The Kill Club

[gigantor]

Then, carry the one with large enough bore to handle whatever may pop up...

Thus my question, thanks for your input.

I was reading some hunting forums and it seems to be a common question with bears. The consensus seems to be what BC Witness said, a .44 Magnum minimum for bears.

Although it looks like a hiker killed a grizzly with a .45 ACP.  My question now is, does a BF compare to a grizzly in terms of size? A grizz can be 1200-1400 lbs. I doubt BF get over 400 lbs.

--------

Grizzly Bear Shot and Killed By Hikers In Denali National Park and Preserve

Submitted by Kurt Repanshek on May 31, 2010 - 8:17am

A grizzly bear that emerged from a thicket and charged two backpackers in the backcountry of Denali National Park and Preserve was shot and killed by one of the two who was carrying a .45-caliber semi-automatic pistol, according to park officials.

The killing Friday is believed to be the first instance of a hiker killing a grizzly in the park's wilderness. The killing occurred in the original Mount McKinley National Park portion of the Denali, which was expanded by two-thirds in 1980.

Until February, when Congress changed the rules, it was illegal to carry a loaded firearm in that portion of Denali. While the rule change now allows hikers to carry firearms in all areas of Denali, it still is illegal to discharge them, park officials said.

Park officials did not speculate whether the killing was justified. This is believed to be the first instance of a visitor to a national park killing an animal with a firearm since the gun regulations were changed.

According to a release from the park, the two backpackers, a man and woman, were hiking in dense brush along the edge of Tattler Creek, which is at the west end of Igloo Canyon roughly 35 miles from the park headquarters.

"The man, who was in the lead, drew a .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol when they heard a noise coming from the brush. When the bear emerged from the thicket and ran toward the other hiker, he fired approximately nine rounds in its general direction. The bear stopped, turned, and walked back into the brush, where it quickly disappeared from view," said the release....

"Early Saturday morning rangers and wildlife technicians flew to Toklat via helicopter to conduct a secondary interview with the two backpackers. Afterwards they flew over Tattler Creek and all of side tributaries, very low at times, to determine if there was an active, wounded bear," the park release said. "No bears were seen during the overflight, and late in the afternoon three rangers hiked into the site. The bear was found dead in a willow thicket approximately 100 feet from the pistol casings at approximately 6:00 p.m.

-----------

Edited May 12, 2014 by gigantor

[Yuchi1]

Thus my question, thanks for your input.

I was reading some hunting forums and it seems to be a common question with bears. The consensus seems to be what BC Witness said, a .44 Magnum minimum for bears.

Although it looks like a hiker killed a grizzly with a .45 ACP.  My question now is, does a BF compare to a grizzly in terms of size? A grizz can be 1200-1400 lbs. I doubt BF get over 400 lbs.

--------

Grizzly Bear Shot and Killed By Hikers In Denali National Park and Preserve

Submitted by Kurt Repanshek on May 31, 2010 - 8:17am

A grizzly bear that emerged from a thicket and charged two backpackers in the backcountry of Denali National Park and Preserve was shot and killed by one of the two who was carrying a .45-caliber semi-automatic pistol, according to park officials.

The killing Friday is believed to be the first instance of a hiker killing a grizzly in the park's wilderness. The killing occurred in the original Mount McKinley National Park portion of the Denali, which was expanded by two-thirds in 1980.

Until February, when Congress changed the rules, it was illegal to carry a loaded firearm in that portion of Denali. While the rule change now allows hikers to carry firearms in all areas of Denali, it still is illegal to discharge them, park officials said.

Park officials did not speculate whether the killing was justified. This is believed to be the first instance of a visitor to a national park killing an animal with a firearm since the gun regulations were changed.

According to a release from the park, the two backpackers, a man and woman, were hiking in dense brush along the edge of Tattler Creek, which is at the west end of Igloo Canyon roughly 35 miles from the park headquarters.

"The man, who was in the lead, drew a .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol when they heard a noise coming from the brush. When the bear emerged from the thicket and ran toward the other hiker, he fired approximately nine rounds in its general direction. The bear stopped, turned, and walked back into the brush, where it quickly disappeared from view," said the release....

"Early Saturday morning rangers and wildlife technicians flew to Toklat via helicopter to conduct a secondary interview with the two backpackers. Afterwards they flew over Tattler Creek and all of side tributaries, very low at times, to determine if there was an active, wounded bear," the park release said. "No bears were seen during the overflight, and late in the afternoon three rangers hiked into the site. The bear was found dead in a willow thicket approximately 100 feet from the pistol casings at approximately 6:00 p.m.

-----------

In Alaska, inland grizzlies are usually in the 300-500 lb. range while coastal grizzlies/browns can go to 1500+ lbs.

 

The alpha UHS we observed (the one that likely slammed over the towerstand) in quad mode was later measured (via the two trees it was behind) to have been ~6' head to hind quarter, making it ~10'+ when standing erect. I would estimate the weight to have been ~700-800 lbs.

[gigantor]

What is an UHS? 

 

I think you keep referring to some events I'm not aware of...  what "towerstand"?  I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Xion Comrade]

And what have the anti kill crowd produced for evidence? Zilcho..........

Which is the majority mindset? Yours!

If the pro kill mindset was the prevalent one? We would have one bagged by now.

 

The "anti kill" crowd may have yet to have "proven" the existence of Bigfoot, but saying that "they" have not produced any evidence is dead wrong. Everything from print casts, hair samples, videos, photographs, "journal entries", audio recordings, and such are in my experience much much more likely to be procured and shared by this "anti-kill" crowd. The "Erickson Project", or whatever in the world people are calling it these days, was a no-kill project that got tons and tons of data over it's course. Where has this gotten us? Well it looks like all it has taught us is that the discovery of the Sasquatch will be opposed on every front possible and that no amount of money or time is going to make a damned bit of difference(5 years and 500,000 dollars at the minimum just to be buried and made a fool of?), the blood spilled by the pro-kill crowd is on our societies collective dull head, and not on the head of the one who pulls the trigger at this point if you ask me. It is plainly obvious to anyone who digs deep enough that they are quite real from where I am standing, I didn't need to see one to figure that one out, but I will this summer come hell or high water.

[norseman]

^^^^^^^^^^Sure, and Science feels that's all hogwash..........

 

And pertaining to DNA? Nada. Either it wasn't a Squatch or the sample was contaminated.

 

Us Prokiller guys? Don't pack dental resin and we sure don't count wood knocks, our goals are much more based in the physical realm.

 

If some anti kill guy scores the DNA sample of a life time? I applaud him.......I'll tip my hat and be glad for it.

 

This is not a blood lust cowboy trip for me. It is simply borne out of frustration with the current crop of main stream "researchers" that could not find their hinney with both hands...........and admittedly are not NOT out to prove anything to anyone.

 

I'm sorry............you have a popular TV show, and Taco Bell endorsements, and you tell the public they EXIST.......but your not interested in proving anything.......REALLY? Is this Biology or fan worship? What's the goal here?

 

I'm done paddy caking with this subject and am simply looking for the quickest means to end this mystery.........I want off the merry go round.

Norse,

 

The no-kill contigent are not the ones making claims (to justify their position) about looming extinction and detrimental habitat loss that is causing said extinction.  What has the pro-kill advocates produced in the form of tangible/forensic evidence to validate such claims? Zilcho?

 

I drive truck in the oil field, so my responses during the day on my Iphone are abit choppy............I apologize.

 

The no kill contingent makes plenty of claims.........and has no plans of proving anything to anyone. "Bigfeets" wood knock, have IR vision, whoop, whatever........where is there evidence for any of it?

 

The pro kill advocates are after proof of the species, UNLIKE the anti kill crowd ( with a few exceptions).

 

Once we have a type specimen? Science will cast it's substantial gaze at this species and all of the questions about habitat, and range and population will be answered. Along with endangered species acts, and management and protection for individuals and habitat...........etc.

 

WIN/win

Thus my question, thanks for your input.

I was reading some hunting forums and it seems to be a common question with bears. The consensus seems to be what BC Witness said, a .44 Magnum minimum for bears.

Although it looks like a hiker killed a grizzly with a .45 ACP.  My question now is, does a BF compare to a grizzly in terms of size? A grizz can be 1200-1400 lbs. I doubt BF get over 400 lbs.

--------

Grizzly Bear Shot and Killed By Hikers In Denali National Park and Preserve
Submitted by Kurt Repanshek on May 31, 2010 - 8:17am

A grizzly bear that emerged from a thicket and charged two backpackers in the backcountry of Denali National Park and Preserve was shot and killed by one of the two who was carrying a .45-caliber semi-automatic pistol, according to park officials.

The killing Friday is believed to be the first instance of a hiker killing a grizzly in the park's wilderness. The killing occurred in the original Mount McKinley National Park portion of the Denali, which was expanded by two-thirds in 1980.

Until February, when Congress changed the rules, it was illegal to carry a loaded firearm in that portion of Denali. While the rule change now allows hikers to carry firearms in all areas of Denali, it still is illegal to discharge them, park officials said.

Park officials did not speculate whether the killing was justified. This is believed to be the first instance of a visitor to a national park killing an animal with a firearm since the gun regulations were changed.

According to a release from the park, the two backpackers, a man and woman, were hiking in dense brush along the edge of Tattler Creek, which is at the west end of Igloo Canyon roughly 35 miles from the park headquarters.

"The man, who was in the lead, drew a .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol when they heard a noise coming from the brush. When the bear emerged from the thicket and ran toward the other hiker, he fired approximately nine rounds in its general direction. The bear stopped, turned, and walked back into the brush, where it quickly disappeared from view," said the release....

"Early Saturday morning rangers and wildlife technicians flew to Toklat via helicopter to conduct a secondary interview with the two backpackers. Afterwards they flew over Tattler Creek and all of side tributaries, very low at times, to determine if there was an active, wounded bear," the park release said. "No bears were seen during the overflight, and late in the afternoon three rangers hiked into the site. The bear was found dead in a willow thicket approximately 100 feet from the pistol casings at approximately 6:00 p.m.
-----------

 

You can hunt Elephant with a .243 if you have surgical knowledge of it's anatomy and pick the exact right moment in time............I wouldn't advise it in a full charge.

 

There lies the difference.

 

I care about you bud, and I want you to be safe. That means you need to park that 1911 and buy a .44 mag that you are comfortable with.

 

I just bought these to feed it with and I would advise them for you:

 

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=54

[Yuchi1]

What is an UHS? 

 

I think you keep referring to some events I'm not aware of...  what "towerstand"?  I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

Back in my pro-kill days, we had a "cookout" (03/2003) in a meadow on a parcel (Rogers county Oklahoma) where activity was red hot as I had been approached (and screamed at) by a possible family group (~6 individuals) a few months earlier as I rebaited a camera trap (one night) with venison and mallard ducks, taken the previous season.

 

BTW, the venison and ducks (unplucked, frozen whole) were extrappropriated from the scene w/o a single pic being snapped and w/o a single feather or piece of the venison packaging left behind. This led us to conclude it was not small critters engaged in the larceny.

 

In reading (at lot, on the BFRO database) it appeared many sightings/encounters occurred when people were doing things (camping, hiking, fishing, etc.) other than out in the woods, with enough ordnance to take out Bolivia and posturing (stalking) through the woods as a predator, thus telling everthing in the forest, we were there to kill. 

 

So, I got the idea to have a cookout down in the bottoms with steaks and all the "fixins" cooked over a Weber kettle and/or in the coals of the campfire. We did just that had had more activity/incidents in that one evening than the previous six months, combined.

 

What we considered the alpha approached us, 3X in a four hour period, probably wondering if we had cooked him a steak as well. The third time, he came to within ~25 yards of our position when T.E. spotted him across the creek using Gen III NV goggles. When he turned around to face me and his lips were moving but nothing coming out, I knew the big guy was back. T.E. grabbed his shotgun and took off after him with me catching up with him ~125 yards NE of the camp. Told him that whatever it was, we weren't going to run it down but we might run into it in the thicket, and then be on it's terms.

 

We returned to camp and a short time later the other two guys returned (had been in stand #7, ~300 yards diagonal (SSW) of our position) and had three separate sightings (from there) using their Gen III NV binoculars. Anyway, as things seemed to go dead quiet, we decided to pack up and head up to the landowner's house. They left out in the SXS ATV and T.E. & I packed up the grill, etc. and just as I closed the tailgate on the truck, there was a sound of brush moving and a huge crack and then, crashing sound ~75 yards NNE of out position. Told T.E., that was one helluva tree limb that just fell. At the time, it was a full moon, clear, wind NNE @~5MPH and dead quiet.

 

We drove up to the house and were standing in the front yard discussing the events of that evening when a popping/slapping sound was heard immediately north of the house, coming from what we referred to as rattlesnake canyon. It was a stone, the size of a softball ripping through the limbs/leaves of the trees like a cannonball.  It landed with a thud, making a divot ~20 yards from the front porch. At that point, we decided it was time for Elvis to leave the building.

 

It was the next day when we discovered the source of the crash heard the evening before while packing the camp up. It was towerstand #11, slammed over as a tinkertoy with the top (roof/walls) heavily damaged from the impact. The crack sound turned out to be the landscape nails I had driven into the ~18" diameter hackberry tree next to the NE leg to held brace it in high winds.  We found one partial heel print on the ground at the base of the stand as our only evidence of effort expended in doing this deed. It took four of us and the 1500# winch on the ATV, all pulling to right the stand.

 

That, sir, is the moment I began to truly realize the magnitude and magnificence of what we had been chasing around, like a bunch of schoolkids after a housecat.  I also realized how foolish and flat dangerous it was as well and hearkened back to J.W.'s previous admonishment a few months earlier with, "we don't have enough gun".

 

UHS = unidentified hominid subject (per, Dr. Ciani)

Edited May 13, 2014 by Yuchi1

[Xion Comrade]

^^^^^^^^^^Sure, and Science feels that's all hogwash..........

 

And pertaining to DNA? Nada. Either it wasn't a Squatch or the sample was contaminated.

 

So they say....Probably just a bunch of hogwash tbh, people who should be looking into the project coughing up yet another reason not to. The whole thing blew over so fast you will never convince me it was not shut up from the outside.

 

Us Prokiller guys? Don't pack dental resin and we sure don't count wood knocks, our goals are much more based in the physical realm.

 

If some anti kill guy scores the DNA sample of a life time? I applaud him.......I'll tip my hat and be glad for it.

 

Robert Morgan said he had such a thing(I mean it was a big pile of bigfoot poop, but hey!) and it was tossed out with the trash pretty quickly, almost totally disregarded.

 

This is not a blood lust cowboy trip for me. It is simply borne out of frustration with the current crop of main stream "researchers" that could not find their hinney with both hands...........and admittedly are not NOT out to prove anything to anyone.

 

I'm sorry............you have a popular TV show, and Taco Bell endorsements, and you tell the public they EXIST.......but your not interested in proving anything.......REALLY? Is this Biology or fan worship? What's the goal here?

 

I'm done paddy caking with this subject and am simply looking for the quickest means to end this mystery.........I want off the merry go round.

I remember Erickson at the press conference saying that when he showed the footage(In the form in which it represented the actual project fairly, a serious documentary) and findings to the producers they basically said, "Oh wow that is just incredible! BUT, what we need to do with all of this is reality TV!"  And Walla! Finding Bigfoot gets rip roaring. Didn't give two shats about the species or the biggest scientific find in recent history, only money and a silly insolent reality TV show. Erickson being no sucker locks away the footage until "Someone takes this seriously, at which point I will release some of the video." He seemed extremely irritated about the whole fiasco. That was the best you can get without a body, you will not see funding like that and will never have a more serious study done until the body is had. I mean it is still possible that something happens with that project, but to me it looks like it has been completely shut down and swept under the rug.

 

[norseman]

I don't trust anti kill folks who are trying to sell me something......that includes Robert Morgan.

It's called job security.

Back in my pro-kill days, we had a "cookout" (03/2003) in a meadow on a parcel (Rogers county Oklahoma) where activity was red hot as I had been approached (and screamed at) by a possible family group (~6 individuals) a few months earlier as I rebaited a camera trap (one night) with venison and mallard ducks, taken the previous season.

BTW, the venison and ducks (unplucked, frozen whole) were extrappropriated from the scene w/o a single pic being snapped and w/o a single feather or piece of the venison packaging left behind. This led us to conclude it was not small critters engaged in the larceny.

In reading (at lot, on the BFRO database) it appeared many sightings/encounters occurred when people were doing things (camping, hiking, fishing, etc.) other than out in the woods, with enough ordnance to take out Bolivia and posturing (stalking) through the woods as a predator, thus telling everthing in the forest, we were there to kill.

So, I got the idea to have a cookout down in the bottoms with steaks and all the "fixins" cooked over a Weber kettle and/or in the coals of the campfire. We did just that had had more activity/incidents in that one evening than the previous six months, combined.

What we considered the alpha approached us, 3X in a four hour period, probably wondering if we had cooked him a steak as well. The third time, he came to within ~25 yards of our position when T.E. spotted him across the creek using Gen III NV goggles. When he turned around to face me and his lips were moving but nothing coming out, I knew the big guy was back. T.E. grabbed his shotgun and took off after him with me catching up with him ~125 yards NE of the camp. Told him that whatever it was, we weren't going to run it down but we might run into it in the thicket, and then be on it's terms.

We returned to camp and a short time later the other two guys returned (had been in stand #7, ~300 yards diagonal (SSW) of our position) and had three separate sightings (from there) using their Gen III NV binoculars. Anyway, as things seemed to go dead quiet, we decided to pack up and head up to the landowner's house. They left out in the SXS ATV and T.E. & I packed up the grill, etc. and just as I closed the tailgate on the truck, there was a sound of brush moving and a huge crack and then, crashing sound ~75 yards NNE of out position. Told T.E., that was one helluva tree limb that just fell. At the time, it was a full moon, clear, wind NNE @~5MPH and dead quiet.

We drove up to the house and were standing in the front yard discussing the events of that evening when a popping/slapping sound was heard immediately north of the house, coming from what we referred to as rattlesnake canyon. It was a stone, the size of a softball ripping through the limbs/leaves of the trees like a cannonball. It landed with a thud, making a divot ~20 yards from the front porch. At that point, we decided it was time for Elvis to leave the building.

It was the next day when we discovered the source of the crash heard the evening before while packing the camp up. It was towerstand #11, slammed over as a tinkertoy with the top (roof/walls) heavily damaged from the impact. The crack sound turned out to be the landscape nails I had driven into the ~18" diameter hackberry tree next to the NE leg to held brace it in high winds. We found one partial heel print on the ground at the base of the stand as our only evidence of effort expended in doing this deed. It took four of us and the 1500# winch on the ATV, all pulling to right the stand.

That, sir, is the moment I began to truly realize the magnitude and magnificence of what we had been chasing around, like a bunch of schoolkids after a housecat. I also realized how foolish and flat dangerous it was as well and hearkened back to J.W.'s previous admonishment a few months earlier with, "we don't have enough gun".

UHS = unidentified hominid subject (per, Dr. Ciani)

A couple of years ago we found grizzly bear tracks about 100 yards away from our wall tent while elk hunting in the selkirks.

Without a doubt there are plenty of things out there that can chew you up and spit you out if your not careful.

Last week I got thrown from my horse while hunting Grendel because we bumped into a bull moose sunning himself........

Falls, getting drug, hypothermia, broken bones, etc......it's dangerous for sure.'

But that doesn't change what must be done.

[Xion Comrade]

I don't trust anti kill folks who are trying to sell me something......that includes Robert Morgan.

 

 

I always liked Robert, can't say he ever tried to sell anyone anything. As a matter of fact he spent most of his time avoiding the spotlight after being harassed by various bigfooting groups of nasty varieties and paid for **** near everything he did out of his own pocket, guy was one of the few sincere researchers we had back in those days.

[norseman]

Did he write and sell books about the subject?

[Xion Comrade]

Did he write and sell books about the subject?

 

One on the subject that he talks about alot, a little 5 dollar book(In his own words, just enough to make it possible to buy it/publish it but not enough to actually make money off of it). He is pretty proud of that wee little book though. He has another dealing with all sorts of things, but I've hardly ever heard him promote that one(one of my favorites tbh). Dude left no stone unturned and didn't give a crap what other people thought about it, for better or for worse. Not enough for a red flag. Guy is about 80 now.

[Wheellug]

off topic...

sometimes I cant help but associate words with songs...

 

This so reminded me of a moment in Alice's Restaurant...Arlo Guthrie.. 

  "...I wanna kil.. killll.. KIIIIILLLLL!"

 

Sorry for the interruption... 

[NCBFr]

I'm not trying to hunt BG with a sidearm. I want to use a sidearm for self-defense when I'm out in the woods.

 

I am afraid in the event you run in to a BF that is intent on doing you in, a sidearm will probably not be of much use.  First off all, if you see them and have time to react, they probably dont want to kill you.  If I am mistaken, they probably will not do you much good anyway.  Sorry if this has been posted but I think it is a reasonable estimate for what a full grown BF can handle:

 

http://mountainsurvival.com/news_articles/bearattack.html

[gigantor]

I doubt a BF is as big as a Grizzly, I don't buy the 12 foot BF stories. If they were that big, we'd sure have collateral evidence like scat.

 

If you believe it, the most compelling evidence is the PGF film, and that BF is only 400 lbs or so. I'm getting a 44 magnum just to be safe, but I think something less will take a BF down. A BF is NOT a bear, it's belly and lower abdomen are exposed.

 

There is no bone there, it's all muscles and flab. No way a BF takes 4 or 5 hollowpoints to the gut and keeps on coming, IMO.

[bipedalist]

Did he write and sell books about the subject?

He has a little 12 or 15 dollar book available, and many have followed the approach and had sightings as a result.

The Bigfoot Field Observer's Manual, best 15 bucks many bigfooters have ever spent. Check it out on Amazon.

He did have his own blogtalk radio show AARF for awhile too, never heard one though, can't speak to the range of subject matter.

Buy it used, it's cheaper that way.