The Ketchum Report (Continued)

[Guest thermalman]

About as mind boggling as the interbreeding human-lemur statement put forth, with no data or proof to back up the statement. Yet many will end up believing that yarn!

As you are more than aware, the Lemur yarn was spun by Ketchum.

How is it you can so easily dismiss ideas you previously defended vehemently when the wind changes, pretending you never held those ideas as true? Is it not possible that perhaps if you were to truly re-visit the founding reasons for your support of the study those would be shattered as well?

About as mind boggling as the interbreeding human-lemur statement put forth, with no data or proof to back up the statement. Yet many will end up believing that yarn!

You are absolutely right. It is outlandish for Ketchum to suggest that humans and lemurs not only mated but produced viable, non-sterile offspring.

Well, I just speed read several pages of lemur facts. Go read it yourself before claiming that she, Melba, is not a scientist. There is apparently something and the one something is that there was a lemur that weighed between 350-400 lbs. It's extinct now thanks to humans (us) and Madagascar is in grave danger from the deforestation, habitat loss, hunting for bush meat, etc.

Sad situation......

Everyone agrees that giant lemurs existed. The problem is the idea that 15,000 years ago a giant lemur escaped from Madagascar, moved to America, mated with Europeans and Africans, and created Bigfoot.

I believe that Dr. Ketchum stated the lemur DNA link was found in the samples she tested. BTW, it's not that outrageous to think the DNA points to lemurs, after all, humans and chimps share 97% genome. So the interbreeding aspect is coming from all the self proclaimed scientists in this thread. if you believe what the posters here say is the truth, then humans have been breeding with alot of other animals as well:

- Genome-wide variation from one human being to another can be up to 0.5% (99.5% similarity)

- Chimpanzees are 96% to 98% similar to humans, depending on how it is calculated. (source)

- Cats have 90% of homologous genes with humans, 82% with dogs, 80% with cows, 79% with chimpanzees, 69% with rats and 67% with mice. (source)

- Cows (Bos taurus) are 80% genetically similar to humans (source)

- 75% of mouse genes have equivalents in humans (source), 90% of the mouse genome could be lined up with a region on the human genome (source) 99% of mouse genes turn out to have analogues in humans (source)

- The fruit fly (Drosophila) shares about 60% of its DNA with humans (source).

- About 60% of chicken genes correspond to a similar human gene. (source)

The number of genes across a few tested species can be compared on HomoloGene.

Edited March 30, 2013 by thermalman

[Guest]

I believe that Dr. Ketchum stated the lemur DNA link was found in the samples she tested. BTW, it's not that outrageous to think the DNA points to lemurs, after all, humans and chimps share 97% genome. So the interbreeding aspect is coming from all the self proclaimed scientists in this thread. if you believe what the posters here say is the truth, then humans have been breeding with alot of other animals as well:

Umm, what? Please provide links to these human-animal hybrid claims people have been making, because I must have missed those.

[Sunflower]

Well, I just speed read several pages of lemur facts. Go read it yourself before claiming that she, Melba, is not a scientist. There is apparently something and the one something is that there was a lemur that weighed between 350-400 lbs. It's extinct now thanks to humans (us) and Madagascar is in grave danger from the deforestation, habitat loss, hunting for bush meat, etc.

Sad situation......

Everyone agrees that giant lemurs existed. The problem is the idea that 15,000 years ago a giant lemur escaped from Madagascar, moved to America, mated with Europeans and Africans, and created Bigfoot.

The problem is that it is not so simplistic as you remarked above. Reading through all this, it amazes me how many different characteristics of the lemur there are and just in the capability of their eyes and how many colors they are able to see. It mentions bipedalism, taking 33 foot leaps through the trees, such diversity in their diets, whether they are diurnal, nocturnal, etc.

Listen to the recordings of their vocalizations, read about their mating habits, eating habits, there is just so much. They are very complicated IMO.

[Guest]

So, does anyone know what Ketchum is doing with Pervuian mummies and how she acquired them?

[georgerm]

The top PHd in my class upon graduation could not handle the Public, so had to go back into the sheltered Academic world to Teach.

Now that's a fact.

Nothing wrong with teaching...................someones got to do it.

I doubt if MOST PHDs could get an interview to a Vet school.... It usually takes a 4 point ( perfect grades). They only take the highest qualified college graduates that apply to Texas A&M... You have to have higher grades, MCAT, interview skills to get in A&M.

You don't get to be a Vet by retaking the course... To get a better grade.. Or who you know....

They are hard workers.

To be a Vet ( I am not) you have to have quality over quantity... After all.. Your patient can not tell you what is wrong with them.

You have to know where to look " or the patient ( expensive ) dies.

They are smart. Why couldn't a wealthy vet set up a genetics/DNA lab and hired the best PHD geneticists to do the work?

All it takes is money, smarts, and a dream.

[Guest thermalman]

I believe that Dr. Ketchum stated the lemur DNA link was found in the samples she tested. BTW, it's not that outrageous to think the DNA points to lemurs, after all, humans and chimps share 97% genome. So the interbreeding aspect is coming from all the self proclaimed scientists in this thread. if you believe what the posters here say is the truth, then humans have been breeding with alot of other animals as well:

Umm, what? Please provide links to these human-animal hybrid claims people have been making, because I must have missed those.

You're the one claiming human-lemur interbreeding. The burden is on you, lc. Where's the proof?

[Guest thermalman]

Mouse and human genome similarities, http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/publicat/tko/06_img.html

No interbreeding involved.

Edited March 31, 2013 by thermalman

[Guest Silent Sam]

All organisms share a certain level of genetic similarity. It has nothing to do with interbreeding and everything to do with how the tree of life has branched over time. This isn't even high school level biology.

The problem is that humans cannot successfully produce offspring with chimpanzees, gorillas, or orangutans, which are all more genetically similar to humans than lemurs. Ketchum's suggestion that the non-human contributor to the human/non-human hybrid that is bigfoot is closer to the lemur is simply a non-starter in light of our inability to produce offspring with our much closer related relatives in the ape family.

ETA - And before you say anything about the lemur hybrid idea coming from anywhere other than Ketchum herself I'll point you back to her own words yet again.

"It's headed a little more towards the lemur line, oddly enough. It is definitely NOT an ape. And it's interesting that we found out that there is an extinct lemur that weighed 400 or 500 pounds. Also, they had opposable thumbs and hooded noses. It really freaked me out that we had lemur. I did not expect that (laughs)."

She is very clearly stating here that the non-human source of the hybrid that created bigfoot is "more towards the lemur line" and "definitely NOT an ape". Again this is a non-starter given that humans can't successfully produce offspring with any of the great apes, which are again closer to us than any lemur.

Edited March 31, 2013 by Silent Sam

[Guest thermalman]

All organisms share a certain level of genetic similarity. It has nothing to do with interbreeding and everything to do with how the tree of life has branched over time. This isn't even high school level biology.

The problem is that humans cannot successfully produce offspring with chimpanzees, gorillas, or orangutans, which are all more genetically similar to humans than lemurs. Ketchum's suggestion that the non-human contributor to the human/non-human hybrid that is bigfoot is closer to the lemur is simply a non-starter in light of our inability to produce offspring with our much closer related relatives in the ape family.

"It's headed a little more towards the lemur line, oddly enough. It is definitely NOT an ape. And it's interesting that we found out that there is an extinct lemur that weighed 400 or 500 pounds. Also, they had opposable thumbs and hooded noses. It really freaked me out that we had lemur. I did not expect that (laughs)."

She is very clearly stating here that the non-human source of the hybrid that created bigfoot is "more towards the lemur line" and "definitely NOT an ape". Again this is a non-starter given that humans can't successfully produce offspring with any of the great apes, which are again closer to us than any lemur.

Totally agree! Explain that to those who are claiming human-lemur interbreeding. I'm not the one claiming it! Good post. Plussed.

http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/faq/compgen.shtml

leisureclass

Anthropologists have been arguing over neanderthal-human interbreeding for decades, and there are lots of papers supporting both sides. There's a big difference between neanderthal-human interbreeding, and human-lemur interbreeding.

Fill us in on the human-lemur interbreeding please?

Edited March 31, 2013 by thermalman

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

The problem is that humans cannot successfully produce offspring with chimpanzees, gorillas, or orangutans, which are all more genetically similar to humans than lemurs.

Can you give a source for that info? Different species that have different numbers of chromosomes are known to produce hybrids. While probably not a human and a lemur, it's possible that a human and a chimp or bonobo might be able to produce a hybrid.

[Guest]

The problem is that humans cannot successfully produce offspring with chimpanzees, gorillas, or orangutans, which are all more genetically similar to humans than lemurs.

Can you give a source for that info? Different species that have different numbers of chromosomes are known to produce hybrids. While probably not a human and a lemur, it's possible that a human and a chimp or bonobo might be able to produce a hybrid.

Here's a quick blog with a video. As far as serious studies, the Soviets spent roughly a decade trying to cross-breed humans and chimps using IV fertilization and it never worked. It's unlikely that anyone would try that today, given the ethical issues involved.

http://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/2009/03/03/are-human-chimp-hybrids-possib/

[Guest]

@ScienceCritic - I am sure that most vets, including MK, are highly intelligent people. When my pets get sick, I take them to my local vet, not a PhD. They have a certain skill set - a certain training. Likewise, PhDs have a different skill set - being trained in research. Sometimes these fields overlap, sometimes not. Many people I know have obtained both a MD and a PhD - clearly they do so because they feel there is something to be gained from this.

Based on the publication, I do not believe that MK is a critical thinker. The fact that 111 of 111 samples all came back as positive is worrisome. No, I don't believe they are all contamination, nor do I believe they are all BF. So which ones are which?? There is no critical evaluation as to what this result says. The electron microscope study is without substance. With the nuDNA Illumina contigs, it is so far off the norm of biology, the only explanation would be alien and or an act of God - I personally do not believe in either as a source for BF. And the samples are NOT related - so which one is BF - again no critical evaluation. Do you really believe all samples tested in this study, that passed initial hair morphology evaluation, are all BF? There is not one sample in this study that had further analysis that MK say is NOT BF!! You may chose to buy this study if you like.

So why is MK trying to get the input from PhDs to support her paper? It appears she may value their opinion, although several of her comments seem to say the opposite.

In the end, I can only base my opinion on the paper and the conduct that MK has shown in the handling of this all. Neither has impressed me. And yes I do have one of those PhDs. I have not yet contacted my vet to get her opinion on the paper, but a few others of my kind have expressed their views on this paper, and they are not impressed.

Could this have been Nobel quality work? Yup, I do believe so - though I am not certain if it would truly fall in to any of the categories - closest would be medicine, but I am not sure if this would fit. Anyhow, it is a big finding if proven true. This paper does not prove BF is in the Homo genus, let lone the sapiens species. Some of the mtDNA may be ok, but I don't know which samples. Some of the nuDNA studies with conventional sequencing may be ok, but there seems to be too much variation between samples that are all supposedly BF samples of a single species. But the nuDNA Illumina sequencing and generated contigs are simply silly. As I have said previously, her hybrid theory may have some merit, but the species that would, or could, hybridize with a human is NOT the one that has been proposed.

In the end this paper is not the definitive paper on BF, despite MK's statement that this is a done fact. And due to the large numbers of errors, I don't feel she should be given credit for the eventual discovery, even if she got a fact or two correct. But I will let others determine this.

[Guest]

So, does anyone know what Ketchum is doing with Pervuian mummies and how she acquired them?

she aquired samples of the "elongated Head" people from a guy who runs Mummy tours in Peru. Apparently grave robbing and exporting national treasures in no problem down there!

anyway she so far has taken the guy for $7,000 bucks (as much as he could raise according to him)

I know for a fact that woj??? of North Louisiana criminalistics has some in his possession and is currently working on them!

[Guest]

I'll take a elongated heads for $7000 Trebeck.

[Guest]

The fact that MK doesn't have a PhD doesn't bother me one bit. I work with DVMs and MDs every day, who do amazing research. They may have formal training in diagnosing and treating disease, but they're really smart people capable of learning how to do laboratory research too. But, these MDs and DVMs publish their results in peer-reviewed journals, following rigorous peer review instead of creating a pseudo-journal, cheery-picking favorable reviewers (if they actually exist), and probably compensating them for their positive reviews (my speculation).

Imagine for a moment that I submit a manuscript or grant application for review by other scientists. The reviews ask for more data before they will accept my manuscript for fund my proposal. What will they say when I tell them I refuse to provide more data, or all the data they need to make a decision has already been provided? It's ludicrous to believe that my paper will be published or my grant will be funded. But, MK is upset that some of us are unwilling to put up with her shenanigans!

Oh, Ridgerunner made another excellent observation. It stretches the limits of credibility to believe that all 111 samples MK tested all tested positive. Really? There wasn't even one sample that was negative? I don't gamble, but even I would bet hard cash that the next sample she tests will be positive for BF.

Genes