The Kill Club

[norseman]

Generally speaking gig with dangerous game that can maul you? You want penetration and not expansion, so bullet selection is different than say home self defense.

And with a biped I'd aim for the pelvic region or upper chest - head. There is nothing in that gut he cannot live without long enough to shred you.......get him stopped and on the ground, and don't stop firing until then.

A 44 mag is no longer the biggest pistol out there, but I say if you need more than that? You should be packing a rifle.

[gigantor]

I hear you...  fmj then. 

 

This is mostly an intellectual exercise really. I'll be lucky to even see a bear, they run away anyhow, I'll have my "bear bells" so they can "hear me coming" , I'll scream at it, wave my arms and if that doesn't work, I'll pull out my bear spray which is more effective than a firearm at deterring an attack.

 

[bipedalist]

Use a flare and fire off a few F bombs, worked for Toddster.

[norseman]

It's an insurance policy when all else fails you.

He has a little 12 or 15 dollar book available, and many have followed the approach and had sightings as a result.

The Bigfoot Field Observer's Manual, best 15 bucks many bigfooters have ever spent. Check it out on Amazon.

He did have his own blogtalk radio show AARF for awhile too, never heard one though, can't speak to the range of subject matter.

Buy it used, it's cheaper that way.

Cool.

I just bought krantz's book, when I get that read, I'll get it

[BC witness]

I wholeheartedly agree with norseman, you do NOT want to gut-shoot a bear or BF, you want to stop the attack by breaking bones and taking out either the heart/lungs, or the brain, but choose swiftly, as you won't get a shot at both!

[Yuchi1]

I wholeheartedly agree with norseman, you do NOT want to gut-shoot a bear or BF, you want to stop the attack by breaking bones and taking out either the heart/lungs, or the brain, but choose swiftly, as you won't get a shot at both!

 

Many LE agencies are now teaching the first shot is to the pelvic area both to hit/break a hip/pelvic plate and/or hit a major artery with the second shot to upper torso. Have experienced a dislocated hip (run over by a drunk driver while a pedestrian) and it is pretty much going to anchor you to the spot.

I doubt a BF is as big as a Grizzly, I don't buy the 12 foot BF stories. If they were that big, we'd sure have collateral evidence like scat.

 

If you believe it, the most compelling evidence is the PGF film, and that BF is only 400 lbs or so. I'm getting a 44 magnum just to be safe, but I think something less will take a BF down. A BF is NOT a bear, it's belly and lower abdomen are exposed.

 

There is no bone there, it's all muscles and flab. No way a BF takes 4 or 5 hollowpoints to the gut and keeps on coming, IMO.

 In many species, the male version is often 1.5-2X larger than the female.

[NCBFr]

I doubt a BF is as big as a Grizzly, I don't buy the 12 foot BF stories. If they were that big, we'd sure have collateral evidence like scat.

 

If you believe it, the most compelling evidence is the PGF film, and that BF is only 400 lbs or so. I'm getting a 44 magnum just to be safe, but I think something less will take a BF down. A BF is NOT a bear, it's belly and lower abdomen are exposed.

 

There is no bone there, it's all muscles and flab. No way a BF takes 4 or 5 hollowpoints to the gut and keeps on coming, IMO.

 

I can share with you evidence that Grizzlies fear BFs.  Whether you believe it or not it is up to you.  However, with that being said,  I hope you know what you are doing as I would place $100 that you are more likely to shoot yourself than a charging 800-1200 pound male BF.  You would be terrified, probably moving backwards at a fast rate, and trying to hit a moving target in the space of a few inches, in probably less than 3 seconds.  I would bet Norse could do it but few else on this forum.  

[gigantor]

Hopefully, I'll never have to find out...  like I said, I'm not hunting BF at this time, just looking for to defend myself in the worst case scenario while I'm setting trail cams and such. Shoot, I'm  skeptic, don't even believe BF exists, yet.

Edited May 14, 2014 by gigantor

[WSA]

"Shrink, I wanna kill. I wanna see blood and gore and guts, eat dead, burnt bodies and feel veins between my teeth...."

[BC witness]

WSA, it sounds like you want to come along on a Northern BC moose hunt! Fresh liver with onions after the first kill is always a treat. Ever gut a moose? That'll sate your lust for blood and guts!!!

Edited May 15, 2014 by BC witness

[Gotta Know]

Back in my pro-kill days, we had a "cookout" (03/2003) in a meadow on a parcel (Rogers county Oklahoma) where activity was red hot as I had been approached (and screamed at) by a possible family group (~6 individuals) a few months earlier as I rebaited a camera trap (one night) with venison and mallard ducks, taken the previous season.

 

BTW, the venison and ducks (unplucked, frozen whole) were extrappropriated from the scene w/o a single pic being snapped and w/o a single feather or piece of the venison packaging left behind. This led us to conclude it was not small critters engaged in the larceny.

 

In reading (at lot, on the BFRO database) it appeared many sightings/encounters occurred when people were doing things (camping, hiking, fishing, etc.) other than out in the woods, with enough ordnance to take out Bolivia and posturing (stalking) through the woods as a predator, thus telling everthing in the forest, we were there to kill. 

 

So, I got the idea to have a cookout down in the bottoms with steaks and all the "fixins" cooked over a Weber kettle and/or in the coals of the campfire. We did just that had had more activity/incidents in that one evening than the previous six months, combined.

 

What we considered the alpha approached us, 3X in a four hour period, probably wondering if we had cooked him a steak as well. The third time, he came to within ~25 yards of our position when T.E. spotted him across the creek using Gen III NV goggles. When he turned around to face me and his lips were moving but nothing coming out, I knew the big guy was back. T.E. grabbed his shotgun and took off after him with me catching up with him ~125 yards NE of the camp. Told him that whatever it was, we weren't going to run it down but we might run into it in the thicket, and then be on it's terms.

 

We returned to camp and a short time later the other two guys returned (had been in stand #7, ~300 yards diagonal (SSW) of our position) and had three separate sightings (from there) using their Gen III NV binoculars. Anyway, as things seemed to go dead quiet, we decided to pack up and head up to the landowner's house. They left out in the SXS ATV and T.E. & I packed up the grill, etc. and just as I closed the tailgate on the truck, there was a sound of brush moving and a huge crack and then, crashing sound ~75 yards NNE of out position. Told T.E., that was one helluva tree limb that just fell. At the time, it was a full moon, clear, wind NNE @~5MPH and dead quiet.

 

We drove up to the house and were standing in the front yard discussing the events of that evening when a popping/slapping sound was heard immediately north of the house, coming from what we referred to as rattlesnake canyon. It was a stone, the size of a softball ripping through the limbs/leaves of the trees like a cannonball.  It landed with a thud, making a divot ~20 yards from the front porch. At that point, we decided it was time for Elvis to leave the building.

 

It was the next day when we discovered the source of the crash heard the evening before while packing the camp up. It was towerstand #11, slammed over as a tinkertoy with the top (roof/walls) heavily damaged from the impact. The crack sound turned out to be the landscape nails I had driven into the ~18" diameter hackberry tree next to the NE leg to held brace it in high winds.  We found one partial heel print on the ground at the base of the stand as our only evidence of effort expended in doing this deed. It took four of us and the 1500# winch on the ATV, all pulling to right the stand.

 

That, sir, is the moment I began to truly realize the magnitude and magnificence of what we had been chasing around, like a bunch of schoolkids after a housecat.  I also realized how foolish and flat dangerous it was as well and hearkened back to J.W.'s previous admonishment a few months earlier with, "we don't have enough gun".

 

UHS = unidentified hominid subject (per, Dr. Ciani)

Great story and lots of info in here. I can understand your personal motivation for switching to a no-kill stance. To each his/her own. One and done is my feeling.

 

I did want to state that I noticed in the NAWAC thread that you went after Bipto pretty hard for possible game law violations. Your use of game animals to bait your BF trap would be viewed as an intentional wasting of game animals, correct? It certainly has been in all the states I've hunted. Glass houses and all that. Just sayin'...

[BobbyO]

One and done is, I'd like to think, is the mentality of all of us.

[Yuchi1]

Great story and lots of info in here. I can understand your personal motivation for switching to a no-kill stance. To each his/her own. One and done is my feeling.

 

I did want to state that I noticed in the NAWAC thread that you went after Bipto pretty hard for possible game law violations. Your use of game animals to bait your BF trap would be viewed as an intentional wasting of game animals, correct? It certainly has been in all the states I've hunted. Glass houses and all that. Just sayin'...

 

Actually, no, as wanton waste involves the discarding of wild game animals immediately after taking them in the field. If you had read a bit closer, you'd noticed the venison was "packaged" which means it had been processed at a commercial processer and the mallards had been frozen whole (acceptable practice) at the end (home) destination. With the time period being April, the birds had been harvested at least 90+ days previous. The devil is always in the details.

[norseman]

Oh the irony!!!

[Yuchi1]

Oh the irony!!!

 

Note to self, when trying to dogpile or be snarky, try not to do it from a position of ignorance.