Tired Of The Negativity, Cynicism And Backseat Researching? Read This.

[Guest DWA]

Well, now you're talking.

Benign racism combined with European beliefs (our 'wildmen' are myths, this one is too) to move sasquatch beyond the pale of what Europeans thought reasonable to encounter in America. Ignored was that first, all cultures have myths and second, the Natives said the same things about the animals we catalogued; they had powers and legends surrounding them too.

I just don't think they conflated sasquatch with "us." They considered them different from humans.

[dmaker]

You'd be hard pressed to find many cultures that are not intertwined with nature in a profound way. The indigenous peoples of North America have no monopoly on this. I'd wager a lot of the members of this forums' heritage can be traced back to Celtic roots. And I don't mean modern Welsh-Irish-Scottish Celtic solely, I mean pre-Roman Celts. When the Celtic culture covered most of Europe. Druidism was very much intertwined with nature in a very profound way. Roman expansion was not kind to druids. The rise of Christianity took up the task where Rome left it. Bye bye Druidism. Also as cultures age and become more modern they tend to take their natural myths less literally. They don't disappear altogether, but they remain as myths, not descriptions of the world around them because Science has filled in quite a few blanks that used to be filled by myth.

The argument for Sasquatch in the native context could go either way I suppose. You could say that since there are so many reports still occurring and this creature was mentioned in myth ( and is still mentioned today), that maybe that lends credence to the argument for its' existence. Greeks don't run around reporting Cyclops sightings, but it is definitely part of Ancient Greek mythology. So one might argue that the fact that we still talk about Sasquatch, and report it, that it has survived the pushing back into the shadow of myth like so many other creature concepts, that maybe there is more to it.

I would not argue that personally, but I can see the merit in that tack. I would lean more toward it's just a myth that happens to have survived because people like the idea of a boogeyman. The idea of a half man-half something creature is almost universal to the human experience. We are fascinated by humanoid creatures for some reason. I would argue that is the genesis of Sasquatch and that is where it remains. But that's just me.

Edited February 14, 2013 by dmaker

[Guest DWA]

Well, as Alley puts it: legends tend not to jump cultures very well. This one seems to have made a most robust jump.

It's hard to disentangle how we got on this tack if sasquatch is real. Overemphasis on the 'myth' aspect, bolstered by European awareness of one of their own myths, is as close as I can come.

[dmaker]

^^ Not really. Humanoid creatures in myth are pretty commonly found around the globe. Alley may be looking at it too specifically. Broadly speaking there are myths of creatures that are part man, part animal, or some sort of mingling of man and animal from one corner of the planet to the next. Not just the classic Western civ experience.

Edited February 14, 2013 by dmaker

[Guest DWA]

No, Alley means, for example, that we don't see both Natives and non-Native Americans sharing the legend that Coyote and Raven Created the World.

Yes, all cultures have their myths. What he's pointing at is that here, both Natives and non-Natives are reporting that this one's real. That's not routine.

Edited February 14, 2013 by DWA

[Guest]

@dmaker. I'm talking about modern perception...like say, the last 50 years or so.

[dmaker]

No, Alley means, for example, that we don't see both Natives and non-Native Americans sharing the legend that Coyote and Raven Created the World.

Yes, all cultures have their myths. What he's pointing at is that here, both Natives and non-Natives are reporting that this one's real. That's not routine.

I see what you're saying now. But again, not sure how that makes Sasquatch in any way that unique. If we were talking about a native creature of myth that had no bearing to other cultures ( or even European ones), then I could see this point being interesting. It's not like Europeans came here and suddenly starting seeing pink, flying, three headed crows ( hypothetical--I don't actually think such a myth exists in native culture) along with a long standing native tradition of said creature. What is being shared is a pretty common mythological archetype. So I don't believe it's hard to imagine that European minds are much more suggestive to such a creature. Add to that the hoaxing that purportedly started in the late 1950's, and voila, you have Bigfoot.

Edited February 14, 2013 by dmaker

[Guest DWA]

What militates against that, for me, is that Euros came to this continent believing as a culture that wildmen aren't real; Natives have, apparently, always seen them as real. I don't see the basis for widespread sighting reports by non-Natives, particularly when the animal being described connects more to the great apes than the European wildman archetype.

[dmaker]

Yeah, but the wildman notion was not new to Europeans, so Bigfoot tales would resonate pretty soundly with them, and they still believed in witches. Do you really think Bigfoot would have been a huge stretch for them?

Edited February 14, 2013 by dmaker

[Guest DWA]

Well, here is where we are left with the evidence.

My stab at it may not be perfect, but it's an effort to explain something that seems not to make sense...but still needs explaining. And there is way too much stuff out there for a toss-off explanation that doesn't examine it.

[dmaker]

^^ Agreed. My stab is not perfect either, but it's what makes sense to me as well.

[Guest wudewasa]

A historical perspective that should not be construed as religious discussion-

Before the introduction of Christianity to Europe, the aboriginal peoples were tribal, honored their ancestors and local nature spirits and gods. They interacted with the landscape and were dependent upon its resources. When Rome began to assimilate these tribes into their nation state, the cultural beliefs of the indigenous peoples had to be discarded so that they would submit to Roman ideologies and ultimately, Roman rule. Ballance did not exist, only the need to extract resources to benefit the Roman machine.

Then, the religion of Christianity was introduced. The path of Christianity was not in the land, but in a building where the deity was said to communicate to the people via the priest. Laws were given to scare people into accepting beliefs and an abstract projection of guilt was utilized in something called a sin. Old traditions were discouraged, and any tribal story was relegated to demonic worship. The detachment to the old ways was effective. So, trolls, orgres, grendel, and bigfoot type creatures were relegated into evil, the wild places were transformed as the lairs of horrible creatures and spirits, and people forgot who they were. Only remants of the indigenous beliefs remain in folk tales, sagas, a few pieces art and archaeological finds. Likewise, land use practices changed, the old growth forests and wild places succumbed to tthe needs of a growing population and industrial progress.

Lets move about 2000 years forward to the mass European colonization of the New World. The sins of the father were visited upon the son. The landscape of the Americas was ripped to shreds to glean natural resources, the indigenous people enslaved, and their own traditions and languages ripped from them and as recently as the 20th century, forced assimilation programs were instituted by the US government. What horrible actions happened in Europe 2000 years ago happened in the Americas only 500. There are still wild places left, and conservation has helped preserve our natural resources. If something like sasquatch exists, it has a shot to persist. Any such creature in Europe does not share a similar fate- too long and too brutal industrial persecution. Likewise, many American aboriginals have their languages, stories and traditions somewhat if not mostly intact. They have the folk memory and landscape to remember and possibly interact with bigfoot. I wish them luck, as the trappings of my own ancestors are fragmented and forgotten.

[Guest SoFla]

This is one of the most intriging reports I have ever read. It talks about the creature and a civilian talking in the Sasquatc's own language...I got this from BF Evidence

Dear Shawn:

I was reading some of the stories about Mt. Saint Helen on the message boards and wanted to share this one. I only ask that you withhold my name.

I was a National Guardsman at the Mount Saint Helen site and this is the first time I have ever spoken about what I saw firsthand. I lived in Spokane, Washington and was 24 at the time this all took place.

I have read some of the other stories and they only tell part of the story.

I was placed on a special cleanup crew farther up the mountain. A large tent was set up and it was be guarded by armed soldiers who were not part of the guard. There were numerous soldiers on the scene that were not members of the guard.

We were given a briefing by soldier who said that “after he spoke to us, we would forget about him and what he said at the end of the missionâ€. This was strange as we never dealt with anything before.

Myself and four other guardsmen were told to follow a group of soldiers and not to speak to each other and to remain very quiet overall. We were told to get into a jeep and wait. We sat in the jeep for maybe a half hour. Eventually another jeep arrived carrying a civilian and another member of the military.

The civilian was brought into the tent and he emerged a few minutes later followed by a large hairy creature. It looked like a large man covered in fur and the best way to describe it was like “Beast†from X-Men only brown.

The creature looked to have some burns and had a bandage on its arm. At first we were afraid but when it walked by we could see its eyes and it just looked very sad and somber. He climbed into the back of a pickup with the civilian and the two were speaking in a weird language I had never heard. It would cough at times.

We followed the truck to different areas. There were 5 total stops. Each time we stopped we were told to follow the civilian and the creature. Each time we followed them to rocky areas where there were caves. The creature would make a sound and then listen. At the first area he made a sound and we all just waited in silence. After a few minutes, the creature looked at the civilian and then at the ground. The civilian at one point touched its shoulder and called for a canteen to give the creature a drink.

The same thing happened at the next area but this time there was a response to the sound. After a few minutes two soldiers emerged from the cave carrying a badly burned creature just like the one with the civilian. The creature bent down next to it and looked it over for about five minutes. It then spoke softly with the civilian. It turned and walked back to the truck and we were told to follow as we were walking away we heard a shot and we knew it was one of the soldiers putting the creature out of its misery.

There was no response at the third or fourth site but at the fifth there was another return sound to the creature. This time it was different and soldiers carried out a creature with a badly burned left leg. We were then ordered to all help get a very large stretcher from the truck and to help place the creature on it and carry it back to the truck.

We then immediately returned to the base camp. The creature was carried into the tent while the other creature and the civilian spoke. We were ordered to stay in the jeep until we were to be debriefed. As the creature turned to walk into the tent it looked at us and made a waving gesture with its hand. We took it as a thank you for what we had done.

By the time we were ordered out of the jeep we were all in shock. We were called over to an area to be debriefed and it was just strange. I will never forget what was said because it was just not what was expected. I thought I would hear “You took an oath and now you need to live up to it for your country with a threat also implied. A different high ranking soldier just said “look, do you all really want an explanation? You saw what we were doing. These creatures live in these areas; they mean no harm and want to be left alone. Do you really want to do anything that may cause them trouble? They are like us in a lot of ways. If you need or want to talk about this just wait about 30 years, by that time there will likely be no reason to keep them a secretâ€.

We were then ordered back to the guard camp because “they were breaking it up so nobody saw too much and knew everything that happenedâ€. We did not speak of it and after a few months I just took the attitude that these things live out there and honestly my life is no different because of it. I only bring it up now because people have been writing a lot about MT. Saint Helen and I believe that the whole story should be told.

I will also say this. I like to camp and hike and have done so many times throughout the Northwest. Every time I would look for signs of these creatures, tracks, listen for sounds etc. I never saw or heard anything other than what I did that day on Mt. Saint Helen.

[Guest]

@ wudewasa: Excellent post. Eloquently described.

@ sofla: I think might have read something similar before somewhere but wow, just wow, what a tale! I hope it's true.

[Guest TxNative]

Ditto the above remarks!

Wow,.....indeed! I'm curious......any opinions about the site from which this Q&A was obtained? The reason I'm asking is.....this account of SoFla supports

some of the claims I read at that site,.....language and mutual communication,... actual cooperation between those beings & humans (habituation?)....and if we soon have proof of such,( as well as other claims)....then there is no half-human / half- ape/animal (aren't we all animals?)...but a half-human...yet-to-be determined-other-half hybrid. Has this matter already been discussed....here at BFF? . I'm relatively new here...so I don't want to be redundant....but I'm intrigued by what I've read tonight. Is there something I should know?

Edited February 15, 2013 by TxNative