Drew Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I leave for the weekend, and come back to this? Giant LEMURS mating with humans? Really? Lemurs from tropical Madagascar, mating with humans from Europe 15000 years ago, their offspring travelling over some Greenland ice bridge, and populating the forests and swamps of N. America? Lemurs and Humans last common ancestor was around 65 million years ago. This is a big joke, and they keep trying to make it funnier, to no avail. This is so silly to think that humans and lemurs could mate, but gorillas and humans can not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimB Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Something odd- I did a Google search for "Published papers by Ridgerunner" and came up with nothing... Hmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Do you think a lot of it is because of jealousy or skepticism, by the other scientists? They may possibly be skeptical of BF, but they cite specific reasons for why her science is bad, so I'm not sure if their personal ideologies mix with their analysis, but it appears moot to me, since what we believe has nothing to do with facts, which they point out. As far as jealousy goes, I don't think that anybody is jealous of her. If she actually proved something, then I could see that, but since she hasn't, as of yet, I think scientists are annoyed with her that she is making a mockery of the scientific method, and they are simply BLASTing her, which she deserves, IMO. She hasn't provided proof of her claims. Charging $30 for her paper, and not providing the data is pretty bad. I personally think she deliberately scammed everyone, and I am a knower. But, my opinion regarding her science really means nothing, considering that I need people to explain it to me, and I can't draw my own opinion of it based on what I know. Same goes for people who support her. The only people who know what they're actually talking about have said that she's wrong/lying/inept, so I have to go with those opinions over Melba's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 But Melba's claim is that the mtDNA is 100% human... so, if the BLAST results point to Otolemur... where does that leave us? Far as I can tell, that is saying that the maternal line was human not too far back. Someone in Melba's camp had said to me, well before Melba's release, that two of the genomes pointed to a "wet-nose" primate, and one pointed to a "dry nose primate" Since the release, one of my sources has said that 1 genome appears to have no "non-primate" contamination (the "dry-nosed" result), and 1 appears to have canid contamination, and 1 (Justin's) has bear contamination. We have seen how the bear influences the Human, when you BLAST it - it pushes the suggested matches towards Lemur... and bears have wet noses. Could the genome that allegedly has canid contamination be producing a similar result? (I'm just simplistically focusing on the wet nose trait of canids) But Melba's claim is that the mtDNA is 100% human... so, if the BLAST results point to Otolemur... where does that leave us? Far as I can tell, that is saying that the maternal line was human not too far back. Someone in Melba's camp had said to me, well before Melba's release, that two of the genomes pointed to a "wet-nose" primate, and one pointed to a "dry nose primate" Since the release, one of my sources has said that 1 genome appears to have no "non-primate" contamination (the "dry-nosed" result), and 1 appears to have canid contamination, and 1 (Justin's) has bear contamination. We have seen how the bear influences the Human, when you BLAST it - it pushes the suggested matches towards Lemur... and bears have wet noses. Could the genome that allegedly has canid contamination be producing a similar result? (I'm just simplistically focusing on the wet nose trait of canids) That must explain the dog nose on Matilda the wookie then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWA Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I leave for the weekend, and come back to this? Giant LEMURS mating with humans? Really? Lemurs from tropical Madagascar, mating with humans from Europe 15000 years ago, their offspring travelling over some Greenland ice bridge, and populating the forests and swamps of N. America? Lemurs and Humans last common ancestor was around 65 million years ago. This is a big joke, and they keep trying to make it funnier, to no avail. This is so silly to think that humans and lemurs could mate, but gorillas and humans can not. I had to plus you, Drew, first 'cause it felt so weird and second because...well, I can't think of a human, or a gorilla, that I wouldn't try to mate with first were a lemur the alternative, and I suspect I am not alone. "Honey...you'll have to come down from the tree first...and the snout is gonna be hard to deal with..." Saw the train wreck coming, but wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernyahoo Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Ummmm, isn't Ridge versed in a field that deals with DNA? And how can anybody believe a single word that Ketchum says anymore? She will not let anybody view her data. She claims to let a select few look at it, but that still doesn't prove anything. It's obvious to anybody who isn't emotionally attached to her why she hasn't released it. Aside from things like,"Robin here, BF is real, and we proved it. Don't ask us to show how we proved it because that just proves that you dislike her." She has no interest in being transparent. It's painfully obvious. She could dispel every rumor by releasing all of the e-mails, and data, but she won't because then the jig will be up. The NephiLemur is the daddy of BF, and we're just supposed to accept it, and carry on with our business. Ask ridgerunner about species identification and what methods would likely be used in a field survey to quickly screen and assign samples . Ask if that is commonly relied upon to determine species. I'm not saying I agree with that method being used to determine phylogeny, because it does get into nuDNA study for final verdict on new species, especially if we are dealing with a hybrid species that has such a recent divergence. I've heard it's not uncommon for primates to have a mitochondria from another related subspecies, so that's not an issue per say. I've known how strange the nuDNA was reported to be for over a year before this was published, and knew it would not follow evolutionary logic due to the degree in which it doesn't align with human or hominin in some area's. I've had to be agnostic about such information and trust that it would eventually be parsed and better understood beyond what can be said in laymens terms and taken a bit too literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 "..when we know most warm-blooded animals all life share basic DNA..". Humans share 'basic DNA' with turnips, it is just less than we share with lizards or mammals. The fornication you object against is however exactly what Ketchum proposes. She specifically states that bigfoot is a hybrid, she then suggests that the mDNA is fully human and the nDNA is a mixture, leaning toward lemur. Let's see.. Please tell me if I have this right. Per Melba: Physical examination of the hair samples - "not human" mDNA - human nuDNA - No idea - possibly lemur.. but definitely not an ape. She also says, it's not human but closely related to human. (there went the "Constitutional Protections") But then at the end, she says they are human because of "extra intelligence"... I did not know DNA sequencing showed the intelligence level of anything. Interesting. Instead of IQ testing - it would be easier to just have our DNA sequenced.. I always did hate tests Well - if I have the above correct - that is about as clear as mud.. For anyone who read Melba's paper - until she started talking about this "lemur" connection --- was there any indication of this in her paper? Or is she talking about the data she has not made available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TwilightZone Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I just wanted to post a link to a terrific podcast in order to argue against the idea that science is totally dismissive of Bigfoot and will never take the topic seriously. Don't be repulsed by the name of the podcast: even though Skeptoid's Brian Dunning is pretty skeptical of most fringe beliefs (like ghosts and alien jelly from the stars) you may find him downright fuzzy on the topic of Bigfoot. He's more of a science journalist/author than "scientist" per se but he does have the respect of many in the scientific community. Coincidentally, I emailed him right before the Ketchum report came out to make sure he had the good doctor on his radar scope, and he assured me that he did. I'm hoping were in for an episode devoted to her at some point. The title of the episode is appropriate to the Ketchum Kerfuffle: "Are We Killing Bigfoot with Bad Science?" http://skeptoid.com/mobile/4011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 That was a great article TwilightZone - thank you for posting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWA Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 ^^^Wow. Not too many bigfoot skeptics to which I don't have to affix the "bigfoot" (on my premise that bigfoot skeptics aren't real skeptics). That's a true skeptic. Kudos. He may be underinformed as to how much evidence there is. But a true skeptic questions every assumption. He did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thermalman Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) But Melba's claim is that the mtDNA is 100% human... so, if the BLAST results point to Otolemur... where does that leave us? Far as I can tell, that is saying that the maternal line was human not too far back. If that's the case, with contamination ruled out, then wouldn't the shooting constitute "murder"? Maybe that's why the peers are refusing to go near the report? Edited March 4, 2013 by thermalman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) Well, first she needs to decide if it's human or not. In one breath she says it's human, but then says - it's human but only in the area of intelligence. Just because the animal is smart - that does not make it human like you and me. So, no. I still don't see murder charges. Maybe that's why the peers are refusing to go near the report? I thought she said she had "big name scientists we would all know - if she said their names" reviewing her paper now? I know she said that. So - is she getting that help from these "big named scientists" or not?? Maybe the ones that won't touch the report - are not touching it because (as they have said) the raw data is NOT available in the report. I keep hearing these people say - they can't truly figure out what she is talking about without the RAW DATA... Thermalman, could you talk to Melba and get her to release the data that people are asking for??? It might help. Edited March 4, 2013 by Melissa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 The theory makes no effort to explain how a hybrid that clearly would be able to mate with humans, was able to live along side a growing swarm of millions of humans spreading across the earth. The way it works, humans would move into a place with other similar beasts, and either engulf their genes through mating, or just starve them out due to better abilities to adapt to environments, or just plain kill them. For some reason this Lemur-Human "Leman" was immune to the engulfing tide of humanity that was exploding throughout europe and asia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 The theory makes no effort to explain how a hybrid that clearly would be able to mate with humans, Mating with humans is one thing -- but producing viable offspring - I think that is a whole other conversation. If this were possible, then we should be able to produce the Humanzees all the conspiracy theory folk talk about... Maybe we can? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWA Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 When one is making up stuff mid - or end? - stream to suit what one needs to say today, one, well, one wonders about the "results." And one has been seeing this sort of thing from Day One with Ketchum. If the time spent on the sideshows in this field were spent outside, seeking confirmation, we'd have had it years - maybe decades - ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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