need I go on? One an accused hoaxer the others likely involved same, really? My observation of your arguments is that they are full of hypocritical double standards and differing levels of demanded support, favoring the "skeptical" position. Bulls**********t, I'm not a skeptic, I just dont believe everytghing I see and here. JC put it very, I believe Ive seen bigfoot, its the footers I question (Poetic license taken) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 OK, peoples.....a friendly reminder. Let's not let our posts get personal. Debate the debate, not the debater. Or for you others......... Argue the argument, not the arguer. Thanks for your cooperation, Splash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitakaze Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 You have before you Mr Green's own words as to what he and the others saw. No, BobH claims he was there...therefore: claim. Not evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitakaze Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 The people who think the Blue Creek Mountain tracks could have been hoaxed never saw them' date=' of course.[/quote'] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thepattywagon Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I don't see any irony there, Kit. Green WAS there. That's a fact. Bob H CLAIMS he was at Bluff Creek, yet seems unable to prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitakaze Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 (edited) Green is making a claim unsupported by the documented evidence. So does Bob Heironimus. Green says other people back him up? So does Bob. [sHRILL BIGFOOTER MODE] ARE YOU CALLING THEM LIARS!?!?! [/sHRILL BIGFOOTER MODE] That's a joke, BTW. It's a big fat plate of delicious irony and the BCM hoax that duped Green, Dahinden, Abbott, Hodgson, Meldrum is a perfect example of actual denialism in Bigfootery. Luckily, as the poll shows, most of us know an obvious hoax when we see one. Edited February 19, 2011 by kitakaze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thepattywagon Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 However, footprints aside, at least we know that Green and company SAW the tracks they described. Bob H describes an event which he can't prove he was a part of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sallaranda Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 However, footprints aside, at least we know that Green and company SAW the tracks they described. Bob H describes an event which he can't prove he was a part of. Exactly. It'd be unfair to treat Heironemous' claim with any more validity than Patterson's or Gimlin's. There is little to no evidence to substantiate Bob H's story. Aside from a couple polygraph tests that were likely falsified, nothing places him at the scene of the PGF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fenris Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I don't see any irony there, Kit. Green WAS there. That's a fact. Bob H CLAIMS he was at Bluff Creek, yet seems unable to prove it. It kinda stinks of a derail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fenris Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Green is making a claim unsupported by the documented evidence. So does Bob Heironimus. Green says other people back him up? So does Bob. [sHRILL BIGFOOTER MODE] ARE YOU CALLING THEM LIARS!?!?! [/sHRILL BIGFOOTER MODE] That's a joke, BTW. It's a big fat plate of delicious irony and the BCM hoax that duped Green, Dahinden, Abbott, Hodgson, Meldrum is a perfect example of actual denialism in Bigfootery. Luckily, as the poll shows, most of us know an obvious hoax when we see one. wrong answer... you might just have an agenda... just an observation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BitterMonk Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 For the love of all that is Holy can we please have a thread that doesn't get derailed by an endless PGF debate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I don't think the code worked right northwind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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