The Kill Club

[norseman]

regardless of my opinions on killing animals, i think it is a bad idea. There are hunting accidents every year in almost every designated season for that particular animal despite tons of rules and regulations and safety precautions.

I don't want to see some young kid in a costume end up dead and some BF enthusiast getting hauled off to the slammer. One of the main rules of hunting is (positively ID the target). So i ask, how do you positively ID a target that has never conclusively been proven to exist?

How does a hunter from Florida go to Alaska and hunt Caribou? He has never seen a Caribou before but he has seen pictures of one. It's in no way different than Sasquatch. As far as hoaxing goes, you bring up a good point and something I have thought about extensively. The bottom line is that long range shots are out. I think a ambush at close range with a verbal warning before firing will weed out any hoaxers.

I don't want to get shot by some shmuck when i'm in the field trekking around in full camo because some guy thought i was a BF.

If you truly feel threatened by this then don't go into the field..............it's that simple. My right to carry a firearm with me into the field is guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment, and so is every other American as well..........that's alot of "shmucks".

Norseman,

I support your effort in spirit (and not in hunting ability which I have none).

I have a couple of questions for those of you who are BF hunters:

1) Have there been a real serious hunting expedition for BF ever?

I am aware of Peter Byrne's two tours (1960-62, and 1970-79) in looking for BF, but not sure if they had real hunting strategy.

I also aware of the recent work by TBRC but not sure if they are expert hunters/trackers. (I need to read more on their background and strategy).

If there have been no real effort ever, then no wonder there is no body.

2) How many folks in the BF community are really seriously searching and hunting for BF?

I read a lot of talk and bluster in this forum but very little action in execution except for TBRC. Maybe folks are doing it in secret to obtain fame and glory by themselves. But, IMHO, you need the collective help of a group of expert hunters and trackers who are committed and funded. No lone ranger is going to get this done. Maybe TBRC has the correct model for carryiing this out.

Sorry I can't help with hunting skills and tracking, but if you develop a serious plan for an expedition with good hunting/tracking team and need funding, I will help contribute to the fund.

1) As far as I'm aware Peter Byrne is a "bird watcher" which is code for a anti kill bigfoot proponent. The TBRC is pro kill even though they tap dance around the term in their statement here:

http://www.texasbigfoot.com/index.php/news/news/48-news/221

After reading it myself I would understand it that not all members are on board with the pro kill stance, but many of them are. The best chance we had of collecting a type specimen that I know of was none other than "Patty". Bob Gimlin covered Roger Patterson with a bolt action .30-06 rifle in his hands while the now famous film was being flimed by Roger.

2) I'm not so sure about this statement, although it stands to reason there are strength in numbers and that is why I started this thread. But look at Roger and Bob..........that was two guys, three horses, a rifle and a camera. Add to that one stock truck, and a wall tent and wood stove. We are not talking about a massive coordinated operation here at all. Again, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the large coordinated group is the WRONG route, only that I think there are multiple ways to skin a cat.

3) I appreciate your kindness, who knows what the future will bring? Right now I have all of the tools I need to solve this mystery, from logistics to armory...........I just need a little luck. But I'm just one guy doing this on my spare time.

One-kill policy for me.

However, if the DNA proves its worth and leads to official recognition, I'll go back to no-kill.

Driving would be an useful strategy except hunter safety comes to mind. Who knows? Maybe they're smart enough to lead hunters into a position where the risk of crossfire will render the use of guns nonviable.

It's really not an issue if the men involved are experienced. First of all? You would never set up your ambush point so that it would be possible for hunters to be caught in a crossfire. Secondly, nobody fires unless they are absolutely positively certain of their back stop. Number one is more military knowledge (L shape ambush good.........O shaped ambush very bad), and number two is just basic hunter's safety. I'd also have my brush beaters brightly clothed while my ambush team was camouflaged.

I have some theories on what caliber gun, and type of round etc- but those are personal preference type things, and not necessarily relevant to the discussion. Let's just say it would be high powered, and large caliber- something i know would knock it down with basically one shot. (probly a .458 Win-Mag would do nicely).

I think this is an important discussion Art, people need to be properly armed. Instead of naming my favorite I'll just list what I feel is a dang good close quarters, large bore rifle capable of bringing down large bear sized game.

Marlin Guide Gun:

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/bigbore/1895G.asp

Marlin Guide Guns on steroids:

http://www.wildwestguns.com/

M4 Platform .458 SOCOM:

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=251

M4 Platform .450 Bushmaster:

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-r-15/model-r-15-450-bushmaster.aspx

M4 Platform .50 Beowulf:

http://alexanderarms.com/index.php/products/50-beowulf.html

Browning BLR .450 Marlin:

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/finder.asp?f2=450%20Marlin&f1=003B&f4=&f3=&msrp=

Winchester Model 70 .458 Win mag:

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=001C&mid=535116

Now keep in mind, there is everything from Holland and Holland side by sides out there to 10 to 12 gauge shotguns with heavy slugs that could also do the job. There is also two surges currently going on, the one is the lever gun revolution that likes big bore, short barreled "quick" lever guns and the other is the popularity of using the M4 platform for serious big bore duty. But ultimately the rifle that a person can shoot safely, comfortably and accurately is the BEST one for the job. A .30-30 bullet to the heart is much more lethal than a .600 nitro express to the foot........you get the picture.

[gigantor]

Norseman, I'm with you.

I am pro-kill for one specimen to provide scientists the evidence they require to end the mystery once and for all.

I applaud your efforts and wish you good luck. Let me know if I can be of any help in your endeavor, some kind of technical support would be something I could contribute if you need it, just let me know. I'm pretty crafty at solving technical challenges and could perhaps help with funding.

I have full confidence in your skills and think that if anyone is going to collect a specimen, it will be somebody like you.

Edited December 16, 2012 by gigantor

[bigbear]

No offense but comparing someone from the south hunting caribou and or any other northern species to someone hunting Sasquatch is miles apart.

If you truly feel threatened by this then don't go into the field..............it's that simple. My right to carry a firearm with me into the field is guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment, and so is every other American as well..........that's alot of "shmucks".

^ You are missing the point here, Our second amendment doesn't give you a right to open fire on someone because you thought it was a bigfoot. Most states have laws that fall on top of the 2nd amendment. Here in Maryland, there is NO open carry of any fire arm out of a particular hunting season so have fun explaining why you are carrying a nitro express around in the woods and blew some poor guy in half with it. You can apply for concealed carry but that obviously excluded rifles and they are quite strict and out of state permits are not recognized and if you have unsecured firearm in vehicle with lets say PA conceal carry permit.... they can haul you in, and will.

In short, yes 2nd amendment, great!, but read the fine print and be willing to deal with consequences otherwise.

On other note, some states have BF on Protected NO hunt rules, not sure which ones.

[norseman]

No offense but comparing someone from the south hunting caribou and or any other northern species to someone hunting Sasquatch is miles apart.

No, it's exactly the same..........the hunter has never had any interaction with the animal in which he is hunting before. He is going off of a description....... African safari's will often simply give a hunter a book with pictures and pricing for each species.

^ You are missing the point here, Our second amendment doesn't give you a right to open fire on someone because you thought it was a bigfoot.

I'm not missing the point, your simply stating the obvious for whatever reason. But I will add the caveat that if your running around in the woods in a gorilla suit? I bet the shooter walks.....

Most states have laws that fall on top of the 2nd amendment. Here in Maryland, there is NO open carry of any fire arm out of a particular hunting season so have fun explaining why you are carrying a nitro express around in the woods and blew some poor guy in half with it. You can apply for concealed carry but that obviously excluded rifles and they are quite strict and out of state permits are not recognized and if you have unsecured firearm in vehicle with lets say PA conceal carry permit.... they can haul you in, and will.

I realize that many states back east have unconstitutional gun laws, obviously it is up to the INDIVIDUAL to check with local, state gun laws as well as fish and game laws for compliance.

On other note, some states have BF on Protected NO hunt rules, not sure which ones.

I'm not aware of any states that have bigfoot listed as a protected species......I'm aware of one county in Washington that does...........Skamania county. Again, up to the individual to be aware of the laws applicable to themselves and their activities.

Boiled down to brass tacks? Your concern that people will get hurt hunting Bigfoot is a non sequitor. People are already armed in the woods, either legally or illegally. People are harmed in the woods by either legal activity gone awry or by illegal nefarious acts of violence every day. I doubt this thread will contribute .00000001% to pushing the national statistics one way or another.

[Guest]

Norseman- Actually there are two counties in your state Sakmania and Whatcom co. that have regulations agianst shooting a Sasqatch. Also if the DNA comes back as close to a Homo hominin then what? Do you shot it anyways and hope your actions will go undetected?

Proving to the world that Sasquatch is real shouldn't be left to the individual for scientific explination IMO thats not how science works(going about and shooting and asking questions later), and the motive to prove once and far all is not a once and for all scenerio. Though I don't think you are acting with a malicious intent, just saying you may want to be a little more educated on the ramifications involved. I won't comment on your motive.

[Guest]

No offense but comparing someone from the south hunting caribou and or any other northern species to someone hunting Sasquatch is miles apart.

If you truly feel threatened by this then don't go into the field..............it's that simple. My right to carry a firearm with me into the field is guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment, and so is every other American as well..........that's alot of "shmucks".

^ You are missing the point here, Our second amendment doesn't give you a right to open fire on someone because you thought it was a bigfoot. Most states have laws that fall on top of the 2nd amendment. Here in Maryland, there is NO open carry of any fire arm out of a particular hunting season so have fun explaining why you are carrying a nitro express around in the woods and blew some poor guy in half with it. You can apply for concealed carry but that obviously excluded rifles and they are quite strict and out of state permits are not recognized and if you have unsecured firearm in vehicle with lets say PA conceal carry permit.... they can haul you in, and will.

In short, yes 2nd amendment, great!, but read the fine print and be willing to deal with consequences otherwise.

On other note, some states have BF on Protected NO hunt rules, not sure which ones.

I would never live in a state with these laws. Unconstitutional liberty thieves!

regardless of my opinions on killing animals, i think it is a bad idea. There are hunting accidents every year in almost every designated season for that particular animal despite tons of rules and regulations and safety precautions.

I don't want to see some young kid in a costume end up dead and some BF enthusiast getting hauled off to the slammer. One of the main rules of hunting is (positively ID the target). So i ask, how do you positively ID a target that has never conclusively been proven to exist?

I don't want to get shot by some shmuck when i'm in the field trekking around in full camo because some guy thought i was a BF.

Anyone in my neck of the woods in Oregon would be foolish to dress up like BF. I'm sure there are people that would do this, but my thoughts say this is the law of natural selection hard at work... If someone did get shot, shame on them...

[norseman]

Norseman- Actually there are two counties in your state Sakmania and Whatcom co. that have regulations agianst shooting a Sasqatch. Also if the DNA comes back as close to a Homo hominin then what? Do you shot it anyways and hope your actions will go undetected?

Proving to the world that Sasquatch is real shouldn't be left to the individual for scientific explination IMO thats not how science works(going about and shooting and asking questions later), and the motive to prove once and far all is not a once and for all scenerio. Though I don't think you are acting with a malicious intent, just saying you may want to be a little more educated on the ramifications involved. I won't comment on your motive.

Like I said in my first post? I'm not getting drawn into a pro kill vs. anti kill debate, which seems to be the direction you are headed. Every time we try to have a civilized discussion within the pro kill crowd about the subject we simply devout all of our time defending our position to nay sayers. It's tremendously unproductive and after many threads now extremely ad nauseum. I have nothing personal against someone anti kill and respect their position, all I ask is that they respect mine.

I will say this, if Bigfoot DNA proves to science there is a living species out there? Then obviously there is no longer a need for me to shoot one! At that point I would like to see Federal protection setup for the species.

[Guest]

You won't even find one... much less shoot and kill one (yawn).

[Guest]

Animals can be patterned, hunted then killed, some just require more effort.

I am no-kill, but if you are going to seriously go, then make sure you realize you just might be hunting another human-like person, so realize what that means to the hunt. Since they are better in the woods than YOU are, even under the best circumstances (since they live there 24/7), take adequate precautions and a well-trained team. And backup teams, and medics and then make sure you know what you are going to do next. It could be that YOU are the one who ends up being hunted. Do not go alone or with one other. Numbers might count.

What is your plan once you have shot it? How will you haul it out? How will you document it? Who will you call for assistance? Will you take pictures and video? If you get it out, will you send pieces for study? To whom? Do you have all that prearranged, so nothing is wasted? Will you try to keep it a secret? Are you going to go live online after you've shot it and post all the evidence you have? Will you turn it in to authorities? What if it's not dead when you have shot it? What if there is more than one??? What if you are outnumbered? Make sure your will and end of life paperwork is finished before you go, just in case (and I'm not joking or being facetious at all). Cover your bases.

Like I said, I'm no-kill but if one of you really does go out there with this intention, at least DO IT RIGHT and do it once. Don't mess it up so a dozen more have to be killed.

And I don't think you'll find one, but you never know, stranger things have happened.

[Bigtex]

I am definitely NO KILL because I have seen one very close, several near misses, and really don't care who believes me or if they believe that the creatures exist.

I used to feel differently, but strongly believe this creature should stay a Cryptid. Think about it, nothing good can really come from 'proof' except more controls & restrictions, is that what we really want?

I guarantee bodies have turned up several times over the centuries, but quickly disappear, and there will always be those that DO NOT want this creature to go 'public'.

Religious reasons had a higher calling in the past, but it's more about the money now I suspect.

Think of the money involved to legislate new laws & restrictions, enforcement, and what the heck would they say in the printed & on-line brochures for State & National Parks?

The Park's are for FAMILIES, and Bigfoot would be very bad for business!

Of course, if I was being attacked by a Bigfoot, then all bets are off, and blast away.

[Guest]

You won't even find one... much less shoot and kill one (yawn).

So, I guess we are all wasting our time?

[norseman]

I am definitely NO KILL because I have seen one very close, several near misses, and really don't care who believes me or if they believe that the creatures exist.

I used to feel differently, but strongly believe this creature should stay a Cryptid. Think about it, nothing good can really come from 'proof' except more controls & restrictions, is that what we really want?

I guarantee bodies have turned up several times over the centuries, but quickly disappear, and there will always be those that DO NOT want this creature to go 'public'.

Religious reasons had a higher calling in the past, but it's more about the money now I suspect.

Think of the money involved to legislate new laws & restrictions, enforcement, and what the heck would they say in the printed & on-line brochures for State & National Parks?

The Park's are for FAMILIES, and Bigfoot would be very bad for business!

Of course, if I was being attacked by a Bigfoot, then all bets are off, and blast away.

Again, I'm simply not interested in anti kill perspectives in this thread.....

[norseman]

I am no-kill, but if you are going to seriously go, then make sure you realize you just might be hunting another human-like person, so realize what that means to the hunt. Since they are better in the woods than YOU are, even under the best circumstances (since they live there 24/7), take adequate precautions and a well-trained team. And backup teams, and medics and then make sure you know what you are going to do next. It could be that YOU are the one who ends up being hunted. Do not go alone or with one other. Numbers might count.

First of all I want to say "thank you" for contributing to this thread despite your beliefs.

In short I have gone out, and I've gone by myself and I've gone with one other. I personally do not believe it's a human because it exhibits no traits associated with the genus Homo other than bipedalism. I'm a avid bear and cougar hunter and so I'm well versed in hunting something that can hunt you. I think what your envisioning is an entity that is larger than me and my close friends to go hunt Squatch...........which is cool, but it's just not reality at this time. But I do have a first aid kit.

What is your plan once you have shot it? How will you haul it out? How will you document it? Who will you call for assistance? Will you take pictures and video? If you get it out, will you send pieces for study? To whom? Do you have all that prearranged, so nothing is wasted? Will you try to keep it a secret? Are you going to go live online after you've shot it and post all the evidence you have? Will you turn it in to authorities? What if it's not dead when you have shot it? What if there is more than one??? What if you are outnumbered? Make sure your will and end of life paperwork is finished before you go, just in case (and I'm not joking or being facetious at all). Cover your bases.

1) My plan is to harvest the head, foot and hand from the carcass, lat/long the carcass, and head out to contact ISU.

2) It would depend on my mode of transportation, I utilize, horses/mules, hiking, four wheeler, jeep and a snowmobile. Restressing the point that I do not plan on taking the whole carcass in one go.

3) I do not plan on documenting it........I'll leave that for the pros.

4) Idaho State University/Jeff Meldrum

5) I'm not a big fan of photos and video......I'm sure it would look akin to "alien autopsy" and would convince NO ONE.

6) I will drive to Pocatello Idaho with a cooler.

7) Jeff Meldrum

I have Meldrum's dept phone number yes, and have talked with him through email before.

9) I would respect the wishes of Jeff Meldrum and ISU.

10) No

11) No

12) Shoot it again.

13&14) I will stand my ground and attempt to scare it/them off. If I'm charged in a life threatening situation, I will defend myself with lethal force.

Like I said, I'm no-kill but if one of you really does go out there with this intention, at least DO IT RIGHT and do it once. Don't mess it up so a dozen more have to be killed.

And I don't think you'll find one, but you never know, stranger things have happened.

I think a significant portion of a body would be sufficient to be a type specimen and species recognition. I really do not see the need for or support the killing of a dozen. Unless of course I'm attacked by "bigfoot" army and go out in a blaze of glory like some sort of Rambo movie. (that's not going to happen)

So, I guess we are all wasting our time?

He is probably right, it's certainly long on odds.........

But at least we can hold our head up and say we have tried to prove it's existence in the face of skeptics.

And there maybe hope as well, I've received emails as a result of this thread from people who have some very good ideas but felt intimidated to post them publicly. And this is the important part........networking with other pro kill advocates! And sharing ideas!

If anyone is reading this thread and feels intimidated to post here, please PM me instead, I would LOVE to hear what you have to say!

[Guest]

I wonder if anyone has tried setting up in remote valleys which contain pretty good cover and using a predator/distress call? It'd probably need to be done frequently for years before success was had, but it's one way to "cover" a lot of ground without killing yourself through physical exertion.

To all those worried about incurring physical harm via attack- I'm confident that with adequate firepower (IMO, not all that much is needed, a .270 would be plenty as I know from experience bipeds are much easier to drop than quads), and a few seconds to compose yourself (crucial in thick cover, close-quarters encounters as some unlucky brown bear hunters can attest to), any potential (though extremely unlikely) threat could be quickly nullified.

[norseman]

I wonder if anyone has tried setting up in remote valleys which contain pretty good cover and using a predator/distress call? It'd probably need to be done frequently for years before success was had, but it's one way to "cover" a lot of ground without killing yourself through physical exertion.

This is my preferred modus operendi.........with a fawn decoy thrown in. I think this is one of three angles of attack (food). The other two are:

1) Sexual attraction

2) Sparring

To all those worried about incurring physical harm via attack- I'm confident that with adequate firepower (IMO, not all that much is needed, a .270 would be plenty as I know from experience bipeds are much easier to drop than quads), and a few seconds to compose yourself (crucial in thick cover, close-quarters encounters as some unlucky brown bear hunters can attest to), any potential (though extremely unlikely) threat could be quickly nullified.

I would want something that could STOP a charge. A .270 is plenty lethal enough if you put something in the vitals and wait. But stopping a 800 lbs animal that is angry? Not so much.