Hoaxes, Hoaxers, Frauds, And Con-Men In The Bigfoot Community

[Guest thermalman]

I have NO reason to include Ketchum.

[Guest RayG]

So, if I didn't include the name, why did you ask?

RayG

[Guest thermalman]

So, if I didn't include the name, why did you ask?

RayG

Because it's your list.

[Guest]

So, if I didn't include the name, why did you ask?

RayG

Probably because the intention of your post seems to be to provocatively include the names of some of the most revered people in Bigfootery with some of the most reprehensible under the larger umbrella of "hoaxer". There is little doubt that you expected some of the names on that list to be questioned, correct? It's provocative, it's thought-provoking, it's discussion-inducing. None of those things are bad, but at first glance it seems like a strange list.

[Guest]

I do not see any reason to submit anything for potential revision, I do not see any sign of a qualified list, only a broad statement inviting inflammatory responses, definitively something that belongs in this tar pit we hear of. After this response, I am certainly not interested in rehashing the same old hack anymore. Enjoy the "debate".

[Guest RayG]

Probably because the intention of your post seems to be to provocatively include the names of some of the most revered people in Bigfootery with some of the most reprehensible under the larger umbrella of "hoaxer". There is little doubt that you expected some of the names on that list to be questioned, correct?

All the names/incidents listed have some form of hoaxing associated with them or attributed to them. It may seem a very small touch of hoaxing/chicanery, or it may be a full-blown, elaborate hoax, but there are sources for each of them.

It's provocative, it's thought-provoking, it's discussion-inducing. None of those things are bad, but at first glance it seems like a strange list.

I was hoping for it to be not only thought-provoking and discussion-inducing, but informative as well.

RayG

[See-Te-Cah NC]

I would like to say something about this topic.

RayG has stated his intention for starting this topic. He has also added a disclaimer stating that it isn't an official BFF stance or the opinion of the staff, which it isn't. Although he is a staff member, RayG is also a member, and as a member he has the right to post this topic. Nowhere in our rules does it state that the staff can't have an opinion or be skeptical. RayG has presented his opinion and evidence for discussion just as numerous other members - skeptical and proponent alike - have done.

I have watched RayG step up to serve all of the forum members, regardless of their stance on the subject. He has been both fair and diligent in his duties. While his topic might not be popular with some, it is nonetheless an allowable topic on our forum according to the rules.

[southernyahoo]

It is my understanding that some researchers have made wooden feet to study the impressions made or practice casting. This wouldn't strike me as hoaxing , unless the casts were presented as evidence. It could certainly be later miscontrued to be an act of hoaxing by subsequent inquiries by cynics whom might twist the intent.

[Guest]

I would have included ALBERT OSTMAN.

[Guest wudewasa]

And the slam book commences!

[Rockape]

I would have included ALBERT OSTMAN.

If "proven hoax" isn't going to be the standard, why stop there?

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

And just what evidence is there that suggests Albert Ostman was a hoaxer? The lack of a bigfoot body doesn't count......

Overall, I'm seeing names on that list that just don't deserve to be there.

Edited January 6, 2013 by OntarioSquatch

[bipedalist]

And the slam book commences!

Special guest member appearance by "Kit Carson" Kitakaze couldn't be far behind...... LOL!

[roguefooter]

Nah, I'll give you some sources & quotes too...

Patterson isn't on the list because of the PGF, he's on there for his habit of accepting membership request money, but failing to mail back any memberships. Similar con games still exist today. Patterson is also on there because of this:

"The shape of a footprint can be dug into the ground with the fingers and/or a hand tool, the interior pressed flat, and it can then be photographed or cast in plaster. My first footprint cast was made by a student in just this manner (Fig.10). Roger Patterson told me he did this once in order to get a movie of himself pouring a plaster cast for the documentary he was making. (A few days later, he filmed the actual Sasquatch; See Chapter 4)." -- Dr. Grover Krantz, Big Footprints, page 32 (my bolding)

I don't know where you got your info but Patterson did mail out his membership newsletters- I have issue numbers 3 & 4. How is that possible if he "failed to mail back any memberships"?

Also, making casts for a documentary has no relation to hoaxing whatsoever. How else are you going to demonstrate how to cast a track for a documentary? Considering that the castings at Bluff Creek show no signs of being dug out by hand, this reason for calling him a hoaxer makes no sense.

[bipedalist]

Plus one when I get a few back RF!