Guest DWA Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 Yes I can...that's exactly how it works Norse! That's how science and true skeptical minds work. I don't know....my mind is not made up, it can be changed but to conclude that because you or anyone else doesn't know what made tracks or a sound in the woods or how PGF was done therefore it must be Bigfoot ..to me is the epitome of arrogance and closed mindedness. My opinion is based on my experience and my knowledge and what things are "most likely"... could I be wrong sure...but this whole routine of elimination of all knows therefore it must be Bigfoot is absurd logic and a complete failure of critical thinking. Find a person who's doing that. You won't. I can point to a lot of them here though...for whom this whole routine of elimination of all knows therefore it can't be Bigfoot is absurd logic and a complete failure of critical thinking. [sic]
norseman Posted June 22, 2013 Admin Posted June 22, 2013 I agree absolutely that every bump or howl in the night being accredited to Bigfoot is not critical thinking.......... That's NOT what is taking place here. Something made this trackway.......it's not a mirage, or a hallucination. And for you to say "I don't know but it wasn't a Bigfoot because they cannot exist"? You realize this puts you in the same mindset as the people who accredit EVERYTHING to Sasquatch. It's no different, you taking something on faith. Science? Science is going to roll up it's sleeves and work until it comes up with an explanation. And that's all I'm trying to do. If it's a hoax? I would really love to hear how it was done. And I guess I'll patiently wait for Drew to explain it all to us. But thus far his (and your) argument that the above track is a hoax because it doesn't exhibit snow disbursement at the front of each track simply doesn't hold water. Because you haven't demonstrated how a Human hoaxer would avoid such a disbursement.
Guest Cervelo Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 (edited) Norse, Where have I ever said Bigfoot cannot exist? Where did I say it was hoaxed? What part of IMO do you not get? I don't have to prove anything one way or the other you want to dream up some fantastical explanation as opposed to somehow a commonly known animal created a trackway that's your prerogative. Yes I can...that's exactly how it works Norse! That's how science and true skeptical minds work. I don't know....my mind is not made up, it can be changed but to conclude that because you or anyone else doesn't know what made tracks or a sound in the woods or how PGF was done therefore it must be Bigfoot ..to me is the epitome of arrogance and closed mindedness. My opinion is based on my experience and my knowledge and what things are "most likely"... could I be wrong sure...but this whole routine of elimination of all knows therefore it must be Bigfoot is absurd logic and a complete failure of critical thinking. Find a person who's doing that. You won't. I can point to a lot of them here though...for whom this whole routine of elimination of all knows therefore it can't be Bigfoot is absurd logic and a complete failure of critical thinking. [sic] Did you just repeat what I said in my post, once again DWA you make absolutely no sense to me whatsoever! Edited June 22, 2013 by Cervelo
Guest DWA Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 Well, when no animal I know to exist makes a trackway like the one I am looking at, that an unconfirmed one that could make it suddenly seems a mundane explanation. I can give you a clue as to why animals with four feet make paths. Hint: it's in the above sentence. Oh. The part of IMO that I can't get is where the O part comes from.
Guest Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 I would say Norseman is on to an interesting mystery here. I doubt the tracks posted are the result of a hoax. So, what animal made them? I suspect a four-legged bounding animal. But, if this were the case, such prints would be more common and ought not be a mystery to woodsmen. Then again, I'm speaking from ignorance since I don't hang out with woodsmen.
norseman Posted June 22, 2013 Admin Posted June 22, 2013 Norse, Where have I ever said Bigfoot cannot exist? Where did I say it was hoaxed? What part of IMO do you not get? A ) Your playing the odds game Cervelo, whether you want to admit that or not. B ) In pretty much every post you have made about it? If I have somehow misinterpreted what your saying? Can you please flesh out your Bison post? C ) IMO? The BFF is all about IMO. And that is why we debate things. I don't have to prove anything one way or the other And you feel this mindset is scientific? you want to dream up some fantastical explanation as opposed to somehow a commonly known animal created a trackway that's your prerogative. On the contrary.......I have contemplated bounding Mule Deer and Coyotes.........as well as a hoaxer on stilts. They come up short.
Guest DWA Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 Nothing in NA that walks on four legs is making a snow track like the one in Norseman's post above. Nothing on two either....that, you know, we know about.
norseman Posted June 22, 2013 Admin Posted June 22, 2013 I would say Norseman is on to an interesting mystery here. I doubt the tracks posted are the result of a hoax. So, what animal made them? I suspect a four-legged bounding animal. But, if this were the case, such prints would be more common and ought not be a mystery to woodsmen. Then again, I'm speaking from ignorance since I don't hang out with woodsmen. I've spooked Mule Deer bucks and they will bound in snow and make similar tracks, but at some point they will break out of that gait and leave a quadraped hooved track way. Coyotes will bound as well........but not eight feet. In either case your going to find corresponding tracks with each species at some point in the track way. Is it some guy on stilts? I don't know, but I highly doubt it. I posted a video somewhere of a guy on stilts walking in the woods. It was less than impressive. At this point? My only hypothesis for a hoax is some one flying along in a helo, with concrete left/right feet dropping them into the snow every eight feet. This would work in a field. But as a fireman I can attest to the dangers of helo's dangling a line off the skids in forested terrain. It's dangerous.
Guest DWA Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 That track was made in that snow, in other words, melted, consolidated snow as shown in the picture. It wasn't made in deeper fluffier snow and then melted. No way a deer, rabbit or anything else known in North America traveling in snow like that leaves that signature.
Guest DWA Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 I don't have to prove anything one way or the other you want to dream up some fantastical explanation as opposed to somehow a commonly known animal created a trackway that's your prerogative. Did you just repeat what I said in my post, once again DWA you make absolutely no sense to me whatsoever! No, I modified what you said to reflect reality. And once again with the no-speaka-language routine. Funny I never see proponents doing this. But there are at least three bigfoot skeptics on here doing it regularly. Telling. No, you need to prove nothing. No need to have a position we respect, either. Your option.
Guest Cervelo Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 Norse, Absolutley I'm playing the odds no shame in that game....it's all about probabilities Again I've never said its a hoax that's on you prove where I've said anything about a hoax! Sorry cant help you with the Bison if you don't get it you never will not going to waste my time or yours. Again I'm not going to play word games about what is and the definition of scientific... you and DWA can go play in that sand box....he loves that subject for sure FYI DWA I don't have you on ignore I'm just ignoring you
norseman Posted June 22, 2013 Admin Posted June 22, 2013 Norse, Absolutley I'm playing the odds no shame in that game....it's all about probabilities Again I've never said its a hoax that's on you prove where I've said anything about a hoax! Sorry cant help you with the Bison if you don't get it you never will not going to waste my time or yours. Again I'm not going to play word games about what is and the definition of scientific... you and DWA can go play in that sand box....he loves that subject for sure FYI DWA I don't have you on ignore I'm just ignoring you So if your simply playing the law of probabilities, how does one discern anything? And I don't think I'm playing word games........don't know why you keep bringing that up. I think I've been pretty direct in my debate here.
Guest Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 norseman, My hypothesis for these "postholed" tracks in deep snow is a four-legged bounder. I've never read an account of them or seen photos that would rule that out for me. You say you didn't see any hoofprints or any evidence that a quadraped had broken gait. That's interesting, but still doesn't rule out a quadraped. A "bounding deer that was able to keep up that gait for a longer distance than norseman thought possible" is still more likely than a striding bigfoot. Coyotes, foxes, fishers, and maybe some other candidates might also be possibilities. Snow conditions could've prevented any identifiable hoof marks, or cause you to interpret them as 5 toes. While I cannot explain your experience to your or my satisfaction, that doesn't mean that bigfoot was the culprit. You say the prints were 8' apart and the snow was how deep? For a little "back of the cocktail napkin" figuring, I've got a 34" inseam and my stride on a "giant" step is about 4'. I could no way "posthole" if taking giant steps, however, unless the substrate was really shallow, e.g., < 1". If I was trying to posthole in a deep substrate, e.g., soft, knee-high snow, my stride would have to be much shorter, maybe only about 1.5'. Now if I run to increase my stride length I could come closer to 8' but my prints would be less likely to appear postholed. So if bipedal, those impressions were made by something walking, not running, and something that was lifting the knees up high on each stride, not stretching out to lengthen the stride. Here's some math for Saskeptic. I'm 6'2" (74") and my inseam is 34". On my normal stride on level ground, the toe-to-heel distance is 25". When I max out what I could "posthole" in knee-deep snow, that toe-to-heel distance is reduced to 15": 60% of my normal stride length. If the 8' distance of the prints in the track was measured toe-to-heel (and assuming a biped of Saskeptic proportion), the walking stride length would normally be 40% longer than 8', or about 134"(about 11'). So I've got a 34" inseam and a 25" stride. We're looking for the inseam of something with a 134" stride. My algebra skills are a bit rusty, but I come up a 182" inseam for that 134" stride. That's a biped that, if shaped like me, would enjoy a cooling breeze in its crotch 15' above the ground. Now my cocktail napkin analysis could have gone awry in several different places, so I'm not going to hang my hat on this and say: impossible! You'd need a bigfoot close to 30' tall to make those prints! But, have you considered just how tall a biped would have to be to have made the track you found? If the prints were really postholed, in deep snow, and really 8' apart, then we have to be considering a biped very much bigger than bigfoot is reported to be, right? This was no 7-footer, for sure. What do you think?
Guest Cervelo Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 (edited) I've even got proof!! Giant Bigfoots with little tiny feet and their coyote buddies roaming the countryside, smokin cigs, gifting and playin tic tac toe.....I'm on board Edited June 23, 2013 by Cervelo
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