Release Of Forensic Dna Results For Sierra Kills Sample

[Guest spurfoot]

Good theory VioletX. The third person would likely be someone who had easy access to the house, was concerned that Justin's assessment of non-prosecution might be incorrect, and whose interests in Justin's financial and legal safety coincided with the third person's own interests. I leave it to you to infer who that might be. As you say VioletX, both Justin and MK might have reason to believe their own story, but, not the third person.

On another matter, much has been made about Ketchum not seeking a DNA specimen from Justin Smeja. She didn't need to do so. She is an experienced forensic investigator and would have naturally taken a DNA specimen from the internal packaging in which the alleged BF specimen arrived.

As for the Trent results, a simple DNA probe would have been inadequate to determine BF. A complete genome analysis would be required to cover all possibilities.

[Guest BartloJays]

On another matter, much has been made about Ketchum not seeking a DNA specimen from Justin Smeja. She didn't need to do so. She is an experienced forensic investigator and would have naturally taken a DNA specimen from the internal packaging in which the alleged BF specimen arrived.

As for the Trent results, a simple DNA probe would have been inadequate to determine BF. A complete genome analysis would be required to cover all possibilities.

1) Justin didn't handle packaging and if he had, how would she distinguish for sure that's his dna. I would suspect even Dr. Ketchum would say you were giving her too much credit to be able to successfully do that with confidence.

2) Trent is a very reputable lab and "the go-to guy," if you will for sophisticated animal diagnostic animal cases in NA. They are pretty notorious. What you're suggesting is not exactly how things work but I'd prefer someone more educated in this area ala CTfoot, GenesRus, tomafoot etc... appropriately answer you.

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

David75090 your last name doesn't happen to be Paulides by any chance?

Writing style is a definite match. I think it is. Welcome Mr, Paulides!

[david75090]

Writing style is a definite match. I think it is. Welcome Mr, Paulides!

BS

How about she not worry about what we’re doing and worry about her own study? The alternatives, as we’ve been over this repeatedly, is to bury results on her behalf after our testing (hard for me to even say those words) or not follow through testing and ignore what we knew internally that made us test in first place.

Instead of us justifying why or discussing the impetus to independently screening or vetting the sample let’s pretend it’s our business and or even better, Justin’s right with no explanation needed. He can do whatever he wants and no one owes her the courtesy and frankly, “trust†(with mistrust she created) to wait for her paper indefinitely to find out what the sample is.

You’re also insinuating desperate “impatience†was some type of motive for testing and that’s just absolutely not true. Not once have I (nor have I heard Tyler) complained about the paper taking too long.

Couldn't the shoe be on the other foot? Is it possible for others to not worry about what she's doing and let her finish? Doesn't the peer review process check what she's doing? Why do others feel they must step in, outside the peer review process, and check her work? Aren't accredited reviewers already doing that? All supposing there is an actual paper being reviewed.

[Guest]

What makes you bring up lemurs?

Hi Tyler - thank you (and Bart) for your efforts and patience here.

I have been witness over three seasons to extra-ordinary eyeshine I do associate with these Bigfoots. From 5' (once) to about 20-40 yards (thrice) to one hundred yards, many times. I also have some funky video that shows this 30 yard witness in B&W from a long running camera, and also a Sony nightshot video while walking. I am not alone in these witnesses (see Eye Shine witnesses thread)

It seems to me for this level of brightness and control (you can pm me and I will share unfinished blog/website)) a Tapetum Lucidum would be a decent explanation. Lemurs have such, although their divergence from the primate line seems to be around 50YBP.

However, it seems possible that the genes or protein coding (excuse my lack of understanding) could remain latent in the primate line and reemerge (if they ever went away in some fossil lines, we don't have DNA or soft tissue to evaluate most ancient hominins) in BFs...even if they are not close relatives.

Two other things crop up among other researchers (I haven't any objective data for really - hand in video not quite good enough, and hand swipes in mud also hard to interpret..), the possibility of a pseudo opposable thumb (would explain lack of material culture maybe, and yet seem more dexterous than great apes) which lemurs also have.

Also, Moneymaker claims Matilda has a Rhinum, or pad like nose....I could find little support for that, a few however compelling witness accounts..(see Bigfoot's Face thread).most report the BF is so hairy they cannot see the entire nose.

Anyway, again all those features are in lemur line..and apparently 10,000 species (wow) and up til 2000ybp a 400pound sloth...also lemurs have the same mythology as BFs (well almost - supernatural and human attributes) and do walk upright (although different name than bi-pedal). whew! A bit off topic, but didn't want to be too cryptic.

I can say my personal view, from my experiences, is they are in the genus Homo, and yet there are these features that seem "remote." I feel genus Homo primarily based on their fantastic whistling and general similarity to us (tracks, overall form, face). Although, apparently humans can see near IR with massive doses of Vitamin A and some infants have an archaic TL which dissolves over the first months. (I haven't found first sources on those, haven't looked - so if someone knows please inform). So maybe those features aren't so remote?

Also, I don't think there is a precedent for bio-luminescence in primates? But, an interesting article by David Claerr on a Minnesota "Nanchuck" or something..seems like a bio-luminescence...?

Hi Bart - someone may have asked, so I apologize if this is a repeat:

If Wally Hersom has funded most of the study it seems sharing the complete final version (the submitted version) with him would have already been done. Has it?

I don't think there is anything in Journal embargo or peer-review process that prevents Dr. Ketchum from sharing privately with her customer ...?

Edited January 24, 2013 by apehuman

[southernyahoo]

One thought here: if Justin is being so transparent about the whole Sierra Kills, then where are the cell phone pics that could put this thing to rest. Does he now dismiss ever having made those pictures of bodies or not?

Good question, I'd also like some clarification on that one of the supposed dead juvenile. Taken by Smeja or the driver..etc. I would think if Smeja has no fear of prosecution and wants all the facts out then he would put everything in the open, "transparency" being so highly valued around here lately.

[Guest Thepattywagon]

I don't recall Justin ever saying he took pics of any 'body', only the piece of hide he found later. The lack of any photographic evidence taken the day of the shooting is something I have always had a problem with, for many reasons.

Bart, you said Justin didn't handle packaging, but wasn't he the person who initially handled and divided up the 'steak'?

[Guest slimwitless]

The only concievable reason for not taking a picture is out of fear it could be used to incriminate them in a crime (which would also explain hiding the body and speeding away from the scene). Either that or we don't know the truth, IMO.

Edited January 24, 2013 by slimwitless

[Guest Tyler H]

Tyler gave MK the opportunity to release some of the information from her study, ahead of the study, to him, prior to everyone else. Thus Tyler would be privy to the study before it is published. To me, it looks like some people can't, or won't, wait for the paper to be published. They want it NOW and if they can't get it NOW they'll do what they can to force it's release NOW. And they can't seem to figure out why MK is being so uncooperative about their magnanamous offer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCJvHnmtSEQ

you win!

Tyler gave MK the opportunity to release some of the information from her study, ahead of the study, to him, prior to everyone else. Thus Tyler would be privy to the study before it is published. To me, it looks like some people can't, or won't, wait for the paper to be published. They want it NOW and if they can't get it NOW they'll do what they can to force it's release NOW. And they can't seem to figure out why MK is being so uncooperative about their magnanamous offer.

This statement is such a riotous joke. Just truly laughable. I have said this 100 times now, and I can't even believe I am answering this yet again, but here goes:

I never asked to see the study.

I promised Derek Randles that I would inform him of my results before releasing them. In an effort to allow people in the BF community to try to make certain of their claims and results etc, I wanted to give them a heads-up. I did that.

As a result of that, Melba reached out to me, asking me to re-think my release. I said "I might re-think being open and transparent abuot the actual hard science I have in my hands... but you can give me any compelling evidence that can make me doubt the results I have". I lowered the bar on the standard of "evidence" twice. In the end, I said "Fine, just let me talk to ONE PhD that can say 'I have worked with Justin's tissue sample, and I support Melba's conclusion that it is evidence of an undiscovered hominin/primate.' If you can do that, I'll re-think what I'm doing regarding the release of my results, and the timing of it"

I said this knowing full well that I was NOT asking for ANYTHING that she had not already said publically. I just wanted ONE PhD who was ready to put their reputation on the line. Apparently NONE were. And I had every expectation that yet again, Melba would not follow through on her ostensible willingness to provide the assurances she promised. This just proved it. There was NO information that I was asking to see that was not already public. I merely asked for a PhD other than Melba to "second it". So this statement "Thus Tyler would be privy to the study before it is published" is false.

As for the Trent results, a simple DNA probe would have been inadequate to determine BF. A complete genome analysis would be required to cover all possibilities.

May I enquire as to your credentials to make this statement?

I complete genome maping is absolutely NOT required to make a species identification. If it WAS BF, then sure, a whole genome would be nice. But it wasn't - it was bear. I'm happy to get someone to map the whole genome of the contributor if you like. Email me privately on this board, and I'll give you the address that you can send the check to.

[Bonehead74]

One thought here: if Justin is being so transparent about the whole Sierra Kills, then where are the cell phone pics that could put this thing to rest. Does he now dismiss ever having made those pictures of bodies or not?

Back before we knew Justin as Justin, I remember General mentioning that he was given a new phone from the someone, (possibly the Olympic Project, IIRC. The old memory bank is a bit fuzzy...), and was using it to post here on the BFF. What I don't remember is if he mentioned what phone it replaced, if any. Perhaps he or Derekfoot could confirm this, and, if my memory is correct, describe what cellphone Justin owned at the time of the claimed shooting incident. It's a stretch to think that he either didn't own a cellphone at the time, or owned one without a (working?) camera, but I suppose it is possible, and would explain the lack of photographic evidence.

[Guest Thepattywagon]

I can't imagine anyone under the age of 40 whose cell phone didn't have a camera function.

IIRC, Justin said something about pics of the steak being on his wife's phone? I'd have to go check, but that is my recollection.

[Cotter]

Patty, i have a phone with a camera on it, but it's so scratched up all I get is blurry pictures in heavy fog...

Just sayin'....if Justin is as hard on equipment as I am when outdoors, it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't worth taking a picture....

Just my 2 cents.

[Guest slimwitless]

Justin didn't take a picture for the same reason he didn't take the body.

Edited January 24, 2013 by slimwitless

[Guest]

On December 26th, Justin Smeja said:

For now I'll spare you the lengthy details. I will have plenty to say in the next few days when I do a release of my own.

I don't know if anyone else would, but I'd still like to hear those lengthy details from the star witness.

Justin, if you will answer, do you still have plenty to say a month later?

[Guest]

dear Mr Human, or is that Ape-Human? or simply mr ape? i am not sure,

However could you provide me a reference for your information that there are 10,000 species of lemurs (which you mentioned below?)

Thank you!

Hi Tyler - thank you (and Bart) for your efforts and patience here.

Anyway, again all those features are in lemur line..and apparently 10,000 species (wow) and up til 2000ybp a 400pound sloth