At Tipping Point Of Bf Acceptance Culturally?

[Gotta Know]

My question takes a bit of a wind-up, so apologies in advance for the long post. As a first-time poster, I want to say what a relief it is to finally talk to others. By way of introduction, I must share that I have no first-hand interactions (that I am aware of), but as a hunter and avid fly-fisher I have no doubt that I have been "seen" many times. In the last two weeks, I have caught the BF "bug" as it were, and have read hundreds of reports, poured over vids and checked out the pics. I have to say, I'm a little freaked out simply knowing that I have been deep within BF territory and vulnerable. Yet, no sightings, no rocks thrown, no screams, etc. Ignorance was bliss and I simply camped, fished, hunted, cleaned up after myself and went on my merry way. I've floated a wild Alaska river (Talachulitna) for salmon with three buddies, and hunted caribou 100 miles north of Tok and far above the arctic circle. In both cases, our only concern at the time was bears. And now, I know that we were at the mercy of an even greater predator, only it's one who seems to know everything about us but we know so little about him. As I said, this new awareness of what has always been is a bit freaky, but goes to my question to follow. 

 

So why the sudden BF interest? I'm not sure, exactly. I do watch "Finding Bigfoot" but my interest goes back much further than that. I was raised in the East Bay of San Francisco, and in the 6th grade (1972) one of our teachers used to read books on either BF or Aliens to his classes, always with a conviction that these were very real phenomenon. Gotta love that liberal CA public education--haha!

 

Of all the reading I've done these last couple of weeks, one comment that has stayed with me was from the Fred Beck story regarding Ape Canyon in 1924. At the very end of his "book" he states, "I have explored the distant future which beckons to us with hope. I have told you my story and it is true. Abominable Snowmen are a part of the creation. Will we hear much more from them? Will their habitat change from selected mountains to nearer our populous cities? I think they will. They are just one little mystery from the ocean of mysteries."

 

Through my research I have learned that even though I have lived in mostly suburban environments, I have always been close to BF. My family had property in the Santa Cruz mountains; I now understand that many believe this is prime BF habitat. I currenly live in W. Seattle, and I was fascinated to learn how many sightings there have been here in King County. Mostly in the outerlying areas around Auburn, Duvall, Carnation, etc. There was also a recent sighting in the front yard of a woman's house in Ocean Shores that struck a nerve (a coastal WA town but thickly populated at times during the year). While relative wilderness is all around Ocean Shores, the last place I'd expect old BF to snooze the day away would be in someone's hedgerow right in town!

 

So for those of you in the know, just how "domestic" is our big friend now and has it always been that way, or is it increasing as per Fred Beck's prophecy? Have we merely invaded his territory to the point where he's got no other place to go thus the increased sightings, or is our social awareness (and acceptance!) such that he feels safer coming back into our settled areas? Any and all thoughts are greatly appreciated.

 

Oh, and one last thing I've been pondering. I understand that rock throwing is a way of trying to communicate. Small rocks to me seem like a playful advance, as if to say, "Hey, it's me. Do you know I'm here?" While big rocks are obviously a "get out now" message. To the former, I don't think I've ever read where anyone has ever playfully tossed the small rocks back. I'd be curious to hear from people who might have tried this tactic as a way to start a dialogue.

 

Again, apologies for the long post. I'm afraid that among my fishing/hunting friends no one wants to even consider the possibility we have not been "alone," so I appreciate the chance to bounce ideas around. So yeah, we still have a ways to go with social acceptance, but it sure feels like the pace is quickening. Especially if they're all but moving in next door...

 

 

 

[Sasfooty]

Welcome to BFF!

 

That was a well thought out post, but I think more importantly, the question we should be asking is "Why do they suddenly have such an interest in us?" I've been looking for an answer for several years, & the answers I'm getting are not what I expected.

[ThePhaige]

Its interesting to see so many people awakening to the possibility that this is the real deal, even without having a bonafide encounter. I enjoyed reading your post and welcome you to this strange and sometimes wondrous world that is the SSq. I can only hope that if any encounters do happen for you that they are of a positive nature, as many people believe they are a positive form of existence. When I hear that people feel they are a good and pure species that only want good things for us, I cringe within my own memories of my encounters as I was lured in by the wonders and the seeming special "chosen one" like attribute to the whole thing that quickly changed for me. MY encounters were not fun, they were not friendly (even though at first I thought they were) and I feel like I am very lucky to have broken out of that whole cycle they had set up in my life. To put it bluntly it was horrible, dangerous and I feel I am lucky to be alive, and I will leave it at that. 

 

I feel like the quote you selected there from 1924 is absolutely accurate, there is something happening, a movement if you will in the usual ways of this species...some will see it as a spiritually significant type thing, as a type of symbiosis if you will..even wonderful, and then others perhaps like myself will see it for something else entirely. The one word I can use to sum up my whole involvement with them is "pain". Im not here anymore because I have the bug, or for that mystery feeling, I am here to try to empathize with others who have been through similar events that I have and perhaps help bring some closure as I have worked so hard to achieve. Here of late though I have felt I may need to just let go of this whole thing all together and just let my story fade into my own personal memory and leave this place. I am not encouraged like I used to recently feel, on the contrary I feel like the downer in the room and that's no fun at all. I just always want to be truthful about where I've been and where the research led/leads me, and its taken me to places that seem to isolate me more than unify me with others... it is what it is and I accept that. My life has been friggin awesome on so many levels I cant even communicate that in English effectively, but this particular chapter I am conflicted on where to go next, and perhaps that means closing the book on it and being silent about it. 

 

So when I hear someone newer to all of this coming in...I understand the draw this phenomenon has on the mind and spirit, the obsessive pull it can have to garner the next piece of the puzzle, or that perfect numerical sequence that opens up the truth of it all. It seems an almost desperate quest to get square with it all only to find out its a circle...

[Guest]

Plussed Gotta Know...welcome too.

Nice penname too.  It's why we all are here... welcome!

[Guest Serohs]

I can tell you for me it was the show. Let me explain it further though. I already had an interest. Every since I was a little boy, but life catches up with getting educated, starting a career, getting married and having children. I have always been the outdoor type and thankfully my sons are also of the same mind. In the age of instant communication and video games my boys still would rather go camping on a weekend instead of being tethered to the computer or cell phones. It was the show though that brought bigfoot back into our conversations and made it something else to do outdooors while hiking or camping. So no matter what other peoples thoughts are whether good or bad about the show it at least in my case and maybe others brought it back up out of our memories and made it something to be interested in again. Which in turn allowed me to use google and find this site as it goes beyond the theatrics that is the T.V. show and gets deeper into the substance of the search for bigfoot.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Serohs

[LeafTalker]

Welcome, Gotta Know! I think there are others who agree that "the pace is quickening". I personally think it's related to the current state of the planet -- the difficulty it's in -- but in what way, exactly, I have no clue. 

 

And Serohs, it was the show that did it for me, too, and I'm very grateful to it. I also think the show is part of the quickening pace. 

 

I understand the draw this phenomenon has on the mind and spirit, the obsessive pull it can have to garner the next piece of the puzzle, or that perfect numerical sequence that opens up the truth of it all. It seems an almost desperate quest to get square with it all only to find out its a circle...

 

What a great sentence and interesting thought...... I never guess right at the shapes of things, at the outset, and sometimes don't know what I've got at the end, either. 

[Guest JiggyPotamus]

Great post, and welcome to the forums. I was just thinking about all of the people, like yourself, who have spent lots of time in the woods yet have never had any strange activity happen to them, and no sightings of sasquatch. We know that there are quite a number of reports, the majority of them likely being credible, and thus we also must assume that, statistically speaking, there have been many more sightings than have been reported. And it is not always the experienced woodsman, or the person who spends the most time in the wilderness, who has a sighting. Many sightings are from a distance, where the sasquatch apparently knows nothing is in its immediate vicinity, and just fails to notice what is happening far off from it, despite its being visible to humans. Often times it seems these bigfoot are immersed in some activity. So out of all the sightings, not that many seem to be of the nature where someone is walking in the woods and just happens upon a sasquatch standing right in front of them out in the open.

 

I would think that the majority of the time a sasquatch is near to a person, the person is not going to see them. Especially, and I mean especially, if the sasquatch remains still. Our vision is dependent on motion when we are looking into something like trees, since everything seems to be of a similar color. All those earth tones in a forest makes the dark-colored sasquatch difficult to detect. So I am positive that people have walked right by sasquatch without them seeing the animal. This means that sasquatch can hide without putting in much effort. If they were purple or pink the sightings would obviously be greater. So basically my point is that not seeing sasquatch does not mean that a person has not had an encounter, it just means they did not notice the sasquatch. But it is impossible to know how often this happens or does not happen. So I am led to believe that absence of sightings by people who spend a lot of time in the woods is not really indicative of sasquatch not being there.

 

Plus, it will depend on the human who is in the woods to begin with. As I said already, if the sasquatch remains still, it could be 10 or 20 feet from a person without them knowing, therefore a person's eyesight and focus on their surroundings will play a huge part in whether they have a sighting. Anyway, moving on to another aspect of sasquatch. I have been one the few sasquatch enthusiasts who believe the bigfoot population is booming. Maybe not booming, but at least on the rise. And I agree exactly with the statement you made about sightings increasing because of an increase in population size. It never really made sense to me that their population would be stagnant, as this would mean the birth rates and the death rates were fairly equal. And I think that a female sasquatch is likely to not remain single, but will either be having a baby, or be pregnant, or be sought after. It will be one or the other in my opinion, because sasquatch are not likely to possess the social graces of humans, and are probably more apt to behave like any other forest animal in this regard. So I would personally think that the birth rates would be relatively high, or at least not low.

 

And as far as death rates are concerned, we know that sasquatch can grow to be very big. This takes time. There have been sightings of small ones all the up to juveniles and huge males. So this seems to me to be heartiness, and coupled with the abundant food supply and lack of predators in North America, I cannot see sasquatch dying all that often. This likely plays a part in no remains ever being found, although there are a few other good reasons for that as well, which is a topic for another thread. So I cannot see how their population could be declining or even remaining stagnant or constant.

 

What else...Oh, the rock throwing. I would figure that the rocks are usually, as you said, a warning that you are unwanted in a certain area. It seems to me that this aggressive behavior, along with displays utilizing trees, are perpetrated by male sasquatch moreso than females. I would think a female would do this if she had young, but I cannot imagine why she would not just flee. Maybe it depends on the situation. But I believe males are more likely to engage in this type of behavior. I never have thought about a sasquatch throwing smaller rocks at a person in a playful manner. This is quite possible though. Maybe this behavior would be seen more with juvenile sasquatch, but I cannot be sure. I wonder where they always seem to find these rocks. Haha, actually, maybe this behavior would be seen more often if there were rocks to be had anywhere. I have seen areas of forests without any rocks, especially in places here in Texas where I live.

 

A huge part of the problem of determining sasquatch behaviors is that we are not certain how much intelligence should be attributed to them. Obviously they are smarter than any other animal that lives in the forest, but are they as intelligent as a person? I have always maintained that the two types of intelligences are difficult to compare, because a sasquatch only needs to be smart in association to its environment, and that is hard to compare to the type of intelligence we need in our world. Maybe the question should be do they have the "capacity" to learn some of the things we know and use? There are very few humans in this world however who are on par with a sasquatch when it comes to their turf. This is because even a person with excellent woodcraft skills is still going to lack the instincts and senses possessed by a sasquatch. It is no wonder they are so hard to find. Anyway, again welcome to the forums, and I look forward to reading other posts by you. If you have any questions about anything I said, or want me to clarify something I mentioned, feel free to send me a message.

[Guest]

I think the seemingly increased attention to this subject is the result of the same improvements in technology that has taken over world news. Instant media from anywhere to everyone.

 

Like you I was a young kid interested in legends and  monsters, but in the 60s and 70s there was only so much information to be had. Maybe some random TV show that you had better have heard about and your parents let you watch, because it is not like you could just DVR it for later. I eventually read all the books and articles available at my local library

 

It was hard to stay motivated as new reports seldom.trickled in and life went on. But even as an adult my interest always picked up when there was something new to see or read. 

 

Nowadays it would be hard for somebody to claim that they have exhausted all the information available to them on this or really any subject.

 

I dont really remember when my last Bigfoot bout of interest but it was when a nephew was curious about it as a boy and I helped him with some internet links, probably the late 80s.

 

This current interest for me has been going on for a few months now and it seems an endless supply of information at every turn. Which may seem like some revelation is about to occur but its been 40+ years of hoping for me. it is likely just the vast availability of material in this digital age,  gp

[Guest]

Welcome Gotta Know!  I do have to disagree just a little bit though.  In my experience, we (collectively) are not closer to a cultural acceptance.  In fact, I think Finding Bigfoot has only helped widen the gap between those with an interest in the subject and those who equate it to chasing rainbows and unicorns.  Sure, the show has perhaps rekindled a spark that many of us had decades ago, and now we can easily find reports of sightings etc to turn that spark into flame.  But it (along with Monster Quest etc) also has introduced people who had never seriously considered the phenomenon - and for the first time they see people who honestly believe in it and mock them for it.  The general public's knowledge on the subject is seriously lacking, and doing raves, whoop-whoops and attributing every twig snap to BF damages the credibility of serious researchers.  IMO

 

As far as BF encroaching into suburbia and urban sprawl areas - I am always highly skeptical of those reports.  With their reported reclusive behavior and the vast amount of wilderness and remote areas (especially in the PNW), why would one take a nap in someone's rose garden? 

 

Again, welcome.

[Guest]

Will we hear much more from them? Will their habitat change from selected mountains to nearer our populous cities? I think they will.

 

 

 

I think part of the answer to this is the same mass media phenomena I wrote about in my previous post. Another part is just the nature of animals to seek out habitat for survival and opportunity.

 

And just like us, they begin their lives given the circumstances brought with their birth.

 

I can drive through Estes Park, Colorado and see deer and elk on the side of the road, on the golf course and many times right in town. I know there are bear and cougar nearby. This is a small town in the rockies with a great tourist trade which includes unusually close availability to rutting elk during September.

 

This town is also on the way to Rocky Mountain National Park where I can park at the trail head and hike for several miles to fish an alpine lake. From there I can relax and glass elk activity high above timberline. One bull reclining in the shade alongside the road the other bull miles away taking advantage of the cool breeze on a tree less mountain top.

 

They both seem to have what they want as far as the ingredients of habitat or they would not be there.

 

I would not expect a bigfoot creature to be influenced in habitat choice differently than any other animal that counts on its instincts for survival. 

 

Of course the local wildlife of Estes will adapt to its surroundings and take advantage of opportunity that the wilderness animals will not have.

 

Again,a bigfoot creature will most likely do the same.  

 

But this activity from all animals has been going on forever and is nothing new. Increased human encroachment leads animals into searching for other habitat and or the taking of opportunities. Both of which can lead to human contact which again is nothing new.

 

IMHO, gp

[Gotta Know]

The one word I can use to sum up my whole involvement with them is "pain". Im not here anymore because I have the bug, or for that mystery feeling, I am here to try to empathize with others who have been through similar events that I have and perhaps help bring some closure as I have worked so hard to achieve.

Thank you (and others) for your response, ThePhaige. I obviously have no history of your experiences or earlier posts, so wondering if you'd care to elaborate a bit? Coof if not, or perhaps a PM? Curious if you are talking about physical pain and bodily harm, or emotional pain from your interactions? You state you're lucky to be alive, and that goes counter to others' experiences who seem to feel safer around BF the more they acclimate to the creatures in the course of their field research. Are you stating that the closer you got the more dangerous it became? Is yours a warning message of sorts for others wanting to unravel the BF mystery?  

[Guest]

_{I'll just speak on the title of this thread. Personally I would like us not to view or equate or measure BF in any 'cultural' context. There is not culture for the sun. There is no culture for clouds, or rain. But there are culture's for things that we aren't sure exist. BF either exists or does not. And it need not matter how a culture views it. It either is or isn't, independently of culture.}

[ThePhaige]

Thank you (and others) for your response, ThePhaige. I obviously have no history of your experiences or earlier posts, so wondering if you'd care to elaborate a bit? Coof if not, or perhaps a PM? Curious if you are talking about physical pain and bodily harm, or emotional pain from your interactions? You state you're lucky to be alive, and that goes counter to others' experiences who seem to feel safer around BF the more they acclimate to the creatures in the course of their field research. Are you stating that the closer you got the more dangerous it became? Is yours a warning message of sorts for others wanting to unravel the BF mystery?  

 

 

Thanks for asking Gotta Know ... I wont be going into the minute details on these open forums , but I will say spiritual, mental and physical pain were all experienced. There are on this forum every kind of encounter and level of believer you can imagine... from the pure skeptic who wont accept anything that lets this creature be bonafide, to the agnostic who is skeptical but open to it. Also there are those who have had fleeting glimpses or just a scent and a feeling of being watched... others have gotten a clear look and just feel that we are dealing with a simple undocumented animal , even from the ape , some see them as human in some way or another. Then there are those who have seen them coupled with UFO sightings and some who have seen a whole gamut of paranormal or supernaturally oriented effects on display that involve abilities like , becoming un-see-able, changing aspects of time and space, passing through what some would call portal like conduits, getting inside ones mind, causing one to feel special connections to spiritual things, and things that just slide even farther to the side of wild, weird and for the most part unbelievable. 

 

I would sadly place myself mostly in the last category...and honestly I don't like, but it is what it is....  although I have never seen a UFO associated with them..lol! I can say I  have experienced the things that just defy any kind of rational explanation, and I and those who know me well consider me a rational guy, and by most accounts don't even have a clue what I went through with these things, nor will many ever know except those who I implicitly trust. I certainly didn't knowingly wish these experiences on myself and prior to them ending I was desperate to have it stop...which it had in early 2012 and gratefully so. If anyone knows what its like to go through such a thing and not be able to prove it or even garner an audience to help you through it all then you would know. If what I went through is to face someone just getting into this genre with some seemingly mild interest, then yes its a warning for sure. I don't mean it to say I think you can stop it if that is what is going to be on your path. Just ask many habituators who will say they arent so sure they are the ones doing the habituating, but I think that when the folks like myself (and others) share this side of things,even in the face of being eviscerated by the many others, then perhaps when someone new comes out the other end of this they know they are not alone as I said above. Sometimes I feel like Jack Palance ending with Ripleys Believe it or Not...heh. 

 

It was not my intent to be the party pooper of the thread, I also welcome you to the forum, but things in this world just because they may be big and fuzzy don't necessarily mean they are all warm and fuzzy.. 

Edited April 30, 2013 by ThePhaige

[Oonjerah]

**Edit**
 
Well, WBT1, I disagree. Just as stories of physical Bigfoot have always been here, in America, since long before Europeans came here, also the stories of "magical" Bigfoot are just as old, but not as often told.  
 
I believe in the subjective experiences that others have.  These events cannot be proven, and for me, they don't have to be.  I respect those who are willing to tell of their personal experiences in spite of the ridicule it generally brings. If I limit my reality to things that can be proven by science, I would have to reject a lot of things that are intriguing or fascinating . . . "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." -Hamlet.  "Science" doesn't know everything yet & it doesn't claim to. An open mind is required for learning more of the universe. 

Edited May 2, 2013 by BigGinger
To Remove Offensive Content

[Guest]

Oonjera ~ "I believe in the subjective experiences that others have.  These events cannot be proven, and for me, they don't have to be.  I respect those who are willing to tell of their personal experiences in spite of the ridicule it generally brings."

 

Well that's fine. But where does one draw the line?

 

Oonjera ~  " ...in America, since long before Europeans came here, also the stories of "magical" Bigfoot are just as old, but not as often told."

 

You mean like Kit Fox Mythology? You mean like The thunderbird Mythology? You mean like this mythology? http://www.opossumsal.com/NDN/Porcupine.html

 

Oonjera ~ "If I limit my reality to things that can be proven by science, I would have to reject a lot of things that are intriguing or fascinating..."

 

Like what? Like http://www.opossumsal.com/NDN/crow.html ?

 

Or like Bigfoot. What pray tell is so convincing about the unproven existence of Sasquatch that differs from the (literally) hundreds of reports of beings listed in legend that are not scientifically recognized?

 

Please. Oh please, tell me. How it is that you and your brethren separate the wheat from the chafe?

Edited May 2, 2013 by BigGinger
To Remove Offensive Content