The Ketchum Report (Continued)

[georgerm]

Interesting narrative on lemurs.

Lemurs (ⁱ/ˈliËmÉ™r/ LEE-mÉ™r) are a clade of strepsirrhine primates endemic to the island of Madagascar. The word "lemur" derives from the word lemures (ghosts or spirits) from Roman mythology and was first used to describe a slender loris due to its nocturnal habits and slow pace, but was later applied to the primates on Madagascar. Although lemurs often are confused with ancestral primates, the anthropoid primates (monkeys, apes, and humans) did not evolve from them; instead, lemurs merely share morphological and behavioral traits with basal primates. Lemurs arrived in Madagascar around 62 to 65 mya by rafting on mats of vegetation at a time when ocean currents favored oceanic dispersal to the island. Since that time, lemurs have evolved to cope with an extremely seasonal environment and their adaptations give them a level of diversity that rivals that of all other primate groups. Until shortly after humans arrived on the island around 2,000 years ago, there were lemurs as large as a male gorilla

Below is a March 1st video teleconference with several geneticist, and they pretty much debunk the Ketchum paper. Pretty interesting.

http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/nekaris-ketchum-sasquatch-dna-study/

[Cotter]

The intelligence level of lemurs is impressive.

Raft riding? Understanding ocean currents?

Either that or they're extrememly lucky.

[Guest]

The intelligence level of lemurs is impressive.

Raft riding? Understanding ocean currents?

Either that or they're extrememly lucky.

"Raft" is a misnomer. Basically, they're referring to trees and other debris that got swept out into the ocean. See http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=swept-away

[Guest J Sasq Doe]

Below is a March 1st video teleconference with several geneticist, and they pretty much debunk the Ketchum paper. Pretty interesting.

http://www.cryptomun...atch-dna-study/

Ah yes, Bug_Gurl and the 5 Fly Guys, broadcasting on webcams from their dorm rooms. Bug_Gurl's video, introduced by someone from Meldrum's camp. All that's missing was for one of the Fly Guys to wear a bright red wig and a huge red rubber nose.

[Guest]

Does anybody know anything about the bones and teeth that she's testing? I love the 'Dr.Dan' reference too. Par for the course.

It seems the bones and teeth are a part the suspected alien/human hybrid study she's working on now, not bigfoot.

Or is it(que spooky music)

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=4617842891858&substory_index=0&id=1466217088&__user=1270337639

Notice its the exact same post as on Ketchum site.

http://thetruthergirls.wordpress.com/2013/03/09/brien-foerster-and-the-elongated-skull-paracas-of-peru/

Edited March 29, 2013 by squatting squatch

[Guest MoMoMafia]

So LC, where do we find the details on your previously mentioned human-lemur interbreeding? In a lab? On a farm? Back alley?

The idea that the male half of the hybrid was in the lemur line comes from Ketchum herself. I thought this was old news by now.

http://bigfootevidence.blogspot.com/2013/03/listen-to-dr-melba-ketchum-talk-about.html

There is an embedded video of Ketchum being interviewed as well as the direct quote.

"It's headed a little more towards the lemur line, oddly enough. It is definitely NOT an ape. And it's interesting that we found out that there is an extinct lemur that weighed 400 or 500 pounds. Also, they had opposable thumbs and hooded noses. It really freaked me out that we had lemur. I did not expect that (laughs)." - Dr. Melba Ketchum

Really I thought this was old news by now.

Ah gee, anyone who buys this deal has crossed the rubicon mentally. It's simply not possible genetically.

MMM

Edited March 29, 2013 by MoMoMafia

[Guest]

From Dr. Ketchum, DVM's facebook page:

We are working on teeth and bones....can't wait to see if we hit pay dirt so to speak!!! Have a variety of samples...we shall see what we get..... Dr. Pat, my second author is amazing. Even the Armed Forces lab was using his extraction techniques last time I heard (You know, they identify bones from MIAs and other lost servicemen and even identified the person in the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier from the Vietnam War). He taught me the technique, but he has the wonderful robots that make extractions more perfect than I could ever do manually. He has never failed to get DNA from bone. Even manually his techniques are SO fantastic that I was able to get usable DNA from cremated remains in two separate cases (one cat and one human) and I never thought we could do that, especially without robots. We recently extracted DNA from some 2000 year old tissue and hair and got good results (DNA profiles) using these extraction methods without having to amplify the DNA (WGA) or make a "library" like they did for the Neandertal and Denisovan hominins prior to sequencing. We have one sample that is highly degraded bone and it will be interesting if this will be the first time this extraction technique fails. I am betting on getting DNA though. The academics could sure learn a few things from forensic scientists about extracting good DNA from minimal samples and also how to determine if there is really contamination other than just assuming that there is... It is so awesome! I gotta love science!!!!

Ridgerunner/Genes/Nuka, what are your thoughts on this? In my experience, samples that have been burned don't yield usable DNA samples, particularly if they were professionally cremated as opposed to just burned in a trash can or dumpster.

Does anybody know anything about the bones and teeth that she's testing? I love the 'Dr.Dan' reference too. Par for the course.

It seems the bones and teeth are a part the suspected alien/human hybrid study she's working on now, not bigfoot.

Or is it(que spooky music)

https://m.facebook.c...user=1270337639

Notice its the exact same post as on Ketchum site.

http://thetruthergir...aracas-of-peru/

More interesting are these posts from Ketchum to Brian Foerster's wall:

Melba Ketchumposted toBrien Foerster

3 hours ago

I am thinking I can raise the research money and if so, I will set up a genomics lab with a next gen sequencer, bone robots and a good bioinformaticist (I already have one in mind) and we would solve a lot of history's mysteries. There are so many...giants, mummies and others (you can use your imagination). This stuff fascinates me and it is not difficult to do. A lab geared to this could crank out data quicker and better than a university or govt lab where there is so much red tape and the work is often done by grad students and post-docs.

Melba Ketchumposted toBrien Foerster

18 hours ago

We are planning whole genomes on the mummies though and working on the samples actively. I am really excited to see where their DNA fits.

Edited March 29, 2013 by leisureclass

[Bonehead74]

Below is a March 1st video teleconference with several geneticist, and they pretty much debunk the Ketchum paper. Pretty interesting.

http://www.cryptomun...atch-dna-study/

Ah yes, Bug_Gurl and the 5 Fly Guys, broadcasting on webcams from their dorm rooms. Bug_Gurl's video, introduced by someone from Meldrum's camp. All that's missing was for one of the Fly Guys to wear a bright red wig and a huge red rubber nose.

Isn't this uncomfortably close to how you accuse others of treating Dr Ketchum?

[Guest DWA]

^^^^[thinks somebody may have something here]

[Guest]

Melba Ketchumposted toBrien Foerster

3 hours ago

.... A lab geared to this could crank out data quicker and better than a university or govt lab where there is so much red tape and the work is often done by grad students and post-docs.

Yes! Let's totally discourage research by anyone with more genetics experience than Dr. Ketchum.

Let's also discourage research done by anyone who would make their data openly available to scrutiny by other scientists.

And let's mislead people into thinking that university and government labs cannot do this work as fast or as well. I'm sure this will be a shocker to scientists based at universities, particularly the ones with prominent genetics/bioinformatics centers with worldwide reputations. And let's not forget that government labs are convicting criminals because of the quality of their work.

For anyone who is unfamiliar with the terminology - grad students doing this kind of lab work would be working on their master's or PhD and would already have a bachelor's degree in the appropriate field(s) - a degree Dr. Ketchum does not possess, as her education was in veterinary medicine. And post-docs would already have a PhD in the appropriate field(s) - again, something Dr. Ketchum does not possess, as her doctorate is in veterinary medicine. Also, most forensic scientists, who she's trying to elevate above university scientists, work in local, state and federal government labs, which she's also minimizing in her statement.

Wonder if she realizes how many scientists she has insulted/alienated with this highly inaccurate propaganda?

[Guest]

From Dr. Ketchum, DVM's facebook page:

We are working on teeth and bones....can't wait to see if we hit pay dirt so to speak!!! Have a variety of samples...we shall see what we get..... Dr. Pat, my second author is amazing. Even the Armed Forces lab was using his extraction techniques last time I heard (You know, they identify bones from MIAs and other lost servicemen and even identified the person in the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier from the Vietnam War). He taught me the technique, but he has the wonderful robots that make extractions more perfect than I could ever do manually. He has never failed to get DNA from bone. Even manually his techniques are SO fantastic that I was able to get usable DNA from cremated remains in two separate cases (one cat and one human) and I never thought we could do that, especially without robots. We recently extracted DNA from some 2000 year old tissue and hair and got good results (DNA profiles) using these extraction methods without having to amplify the DNA (WGA) or make a "library" like they did for the Neandertal and Denisovan hominins prior to sequencing. We have one sample that is highly degraded bone and it will be interesting if this will be the first time this extraction technique fails. I am betting on getting DNA though. The academics could sure learn a few things from forensic scientists about extracting good DNA from minimal samples and also how to determine if there is really contamination other than just assuming that there is... It is so awesome! I gotta love science!!!!

Ridgerunner/Genes/Nuka, what are your thoughts on this? In my experience, samples that have been burned don't yield usable DNA samples, particularly if they were professionally cremated as opposed to just burned in a trash can or dumpster.

Melba Ketchumposted toBrien Foerster

3 hours ago

I am thinking I can raise the research money and if so, I will set up a genomics lab with a next gen sequencer, bone robots and a good bioinformaticist (I already have one in mind) and we would solve a lot of history's mysteries. There are so many...giants, mummies and others (you can use your imagination). This stuff fascinates me and it is not difficult to do. A lab geared to this could crank out data quicker and better than a university or govt lab where there is so much red tape and the work is often done by grad students and post-docs.

Hmm, human DNA samples from cremated remains - I can only guess what THAT could be. You can use your imagination!

And yes, let's knock those "scientist types" who did the work on the Neanderthal sequences. Clearly their results would have been a whole lot more interesting if they had the input of forensic scientists! You can use your imagination!

And you gotta love science, and it is not difficult to do, especially if you omit those pesky grad students and post-docs. This stuff really fascinates me.

Sorry, could not resist the parody - it is not difficult to do!

[Guest]

If theagenes, GenesRus, Ridgerunner or maelsquatch say something, I know I expect they are going to backup their claims with explanations. Those explanations, if they disagree with the findings in Dr. Ketchum's paper, are attacking Dr. Ketchum or her credibility. Science is all about proving your hypothesis and having others recreate it. This might not be a science forum, but the scientific method isn't only for science forums. The process is pretty generic. Without the process, there is no science.

njjohn,

I appreciate that there are posters here who have some knowledge of this particular subject however, not one of them has done the testing? Or correct me if I'm wrong....

The people who did the testing were NOT told what creature the material came from, it was a blind study. Could they all have made the very same mistake?????

Dr. Ketchum included all the data that she says backs up her claims. Anyone with access to BLAST can test the data provided and analyze what is there. They don't have to do the original tests unless they wanted to test the samples and get new sequences. The data provided is the result of the initial tests. If the results come back different or contradicting the claims made in the paper, that's where we get the discussions we're having. You don't need to run the tests all over again in order to see what's there.

Sunflower, I understand there's some confusion surrounding this. I am not a scientist, so initially all of this made no sense. I thought that whatever was in the paper was incomplete and what would be released later would answer the questions. Once I was asked to ask Dr. Ketchum about the possibility of more data due to the confusion both in the entire BF community and scientific community (everyone kept saying we had to wait for more data) I then learned that she feels everything needed to prove her claims was already in the paper. The remaining data is the genome data that will take awhile to fully analyze. Nevermind the other 108 mtDNA sequences.

But the scientists that have analyzed the current data say it doesn't prove what she's claimed. Even the one peer reviewer that has spoken out said there wasn't enough data to prove what she claimed. That's the reason it failed peer review. It wasn't because they didn't understand it or had a bias against her, it was because in order to claim X, you need to prove X and she fell short of that. Could something be in the remaining data? Absolutely. But currently, the claims in her paper haven't been sufficiently backed it up.

I'd say it's like a math test, where you write down the answer and didn't show the work, or only showed some of the work. Even if the answer is correct, the teacher will mark it wrong. That's what this paper is. It's only partially done. I don't hate Dr. Ketchum. I think if what she claims is correct, it would be a major discovery. But no one can accept her "answer" as correct without the work. And that's what she's asking everyone to do. It doesn't work that way in elementary school, and it certainly doesn't work that way in the scientific community. There's nothing personal about that.

Why it is so hard for so many here to comprehend the above is just mind boggling.

[Guest thermalman]

About as mind boggling as the interbreeding human-lemur statement put forth, with no data or proof to back up the statement. Yet many will end up believing that yarn!

Edited March 30, 2013 by thermalman

[Guest]

From Dr. Ketchum, DVM's facebook page:

We are working on teeth and bones....can't wait to see if we hit pay dirt so to speak!!! Have a variety of samples...we shall see what we get..... Dr. Pat, my second author is amazing. Even the Armed Forces lab was using his extraction techniques last time I heard (You know, they identify bones from MIAs and other lost servicemen and even identified the person in the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier from the Vietnam War). He taught me the technique, but he has the wonderful robots that make extractions more perfect than I could ever do manually. He has never failed to get DNA from bone. Even manually his techniques are SO fantastic that I was able to get usable DNA from cremated remains in two separate cases (one cat and one human) and I never thought we could do that, especially without robots. We recently extracted DNA from some 2000 year old tissue and hair and got good results (DNA profiles) using these extraction methods without having to amplify the DNA (WGA) or make a "library" like they did for the Neandertal and Denisovan hominins prior to sequencing. We have one sample that is highly degraded bone and it will be interesting if this will be the first time this extraction technique fails. I am betting on getting DNA though. The academics could sure learn a few things from forensic scientists about extracting good DNA from minimal samples and also how to determine if there is really contamination other than just assuming that there is... It is so awesome! I gotta love science!!!!

Ridgerunner/Genes/Nuka, what are your thoughts on this? In my experience, samples that have been burned don't yield usable DNA samples, particularly if they were professionally cremated as opposed to just burned in a trash can or dumpster.

Melba Ketchumposted toBrien Foerster

3 hours ago

I am thinking I can raise the research money and if so, I will set up a genomics lab with a next gen sequencer, bone robots and a good bioinformaticist (I already have one in mind) and we would solve a lot of history's mysteries. There are so many...giants, mummies and others (you can use your imagination). This stuff fascinates me and it is not difficult to do. A lab geared to this could crank out data quicker and better than a university or govt lab where there is so much red tape and the work is often done by grad students and post-docs.

Hmm, human DNA samples from cremated remains - I can only guess what THAT could be. You can use your imagination!

OOO, does it start with "Contam" and ends with "ination"?

[southernyahoo]

Melba Ketchumposted toBrien Foerster

3 hours ago

.... A lab geared to this could crank out data quicker and better than a university or govt lab where there is so much red tape and the work is often done by grad students and post-docs.

Yes! Let's totally discourage research by anyone with more genetics experience than Dr. Ketchum.

Let's also discourage research done by anyone who would make their data openly available to scrutiny by other scientists.

And let's mislead people into thinking that university and government labs cannot do this work as fast or as well. I'm sure this will be a shocker to scientists based at universities, particularly the ones with prominent genetics/bioinformatics centers with worldwide reputations. And let's not forget that government labs are convicting criminals because of the quality of their work.

For anyone who is unfamiliar with the terminology - grad students doing this kind of lab work would be working on their master's or PhD and would already have a bachelor's degree in the appropriate field(s) - a degree Dr. Ketchum does not possess, as her education was in veterinary medicine. And post-docs would already have a PhD in the appropriate field(s) - again, something Dr. Ketchum does not possess, as her doctorate is in veterinary medicine. Also, most forensic scientists, who she's trying to elevate above university scientists, work in local, state and federal government labs, which she's also minimizing in her statement.

Wonder if she realizes how many scientists she has insulted/alienated with this highly inaccurate propaganda?

I think she is comparing out put from a lab operating under regulations to one that is privately owned and funded. I doubt the learning process stops when you get your Phd either. In my profession the letters mean you have a license to learn.