Guest Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 [ Yes, but one doesn't assume that people just run around doing that. How many Mothman sightings were there? Compare to sasquatch. Right. Argumentum ad populum. I don't believe in magic. My point was that we can't presume alien abductions aren't happening. And we can't, and it's wrong to do so. And I presented several reasonable objections why it's safe to assume that they aren't. You have yet to counter those objections with anything but arguments from magic and band wagon arguments. Yes it is how they work. One did not start with that assumption. In fact, one didn't assume. One tested it. One may have had a theorem; a theorem tested is not an assumption. You don't get a theory until you test a hypothesis, which is a scientific way of saying an educated guess or assumption. One does not believe bigfoot isn't real. One considers bigfoot an unresolved question. The difference is apples and Ganymede. One can believe that Bigfoot aren't real, actually. Or are you going to suggest that one can consider dragons, mermaids, unicorns, alicorns, gorgons, centaurs, minotaurs, and any other mythological or near mythological creature are unresolved questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 They do it for the same reason the chicken crossed the road......because they can, and people will watch them do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 They do it for the same reason the chicken crossed the road......because they can, and people will watch them do it. Agreed, people love a specticale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWA Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Argumentum ad populum. Not really. Just the scientific mind making bets based on evidence. Again, thousands of people might be wrong when all are independently seeing the same thing. You bet that proposition; I mean I have to collect my winnings from somewhere. And I presented several reasonable objections why it's safe to assume that they aren't. You have yet to counter those objections with anything but arguments from magic and band wagon arguments. Didn't I just say I don't believe in magic? If there is one thing critical thinking needs, it's the understanding that no reasonable position exists that is not backed by evidence. You don't get a theory until you test a hypothesis, which is a scientific way of saying an educated guess or assumption. Actually, one can have a theory that hasn't been tested. The difference between a theory and an assumption is that the former is tested; the latter isn't. One can believe that Bigfoot aren't real, actually. Or are you going to suggest that one can consider dragons, mermaids, unicorns, alicorns, gorgons, centaurs, minotaurs, and any other mythological or near mythological creature are unresolved questions? Well, can you prove that any of those things aren't real? Nope; I won't either; and nope, no one is likely to try. But none of those have anything to do with sasquatch. Every other thing that has as much evidence as sasquatch has been proven to exist. You won't find an exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Didn't I just say I don't believe in magic? That isn't what an argument from magic means, actually. If there is one thing critical thinking needs, it's the understanding that no reasonable position exists that is not backed by evidence. It is reasonable to conclude that people aren't being abducted by aliens due to the complete lack of evidence. The negative claim reigns supreme until evidence is presented for the positive claim. This is why I believe that Bigfoot is likely to exist but alien abductions don't. Actually, one can have a theory that hasn't been tested. What, like Schrodinger's cat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steve Byrne Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Ahh, this seems to have drifted from a thread on hoax motivations, to one skepticism and evidence... That's cool... I am actually a skeptic, and perhaps more than most people, because I am skeptical of both the existence of Sasquatch AND humanity's ability to have uncovered the evidence necessary to privately prove the existence of a nocturnal, apex predator that hides from humanity in thick forest. I say "privately", because no cooperative group effort has been made to find them. Grover Krantz was correct in that all it would take is a few thousand people hiking northward in a broad line through the Olympic Penninsula in a big sweep. I don't think it could be done without seriously disrupting other wildlife, so I wouldn't endorse it, but I think the general feeling that we should have found proof or a body by now falls under the category of doing the same thing over and over and somehow expecting different results. How many cases are there where a witness has boldly pursued what they saw or heard? I think this is the biggest part of the problem. Comparisons with the successes of tracking less threatening creatures or ones that don't hide are irrelevant. I think this is also a different problem and because of their hoaxable morphology... a VERY different problem. Both explanations to the phenomenon are incredible... Incredibly pervasive hoaxing, hallucination, misidentification and lying forever... or a real "undiscovered" animal that the public has largely been convinced does not exist... WOW! Both claims are extraordinary, but... "Something real is making those tracks"... (Rene Dahinden). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheellug Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Why do bullies bully? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePhaige Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 (edited) There is another kind of hoaxer that I don't believe has been mentioned here and this is a sad thing. There is the individual who actually has had an experience or perhaps several and just cant get the evidence to prove to his/her peers and is perhaps an insecure person to begin with. Rather than accepting they have had a unique and personal experience and not be so consumed with proving to other humans to fulfill some missing component to their character or personality they begin to fabricate. Some speculate this was happening with Patterson and Freeman, so that it brings into question the footages that are in actuality real. When one becomes so obsessed to prove to others, they can and will do strange things. To what extent and if at all to what degree this was happening in these cases is merely speculation. I just bring it up because it has been argued before. I personally believe those images in both films are bonafide. Being someone who has had multiple encounters it is difficult enough to deal with non believers and how they write you off, but this is a reality of this genre of oddness, and to then imagine fabricating something to then attempt to prove to others and then getting caught red handed ...my God man, that would just be a double whammy. I just chose to know what I know and if the truth is the truth just between me and my maker, then so be it. Another type of hoaxer that I believe exist are the agenda based hoaxers..people who wish to perpetuate the lie that SSq is not real , and is just a crazy persons endeavor. These types want to get caught. There is enough evidence to show without question that the federales are covering up this phenomenon...if you don't believe that then stay asleep, but its absolutely real. Does anyone think that this case in Myakka FL where the rangers claimed that people in a suit were caught the day before wasn't a coincidence...cmon now, and then to say that Stacy and his gang were seen sporting suits. Myakka is a recent example and hasn't even fully played out yet, there are many. This is how the disinformation campaigns are fought and people will be used to perpetuate hoaxes for a disinformation agenda..not unlike many protesters are paid or fed to protest and have no idea what they are protesting with their conveniently pre-printed signs...lol Edited March 30, 2013 by ThePhaige Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Sounds like one of those rat crazy conspiracy theories, no offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePhaige Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Sounds like one of those rat crazy conspiracy theories, no offense. None taken, thats exactly what it is Heres a good listen to respected researcher Will Jenving regarding such instances. There are so many that when you call this rat crazy , you just really end up seeming silly. No offence http://inspired-by-bigfoot.wq4d.net/audio/inspiredbybigfoot-2012-12-18.mp3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Read up. Again they come with the do my research for me thing. So, I take it that means you have nothing to support your sweeping claims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 (edited) None taken, thats exactly what it is Heres a good listen to respected researcher Will Jenving regarding such instances. There are so many that when you call this rat crazy , you just really end up seeming silly. No offence http://inspired-by-bigfoot.wq4d.net/audio/inspiredbybigfoot-2012-12-18.mp3 Sounds like an episode of Coast-to-Coast AM, which does not bode well for it. Edited March 30, 2013 by Leftfoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePhaige Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 None taken, thats exactly what it is Heres a good listen to respected researcher Will Jenving regarding such instances. There are so many that when you call this rat crazy , you just really end up seeming silly. No offence http://inspired-by-bigfoot.wq4d.net/audio/inspiredbybigfoot-2012-12-18.mp3 Sounds like an episode of Coast-to-Coast AM, which does not bode well for it. You're entitled to your opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 You're entitled to your opinion Mind if I ask a question? Do you really think there are people out there going around uprooting entire sections of forest just because of a single sighting of Bigfoot as suggested by that crazy sounding guy in the audio file? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePhaige Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 You're entitled to your opinion Mind if I ask a question? Do you really think there are people out there going around uprooting entire sections of forest just because of a single sighting of Bigfoot as suggested by that crazy sounding guy in the audio file? Sure ask away... I do now what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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