The Kill Club

[Incorrigible1]

Carry on, friend.

[norseman]

I don't think nets or cages or any of that is going to work. They are static, elaborate and may not function properly part of the time.

The bullet is still the number one solution to the mystery at present IMO

[BobbyO]

I haven't yet, still have 10 pages to go on Kill club. I will this week and I have myself and another "brotha" who I grew up and served with so we wouldn't need to practice much but if I can get my actual brother to join us then it's on. He is a bit of a skeptic but very wealthy so that would make this easier, he also served with us so as far as a team goes I couldn't ask for more. We could move quick and quiet w/out even needing the hand signals, just a look would suffice. I'm looking at fall just before hunting season starts, either Goat Mntn/Marsh or Quartz creek canyon at the very end of it where it hangs right and then ascends up to peak/ridges. If I'm a large animal with great mobility this is the spot I would call "home": steep mountains to my back, only 1 way in for humans - they think - and close enough to water and game. Another aspect about the location of this hidden canyon is the fact that it lies pretty much halfway between 2 areas of many reports. They could use this as a pivot point between seasons. I know for a FACT that in early spring they are around Goat Marsh but gone by mid May. I believe they head a little north and to the East of St Helens during the summer but IDK where... BoobyO, could you make a guesstimate of where this might be if you knew for a fact that they were where I stated in early Spring by using reports, elevation, etc?

Funny you should say that.

I can't remember who/what/when/how now but I remember talk of some terrain ( caves ) in an area due North of where you talking about as the crow flies, within 20 miles maybe.

I'll have to dig it out but pretty confident I can as I can remember the area.

Just having a look at the numbers, I see we have a nice chunk of reports in the Summer months within 20 miles of Goat Marsh Lake so I'll look into the locations of those over the next couple of days.

It will be interesting to see where the Summer locations actually are then, especially if you're that sure on the Spring locations and that they move for the Summer.

[Guest keninsc]

I don't think nets or cages or any of that is going to work. They are static, elaborate and may not function properly part of the time.

The bullet is still the number one solution to the mystery at present IMO

 

I did some serious thinking about traps, snares, and such because I felt and still feel that taking one alive would be best all around. The problem is according to accounts these critters have unnaturally great strength and even if you understand that these accounts might be slightly over exaggerated then you still have a pretty darn strong critter who's not going to be very happy about being trapped. Not only that, but if the one you trapped has a family group (I've heard them referred to as"pods") then you're going to have a group of these buggers all pissed off and working to get the trapped one out.

 

Now, this is only one scenario, where you actually manager to trap one. I haven't even touched on the rather glaring problems of not changing the area, not doing anything that might alter them that something is up.......and yes, I am aware that Bigfoots seem to be a walking contradiction in that they do thing like avoid humans and yet they are seen walking on the side of roads. Unfortunately, I can't start setting up traps on the sides of highways because too many hitchhikers will get snagged. Humans aren't real bright.....even if you put up a damned-old warning sign.

 

Now I would also point out that you can't just run down to your local Trap and Snare store and buy a dozen #4 Bigfoot snares, biggest thing you can get is something for a bear and if the Bigfoot prints are to be believed then that's not going to work due to the configuration of a Bigfoot's foot. So, that means you're gonna have to develop an effective snare pretty much on your own. Design, build, prototype and bebug. You have to make it as simple as possible, strong enough to hold an African Elephant, man-portable, easy to set up, easy to conceal and,,,,,,and this is a big "And", made in such a way to lessen the accidental trapping of things like bears, deer and other game animals that have seasonal trapping laws established. You trap a black bear or a Grizzly bear out of season and the Game Warden finds out about, even if by accident, your bohunkus is going to the hoosegow.

 

Trust me on this, I looked long and hard into this......and as it happens I'm a design engineer, so I enjoyed the challenge, but I had no luck coming up with a viable design. That's not to say I'm the last word on such a thing, but I touched base with a number of people from variety of background......including people who actively trap.

 

The main motivation for going through this was to be sure that I'd explored alternate ideas before just walking out and shooting one. It's sort of a left handed Karma thing.

[Guest]

I don't think nets or cages or any of that is going to work. They are static, elaborate and may not function properly part of the time.

The bullet is still the number one solution to the mystery at present IMO

Cages no, nets maybe, I hear what your saying about "elaborate thus more things that could go wrong". I agree but it just feels like we're missing something that is considered passive and wouldn't necessitate patrolling after something that's better at bush craft than us and incredibly illusive. OK more ridiculous spit balling: I knew an old man who guerilla grew large fields of whacky tobacky and to keep the deer out of his gardens he put machine guns on sturdy bracketed tripods with fishing line as trip wires connected to the triggers, first time up there I thought we were being raided by DEA cause he forgot to inform me of his redneck security system. Good thing I didn't sleep walk. 

Anyhow most of are thinking what if some unsuspecting hiker comes along? It was my 1st concern but the weapons would have a designated firing lane and we would have the area semi surrounded by ourselves to pounce once 1 is triggered and also to keep people out of the area. Extra precaution is have someone on the road coming into the unit to warn them off. Would be very easy to set up and could have any configuration as long as not pointed towards any team members. I'd think having 1 system covering the other in case we bag 1 and there's reprisal directed at the system, them thinking it's a human, then it doubles our chances. Only negative there is what if we kill 2 and it wasn't necessary, I'd feel bad. Another negative is lack of accuracy for the shots, we'd have to really dial in the tripod and the gear to attach it. Would take a machinist I believe but if a pot smoking hippy can then some of us old boys could manage. 4th negative if we dont get a clean shot is 600lbs/8'  of pissed-off monkey.

 

Again just spit balling.

[SWWASAS]

Have you thought about a 50 cal sniper rifle with a good scope?     No need to get close,  chase, etc.    Just get on some ridge in a ghilly suit with a buddy on a spotting scope and wait in an active area.     Certainly the weapon would be adequate for a clean kill.     For the record I would not want to be part of this but really think that a body is needed to establish proof.   I just don't want the chance or a life to be wasted because of inadequate planning.      Also I hope females with prominent lactating breasts would be off limits as you would be killing the juvenile too.    I could imagine the public howl and condemnation if you shot a nursing female.     The other caution is since what BF really is genetically is unknown,   you might find yourself in need of a legal help should charges of some sort be filed.    You could hardly claim self defense if you are actively hunting something.  Legal fees could bankrupt you.    Skamania county WA is already off limits because of the $10,000 fine and jail time for shooting a BF.    

[BobbyO]

To be fair Randy, in the grand scheme of things, I know people that would gladly swallow the $10k fine if they shot one.

Not sure how tight the jail thing is though to be honest, and no one wants that in the US.

Edited June 17, 2014 by BobbyO

[norseman]

How do you discern a monkey suit from a real animal that long distance rifle range?

[SWWASAS]

Norseman that would be a problem up close too.    Human hunters shoot each other quite frequently so a guy in a monkey suit would be even more likely to get shot.   I would say if you cannot determine the difference between the physical properties of a BF and a human in a monkey suit,  you better not take the shot.     BobbyO I am claustrophobic so not real interested in jail time.  I am not sure you could recoup the $10,000 if you had to pay the fine.    But $10,000 would be nothing if you have to defend yourself with a lawyer.    If someone can make a good case for self defense that is probably the best way to stay out of jail.    But even that requires paying big bucks to a lawyer.   Just ask anyone that has shot a home intruder how that goes.    Experts say the best option with that is show the intruder the gun and tell them to leave even though in most states you have the right to shoot them if they threaten your life inside your home.   If you shoot them you will need a lawyer.    Besides I would hate cleaning up the bloody mess too. 

 

I really think the best way to avoid these issues is get a body or skeleton that is already dead.   They are there someplace.     Easier said than done but that is how I am dealing with it.     Forest fires would be a good way.    Get in quickly after the fire is out and hope you find a body that got trapped.    Natural disasters of other kinds have potential too.   Avalanches,  land slides,  floods,  volcanic eruptions, anything that will kill people will kill BF if they are trapped.   

Edited June 17, 2014 by SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT

[Guest]

Funny you should say that.

I can't remember who/what/when/how now but I remember talk of some terrain ( caves ) in an area due North of where you talking about as the crow flies, within 20 miles maybe.

I'll have to dig it out but pretty confident I can as I can remember the area.

Just having a look at the numbers, I see we have a nice chunk of reports in the Summer months within 20 miles of Goat Marsh Lake so I'll look into the locations of those over the next couple of days.

It will be interesting to see where the Summer locations actually are then, especially if you're that sure on the Spring locations and that they move for the Summer.

So then the theory could be correct that they migrate anywhere from 20 to 50 miles between seasons, it seems that they would have a larger migration but that's based on instinct not research. 20 miles north huh, I'll map it out and go have a looksy on some days off in a month or so.

[BobbyO]

For within 20 miles of Goat Marsh I have a decent bunch of summer sightings, for 50 miles i have a hell of a lot.

Pretty sure I can break down 30 and 40 miles too.

When I get back from vacation I'll try to do a visualisation via a heat map so we can literally see what's what instead of just looking at numbers.

I may be out on that 20 miles North, it may be a little more.

The supposed location of the caves is just a little west of Rainier (Mt) ( Glacier View Wilderness ) and that was in the Fall, October, I looked it up.

Research Near Mt. Rainier, Washington

by Jeffrey Lemley

The following excerpts from the journal of the BFRO's Jeff Lemley relate to field investigations in the Glacier View Wilderness, near Mt. Rainier.

Oct. 4, 1999

I just received some new information from Don Anderson, a BFRO volunteer in the Puget Sound area. Don has been following up on a new cave in the Mt. Rainier area, that a friend told him about. This cave is allegedly quite large, and does not appear on any maps. It has been speculated that this cave could serve as shelter for a sasquatch population in the area, so we are trying to locate it for possible photo monitoring. While trying to locate this cave a week and a half ago, Don stumbled onto some tracks. I do not have the exact measurements yet, but one track was 20.5 inches long, and wider than his glasses (8-10"), which he placed in the track. The impression was over 4 inches deep, in fairly solid soil. This last weekend, Don returned to locate the cave again, and came across some very fresh tracks (he figures under 2-3 hours). The tracks were headed up an embankment, with a 60 degree pitch. Only the front of the foot was visible, due to the subject climbing the steep incline. All five toes were clearly visible. The ball of the foot was about 11" across. Of course, no length could be obtained due to the lack of heal print. He stated that the stride length heading up the embankment was about 7 feet. Don did not have any casting materials with him at the time, but did take several photos of the prints.

Oct. 6, 1999

Here are my findings after visiting Mt. Rainier National Park, the location the tracks were discovered in:

1. A few large impressions were noted (18-20"), but were inconclusive. Tracks appeared to be at least 2 months old, some as much as a couple of years or more. Stride lengths ranged 6 - 7 feet.

2. One smaller, partial track (juvenile?) was found in a culvert drainage ditch. The toes of the print were eroded, as the subject that had made them had been standing at the edge of the stream caused by the rain run-off, and its toes had been in the stream. The track was visible from the heel to the ball of the foot, so we were able to extrapolate the approximate overall length as roughly 12". Width was 5" at the ball. There were other substantial ground disturbances in the area, but nothing clear.

3. Both sets of tracks were inconclusive, and uncastable.

4. Several broken trees (10 - 12 feet tall) were noted in the area. Most broken at 6 - 6 1/2 feet off of the ground. For the first time, I was at a loss to locate another plausible source to attribute these particular breaks to. There were no other trees around the individuals to facilitate snowfall from a higher level, and they were not on a steep hill that would accommodate snowpack sliding down during spring thaw and causing the breaks. Even if the hill were steep enough, the breaks left the tops of the trees either pointing sideways, or back up the mild slope. This is not consistent with tree breaks caused by snow slides. They were also away from the road, and consequently any vehicle or piece of machinery that could strike them in passing. Ground disturbances were noted around the trees, but none were conclusive.

NOTE: One thing that we found interesting is that these trees were broken over an extended period, ranging from 2 - 3 years ago, to a few days ago. It's possible that one or more bigfoots have been living in this area for the past couple of years. The varying ages of the different impressions that were found also support this theory.

In summary, nothing conclusive was obtained, but I do feel that the inconclusive evidence warrant future investigations and monitoring of this area.

Oct. 9-10, 1999

Travelled back to Mt. Rainier to meet up with Don Anderson. I was accompanied by Bob and Autumn Williams. We drove up to the area where we had found the impressions earlier in the week, and set up camp. We managed to look around a bit before the sun went down, but didn't see much. Autumn and Bob thought they heard something scream way off in the distance, but were unsure. We broadcasted some calls from camp after dark. Don and Autumn thought they heard one response, once again way off in the distance, but were unsure. Don placed a bunch of fruit out away from the campsite, in hopes of attracting something in. The night passed uneventfully. The next day, we did some more scouting around, and found some more broken trees. We also found a very large pile of stool, that seemed a little large even for a bear. It appeared that whatever had passed the stool had been subsisting primarily on berries. Autumn collected the sample for analysis. We did find a few more impressions, including a series of impressions coming up a steep embankment along side the road. The impressions were old, but obviously had been made by something very large. They were fairly deep (1.5-2"), about 18" long, and 8" wide, with a stride length of about 6 feet. Autumn managed to capture all of them on film, but none were castable.

Oct. 23-24, 1999

I travelled up to Mt. Rainier, WA, again this weekend to meet up with Don Anderson, to try and establish the location of the infamous cave. Don did manage to enlist the help of 3 volunteers from the U.S. Army's 2nd Ranger Battalion, stationed at Ft. Lewis, WA. We pointed out the suspected cave location (from the road, you can see a shadowy overhang on a cliff located about 1 mile away and up a basalt-laden, extremely steep hill) to the trio, who were extremely fit and well equiped (night vision, thermal scopes, climbing gear, etc.). Their round trip took about 5 hours, and they discovered that the "cave" that we were looking at was just a shadowed overhand on the cliff face. So, we are left having to recontact the original cave discoverer, who lives in Texas, and try to get better directions to the cave. Don and I did find some fairly fresh, but uncastable, prints on Sunday afternoon. The rain from the previous night had eroded them substantially. They came up an embankment, crossed the road, and proceeded up the upper embankment and into the huckleberry fields. We found one track below the road, one on the soft bank above the road, and one in the berry bushes. The stride length, going uphill, was about 7 feet. You could make out toe cuts at the leading edge of the print, but the rest had been washed away for the most part. We did broadcast some calls from our campsite Saturday night, and 2 of our Ranger volunteers thought they heard a response, but no one else heard it. Also, on our last trip to the area, on Oct. 9 & 10, Don placed several pieces of fruit around the campsite, incl. some large pumpkins. Yesterday, we found the remains of one of the pumpkins (about a 20 pounder) about 60 yards from where it had been left. AND, we found it at the exact same spot that we had found a partial print 2 weeks prior, next to a culvert (water source?). All that remained of the pumpkin was the stem and some of the skin (the meaty part had been scraped clean) from around the top, and curiously, the seeds. Maybe Sasquatch doesn't like pumpkin seeds? More fruit was left at the campsite by Don (incl. more pumpkins).

SUMMARY:

Don made a couple more subsequent trips to the area, but did not turn up anything conclusive. We believe that any activity in the area had become minimized due to the presence of deer and elk hunters. The onset of winter has made the area inaccessible. We hope to return to the area as soon as the snow pack retreats in the spring, and continue to look for the cave.

Pacific Northwest Newsletter Front Page

[Guest]

For within 20 miles of Goat Marsh I have a decent bunch of summer sightings, for 50 miles i have a hell of a lot.

Pretty sure I can break down 30 and 40 miles too.

When I get back from vacation I'll try to do a visualisation via a heat map so we can literally see what's what instead of just looking at numbers.

I may be out on that 20 miles North, it may be a little more.

The supposed location of the caves is just a little west of Rainier (Mt) ( Glacier View Wilderness ) and that was in the Fall, October, I looked it up.

Research Near Mt. Rainier, Washington

by Jeffrey Lemley

The following excerpts from the journal of the BFRO's Jeff Lemley relate to field investigations in the Glacier View Wilderness, near Mt. Rainier.

Oct. 4, 1999

I just received some new information from Don Anderson, a BFRO volunteer in the Puget Sound area. Don has been following up on a new cave in the Mt. Rainier area, that a friend told him about. This cave is allegedly quite large, and does not appear on any maps. It has been speculated that this cave could serve as shelter for a sasquatch population in the area, so we are trying to locate it for possible photo monitoring. While trying to locate this cave a week and a half ago, Don stumbled onto some tracks. I do not have the exact measurements yet, but one track was 20.5 inches long, and wider than his glasses (8-10"), which he placed in the track. The impression was over 4 inches deep, in fairly solid soil. This last weekend, Don returned to locate the cave again, and came across some very fresh tracks (he figures under 2-3 hours). The tracks were headed up an embankment, with a 60 degree pitch. Only the front of the foot was visible, due to the subject climbing the steep incline. All five toes were clearly visible. The ball of the foot was about 11" across. Of course, no length could be obtained due to the lack of heal print. He stated that the stride length heading up the embankment was about 7 feet. Don did not have any casting materials with him at the time, but did take several photos of the prints.

Oct. 6, 1999

Here are my findings after visiting Mt. Rainier National Park, the location the tracks were discovered in:

1. A few large impressions were noted (18-20"), but were inconclusive. Tracks appeared to be at least 2 months old, some as much as a couple of years or more. Stride lengths ranged 6 - 7 feet.

2. One smaller, partial track (juvenile?) was found in a culvert drainage ditch. The toes of the print were eroded, as the subject that had made them had been standing at the edge of the stream caused by the rain run-off, and its toes had been in the stream. The track was visible from the heel to the ball of the foot, so we were able to extrapolate the approximate overall length as roughly 12". Width was 5" at the ball. There were other substantial ground disturbances in the area, but nothing clear.

3. Both sets of tracks were inconclusive, and uncastable.

4. Several broken trees (10 - 12 feet tall) were noted in the area. Most broken at 6 - 6 1/2 feet off of the ground. For the first time, I was at a loss to locate another plausible source to attribute these particular breaks to. There were no other trees around the individuals to facilitate snowfall from a higher level, and they were not on a steep hill that would accommodate snowpack sliding down during spring thaw and causing the breaks. Even if the hill were steep enough, the breaks left the tops of the trees either pointing sideways, or back up the mild slope. This is not consistent with tree breaks caused by snow slides. They were also away from the road, and consequently any vehicle or piece of machinery that could strike them in passing. Ground disturbances were noted around the trees, but none were conclusive.

NOTE: One thing that we found interesting is that these trees were broken over an extended period, ranging from 2 - 3 years ago, to a few days ago. It's possible that one or more bigfoots have been living in this area for the past couple of years. The varying ages of the different impressions that were found also support this theory.

In summary, nothing conclusive was obtained, but I do feel that the inconclusive evidence warrant future investigations and monitoring of this area.

Oct. 9-10, 1999

Travelled back to Mt. Rainier to meet up with Don Anderson. I was accompanied by Bob and Autumn Williams. We drove up to the area where we had found the impressions earlier in the week, and set up camp. We managed to look around a bit before the sun went down, but didn't see much. Autumn and Bob thought they heard something scream way off in the distance, but were unsure. We broadcasted some calls from camp after dark. Don and Autumn thought they heard one response, once again way off in the distance, but were unsure. Don placed a bunch of fruit out away from the campsite, in hopes of attracting something in. The night passed uneventfully. The next day, we did some more scouting around, and found some more broken trees. We also found a very large pile of stool, that seemed a little large even for a bear. It appeared that whatever had passed the stool had been subsisting primarily on berries. Autumn collected the sample for analysis. We did find a few more impressions, including a series of impressions coming up a steep embankment along side the road. The impressions were old, but obviously had been made by something very large. They were fairly deep (1.5-2"), about 18" long, and 8" wide, with a stride length of about 6 feet. Autumn managed to capture all of them on film, but none were castable.

Oct. 23-24, 1999

I travelled up to Mt. Rainier, WA, again this weekend to meet up with Don Anderson, to try and establish the location of the infamous cave. Don did manage to enlist the help of 3 volunteers from the U.S. Army's 2nd Ranger Battalion, stationed at Ft. Lewis, WA. We pointed out the suspected cave location (from the road, you can see a shadowy overhang on a cliff located about 1 mile away and up a basalt-laden, extremely steep hill) to the trio, who were extremely fit and well equiped (night vision, thermal scopes, climbing gear, etc.). Their round trip took about 5 hours, and they discovered that the "cave" that we were looking at was just a shadowed overhand on the cliff face. So, we are left having to recontact the original cave discoverer, who lives in Texas, and try to get better directions to the cave. Don and I did find some fairly fresh, but uncastable, prints on Sunday afternoon. The rain from the previous night had eroded them substantially. They came up an embankment, crossed the road, and proceeded up the upper embankment and into the huckleberry fields. We found one track below the road, one on the soft bank above the road, and one in the berry bushes. The stride length, going uphill, was about 7 feet. You could make out toe cuts at the leading edge of the print, but the rest had been washed away for the most part. We did broadcast some calls from our campsite Saturday night, and 2 of our Ranger volunteers thought they heard a response, but no one else heard it. Also, on our last trip to the area, on Oct. 9 & 10, Don placed several pieces of fruit around the campsite, incl. some large pumpkins. Yesterday, we found the remains of one of the pumpkins (about a 20 pounder) about 60 yards from where it had been left. AND, we found it at the exact same spot that we had found a partial print 2 weeks prior, next to a culvert (water source?). All that remained of the pumpkin was the stem and some of the skin (the meaty part had been scraped clean) from around the top, and curiously, the seeds. Maybe Sasquatch doesn't like pumpkin seeds? More fruit was left at the campsite by Don (incl. more pumpkins).

SUMMARY:

Don made a couple more subsequent trips to the area, but did not turn up anything conclusive. We believe that any activity in the area had become minimized due to the presence of deer and elk hunters. The onset of winter has made the area inaccessible. We hope to return to the area as soon as the snow pack retreats in the spring, and continue to look for the cave.

Pacific Northwest Newsletter Front Page

The area between Helens, Adams and Ranier is ripe with them I believe. Great info thanks, when u get back can u narrow it down to just Fall reports anywhere within the triangle of the 3 mntns? I wonder if that cave could have been an old mine, there's a site that lists all the closed mines in Wa. that people hunt for and explore if safe. A non-PNW(his friend was from TX) person might not know the difference...

[BobbyO]

Yeah pretty much I can do that.

I'll spilt the seasons completely.

[BobbyO]

I've got something interesting on that Guys.

I used Randle as my point of reference and a 30 mile radius of it, and sightings within Fall only, 17 of them.

Firstly the moon.

The consecutive moon phases of the Waxing Gibbous, Full Moon and Waning Gibbous represent 88% of those sightings.

Those 3 consecutive moon phases seem to be the most popular and generally most common, but not normally by that much.

Also, I'm seeing mainly bi annual reports in this area, all bar 1997 and 1999 in the last 25 years for the Fall.

Working backwards, the reports go 08-06-04-02-02-00-00-00-99-98-98-97-94-90.

I'll have to match up other seasons to try and fill in the gaps.

[Guest]

I've got something interesting on that Guys.

I used Randle as my point of reference and a 30 mile radius of it, and sightings within Fall only, 17 of them.

Firstly the moon.

The consecutive moon phases of the Waxing Gibbous, Full Moon and Waning Gibbous represent 88% of those sightings.

Those 3 consecutive moon phases seem to be the most popular and generally most common, but not normally by that much.

Also, I'm seeing mainly bi annual reports in this area, all bar 1997 and 1999 in the last 25 years for the Fall.

Working backwards, the reports go 08-06-04-02-02-00-00-00-99-98-98-97-94-90.

I'll have to match up other seasons to try and fill in the gaps.

Dont you think the 3 phases have to do with increased visibility since their the brighest phases? More light, more visuals. I wonder if the high % of sightings in Fall are cause of hunters(thus more possibility of visuals) and not because of increased movement by these animals? Food for thought but we have to start somewhere...