Release Of Forensic Dna Results For Sierra Kills Sample

[Guest]

Wud,

this is a very complex issue. The debate happening is healthy, and much needed. My guess is that if these results had anything to do with something you'd worked on relentlessly for five years you'd also like to examine all possibilities. I can say from personal experience, the more you learn about Mitochondrial, nuclear and Gnome testing, the easier it is to understand this discussion. I can appreciate both sides of this discussion, and I REALLY appreciate TOMAfoot sharing his / or her knowledge on this subject.

DR

Wud,

I'm sorry, I didn't mean that to be a shot at you. If it sounds that way I apologize. I should have read you last post a little better. I also agree that this will be understood better when Melbas study is released. I think that the time to challenge a study is after it's been put forth, not before. I know Bart and Tyler have their own reasons, and I respect them both, just my personal opinion.

DR

[southernyahoo]

Where was it asserted that the BF haplogroup was A? That would contradict Stubstad's report that said it was H.

The Haplotype for BF in this sample is purportedly A from Tyler/Bart/Justin and also same as Justin, however there are deeper level subclades which have not been ironed out with T&B's testing.

[Guest]

I have no desire or intention to take sides in this debate, but shouldn't we keep in mind that Ketchum ran mtDNA tests on multiple samples submitted to her?

Without the Smeja sample, she still has over a hundred pieces of purported BF 'evidence' to work with.

No, she has ~20 mtDNA findings with 3 of those supposedly yeilding whole genome sequences.

And there's still no evidence to show she claimed that Smeja's sample tested positive for her "unknown".

Yup, but that's not good enough for some. They want the info NOW, and while they aren't paying for the analysis, feel privy to EVERYTHING that the research finds. I find this blatant display of instant gratification to be disgusting, if not stretching into realms of bullying. Some believe that it's perfectly appropriate to assassinate Ketchum's charcter when they don't get what they feel they deserve. This isn't Burger King where they can have their Whopper their way and become irate when the they have to sit in the drive through for more than 5 minutes.

People can find something else to do while Ketchum does things the way she wants to on her own dime. I'm getting that way as this forum degrades into threads such as this.

Ironic much, wude?

You just described the entirety of the Skeptical poo-flinging at Ketchum because she won't risk her paper's chances at finally being published to appease a bunch of self-righteous internet Skeptics and their displays of demanding instant gratification that passed bullying ages ago and is rapidly blazing a trail towards virtual extortion.

[Guest]

Is it possible that other samples were used for the core of the study that she knew were handled correctly and not contaminated,

and the other samples with similes were used in collaboration to support the core samples ?

Edited January 6, 2013 by zigoapex

[Guest]

Where might one read the actual analysis of Pinker, Moore, and these others? Not second or third-hand retelling of something, but the actual analysis they authored.

Would that change the conclusion? I'll freely admit I don't have access to their direct findings.

Yes, if that source isn't representing the study properly.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Jerrymanderer

[Guest]

makes sense to me...

Of course 1) we don't know if it was a female source..and 2)If she used a sample obtained and handled by Smeja, scientific protocol would call for a sample of his DNA UP FRONT before any testing at all.

If it's true Justin's wife sent the sample while he was away hunting wouldn't she need her DNA?

It's known Justin had obtained, handled and packaged the sample.

[Guest LAL]

^How is this known? Is it known his wife couldn't have contributed any female DNA?

[Guest]

^How is this known? Is it known his wife couldn't have contributed any female DNA?

I saw his interview. He wrapped the sample in tin foil (then in some other package) and put it in a freezer for storage. If his wife shipped it out, it was already wrapped up and packaged.

Edited January 6, 2013 by ronn1

[Guest wudewasa]

Derek,

No quarrel, just tired of the backstabbing and attitudes here by some. We can agree that there are more unknowns than knowns right now. It's appropriate to say "We don't know" if we really don't know. That's the kind of honesty that I can appreciate instead of immediately calling someone out as a hoaxer or incompetent. I'm not saying that you are doing this, but the comments by some posters really are getting to be inflammatory.

[Guest]

Is it possible that other samples were used for the core of the study that she knew were handled correctly and not contaminated,

and the other samples with similes were used in collaboration to support the core samples ?

There are ways of taking into account the comtamination from handling etc. I'm sure she had to deal with that as a factor in ALL her samples.

Why didn't Ketchum request a sample of Smeja's DNA along with his sample? According to Bart, Smejia definitely sent her sample and she knew how that sample was obtained as well..with Justin handling it.

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

Btw, Dr. Ketchum commented on this sample and said that this isn't what she did her testing on:

Is this the sample that Bart and Tyler worked with?

[Guest]

She probably did not ask him for a sample because she knows what she is looking for, and standard Human DNA was no longer an issue with her. She is not going to confuse Smeja's DNA, with Bigfoots, because she is no longer asking the question "What is it?", she is asking "Is it there?"

[Guest]

Who submits a bear steak for DNA analysis? More importantly, IMO, is what does Justin think happened?

Edited January 6, 2013 by Gigantofootecus

[Guest]

If she used Smejas sample and his DNA is there... realizing that his DNA sequences are NOT in in a Genbank.... ..she should have gotten a SAMPLE of his DNA..RIGHT? If she used his sample..and it appears she very well may have ...she has a real problem here. Like I said..Smeja went on record as saying she NEVER asked for his DNA. Had she used a sample from a truly anonymous source, she *could* have gotten away with claiming unique DNA.

BUT...if she KNOWINGLY used his sample without using his DNA as a reference..that taints her entire study.

I will qualify all this as speculation..since I don't know for certain if Ketchum *went there*.

Yes, she should have asked for a sample from anyone who handled the sample. The sample was a piece of skin the size of a postage stamp that Smeja's wife mailed for him per Dr. Ketchum's directions for packaging. According to Smeja he had two pounds of geasy fat tissue not this thing that looks like a cat toy, so on that account, I agree with Ketchum. I also agree that Justin is the only one I've heard say that she did not request his sample. If Derek Randles said, I never read it. It really doesn't look like what Justin described as being sent via his wife. I'm pretty certain I am not confused on this point.

Wud,

this is a very complex issue. The debate happening is healthy, and much needed. My guess is that if these results had anything to do with something you'd worked on relentlessly for five years you'd also like to examine all possibilities. I can say from personal experience, the more you learn about Mitochondrial, nuclear and Gnome testing, the easier it is to understand this discussion. I can appreciate both sides of this discussion, and I REALLY appreciate TOMAfoot sharing his / or her knowledge on this subject.

DR

I know that was a typo Derek, but I couldn't resist, sasquatch are more akin to Trolls than Gnomes.

[Guest]

There are ways of taking into account the comtamination from handling etc. I'm sure she had to deal with that as a factor in ALL her samples.

Why didn't Ketchum request a sample of Smeja's DNA along with his sample? According to Bart, Smejia definitely sent her sample and she knew how that sample was obtained as well..with Justin handling it.

there is samples that were collected from areas with the subject in view, and the samples were taking right after that, she also witnessed were they collect a sample in the same manner .