Guest Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 (edited) nicepost KB and plussed...that is a long history and I have always found your posts down to earth and sincere. It is amazing and the lack of any responsible authority or foundation to take such news is odd...I think anyway. This has been going on a long time...I certainly don't feel the same responsibility (if that's the right word) I have in the past, and enjoy myself more.... Old dog..not sure what you mean by habituator but, if it includes those who return to a specific site over the years in an attempt to gain trust...then I would disagree with you, in that many habituators seem to have produced very similar evidence to any group or individual, and in some cases better. I have seen quite a bit here at BFF. But all fall short for most.. I don't share mine broadly b/c I don't think it rises to the level we need for what many seek...something to tip the balance for them...but you are welcome to PM me and take a look Edited May 5, 2013 by apehuman
Guest Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 (edited) Plussed Old Dog, I completely agree. Additionally, comments like "they don't like cameras" have always made me say huh? How do they know what a camera is? Habituation stories have never failed to leave me feeling skeptical. And the way things NEVER seem to pan out around here, I am starting to give up hope that we'll ever have proof! I regret that I have but one plus to give -- and I used it before I read your post. In the case of bigfoot, I think the absence of evidence is evidence of absence. I have no trouble believing "habituators" when they say that they leave food out at night and it disappears before morning. That's a perfectly reasonable claim -- raccoons and cats are nocturnal, after all. I have a hard time believing people who claim that there's a family of giant apes living in their neighborhood but they are unable to gather solid proof. Edited May 5, 2013 by leisureclass
Guest Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 (edited) I rarely respond to the, gosh there's no compelling evidence posts, b/c there is.. One does have to separate the wheat from the chaff, and even with personal experience in the field it can be challenging. But for those without? Really - it's a mess.... I don't begrudge you your viewpoints, but they don't read quite like you might think they do to those who do know, but can't prove... leisureclass and maddog you are welcome to PM me as well and take a look. I do get the feeling many were depressed by the apparent Dyer hoax...not me...don't care actually. Either way... what is distressing is so much time is given that kind of claim.. Edited May 5, 2013 by apehuman
Guest Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 (edited) Wude, its not rocket science. If you are aware of this animals existence you will be of the mindset that of course, the animal could be dangerous. If you are not aware of the animals existence, you will of course continue to put jpg's that are in a sarcastic manner, to answer posters that give you the answers that you wanted in the first pace, that you won't accept. You have no idea of my experience with wildlife. Respect and understanding are both crucial in dealing with species. I remember how Steve Irwin walked the line for decades, and a simple lapse of caution ended his life. Midnight Owl, great post! Ah, Steve Irwin crossed the line ALL THE TIME. It was just a matter of time, before his baby, his wife or he got the 'random' unforseable event. So do many of the idiots on TV, one guy just lost his finger to a rattlesnake, caught on camera BTW. I see these idiots take risks with snakes, the deadliest in the world, all the time. They have little or no respect for what they are dealing with. "Don't run from the Gorilla" is one Diane Fosse was taught, at least in the movie. Bigfoot are in a league of thier own. There is some 'documented' behavior on, to a degree, what to expect. On the other hand, there is the info in the 411 book. I have not heard of any really 'negative' stuff from habituation sites, or 'forced habituations', except that some people want to move out of thier house, and its for sale, in Georgia. I would like to hear more negative habituation stories. I think Bigfoot has it correct, keep humans at an arms length. That seems like a very intelligent thing to do. Maybe it's just me, but in all of these "habituator" situations, many claim to have photo and video evidence, yet not one has come forward with it. I'm not saying anyone is being false, but in all of them that now claim habituation, not one single person has come forward with the evidence of it. I also have to ask why, if a person has no intention of showing anyone the photos or videos, they take them in the first place. As soon as someone comes out with a story of habituating BF, and claims proof, but refuses to show said proof, they get labeled a liar by some. I would say it just wouldn't be worth saying anything, rather than put up with the hassles from others.There are two possible reasons I can think of for withholding evidence. One - you truly want to protect them (so why say anything to begin with?) and two - It is a total fabrication. Mind, I'm not saying anyone on here is fabricating stories, just that these are the scenarios that I personally run through mentally when I hear these reports of habituation. Personally, I would 'side' with Bigfoot, if I had mutal trust and interaction. I would not show any 'idiot Americans' anything! Totally wrong mindset. I don't even like some of the Youtube stuff that is posted, its getting 'too hot'. But even a real one caught on camera will be labeled as a suit by 90% of the people anyway, so it really doesn't matter. Patty is pretty convincing when you hear anatomy experts talk about her. Here is one people don't see. Is it real? Edited May 5, 2013 by Wag
Old Dog Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 I'm just remembering the Janice Carter / Mary Green habituation stories and how they were raked over the coals as hoaxers, but the current crop of claims seem to get a pass. Proof was demanded from them via photos or video, but not now. Why? I can't count the number of times I read from someone that if they ( Carter/Green) had BF's around that much and that close, surely they could gather the evidence. And as far as a camera violating their trust, can someone explain to me how they have the concept of what a camera is and what it does. I think you are attributing way to much critical thinking to them. If they have the understanding and concept of photography, then they should have the concept for tools, shelter and communication. Think about it, that is attributing some fairly abstract thought processes to them. Besides, there are cameras available now that you can't even see or have knowledge of their presence.
Guest Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 I'm just remembering the Janice Carter / Mary Green habituation stories and how they were raked over the coals as hoaxers, but the current crop of claims seem to get a pass. Proof was demanded from them via photos or video, but not now. Why? I can't count the number of times I read from someone that if they ( Carter/Green) had BF's around that much and that close, surely they could gather the evidence. And as far as a camera violating their trust, can someone explain to me how they have the concept of what a camera is and what it does. I think you are attributing way to much critical thinking to them. If they have the understanding and concept of photography, then they should have the concept for tools, shelter and communication. Think about it, that is attributing some fairly abstract thought processes to them. Besides, there are cameras available now that you can't even see or have knowledge of their presence. The camera thing goes into areas of the 'unknown', as I've pointed out. Blank White areas on the cameras that still work fine, in seperate incidents. What they can and cannot sense is unknown at this point. It is bizzaro land, sorry to say.
Old Dog Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 I'm just remembering the Janice Carter / Mary Green habituation stories and how they were raked over the coals as hoaxers, but the current crop of claims seem to get a pass. Proof was demanded from them via photos or video, but not now. Why? I can't count the number of times I read from someone that if they ( Carter/Green) had BF's around that much and that close, surely they could gather the evidence. And as far as a camera violating their trust, can someone explain to me how they have the concept of what a camera is and what it does. I think you are attributing way to much critical thinking to them. If they have the understanding and concept of photography, then they should have the concept for tools, shelter and communication. Think about it, that is attributing some fairly abstract thought processes to them. Besides, there are cameras available now that you can't even see or have knowledge of their presence. The camera thing goes into areas of the 'unknown', as I've pointed out. Blank White areas on the cameras that still work fine, in seperate incidents. What they can and cannot sense is unknown at this point. It is bizzaro land, sorry to say. Just so I understand what your presenting, your suggestion is that they have some sort of mental or physical ability to cause camera images to white out when a photo is taken of them? Correct me if I have misunderstood your position.
Guest Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 I'm just remembering the Janice Carter / Mary Green habituation stories and how they were raked over the coals as hoaxers, but the current crop of claims seem to get a pass. Proof was demanded from them via photos or video, but not now. Why? I can't count the number of times I read from someone that if they ( Carter/Green) had BF's around that much and that close, surely they could gather the evidence. And as far as a camera violating their trust, can someone explain to me how they have the concept of what a camera is and what it does. I think you are attributing way to much critical thinking to them. If they have the understanding and concept of photography, then they should have the concept for tools, shelter and communication. Think about it, that is attributing some fairly abstract thought processes to them. Besides, there are cameras available now that you can't even see or have knowledge of their presence. The camera thing goes into areas of the 'unknown', as I've pointed out. Blank White areas on the cameras that still work fine, in seperate incidents. What they can and cannot sense is unknown at this point. It is bizzaro land, sorry to say. Just so I understand what your presenting, your suggestion is that they have some sort of mental or physical ability to cause camera images to white out when a photo is taken of them? Correct me if I have misunderstood your position. Or something. I heard this from the Georgia couple, off the cuff, and from the Colorado BF research site. Go look for yourself, it gets 'wierd' pretty quick, which I do not like. http://sasquatchinvestigations.org/bigfoot-research/the-trailcam-dilemma/
MarkGlasgow Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 So many habituators, so little evidence. I would however check out some of Apehumans pics. Refreshing to have someone offer something of interest this controversial scenario.
slabdog Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 Sincere question to the habituators: Do you ever wear a digital watch while interacting? Do you ever wear a cell phone while habituating? Do any of you have any electronic devices on you at all while habituating? If the answer is "No...Never". Thank you. If the answer is "Yes" then I would assume it is not the mere presence of electronics that "damages trust", but rather the body language associated with trying to take a picture or video. After all, don't they allegedly approach homes and cars? Those items are packed with electronics. Think "modular approach"....just as dog (and people for that matter) trainers do. A series of small steps eventually becomes a seamless and drastic change. For example: (this could take weeks or months depending on one's level of patience) 1) The habituator carries a deactivated "Go Pro" camera in his pocket and an empty go pro camera housing strapped to the habituator's hat. (modular step one - visual and smell acclimation) 2) Still wearing the empty camera housing strapped to the head, the "go pro" camera is now activated in the pocket but never produced. (modular step 2 - visual, smell and sound acclimation) 3) Eventually, the operational "go pro" camera is inserted into the housing strapped to the head gear. Voila! Commence the "poking of holes" into the plan....
Old Dog Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 As far as smells goes, unless you chose to spend an extended amount of time in the local surrounding area, and forego any form of personal hygiene in the form of soap or deodorant, you will give off a much stronger odor than any piece of plastic your carrying.
Guest Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 (edited) I don't want to detour thread...but I did possess many of those items while out there, and frequently tried to trick them into stepping in front of my cameras...small successes (depends on POV).... and yet with FLIR they seemed not to understand I could see them..humm. The FLIR has a small LED screen and I was filming the screen, so my attention was down (they are hard to read in field actually), although (as bad as the footage is) it is clear one seems to duck slightly when we pan around, and even point on the screen to that location..hummm... but, as I swept the area with a flashlight I could find nothing..and yet the "eye shine" shows up on that IR sensitive film and the vocalizations told me it was the juvenile... My stereo recorder they seemed to not bother so much about..and yet, with a new recorder I struggled a few nights figuring out how long the SD card would run and batteries ..and that 2am battery die...left me irritated b/c I did not catch the running steps. I covered any LEDS on it with electrical tape and left out, but the screen prevented from total black out..unless the battery died..humm. But even so, one can obtain close vocalizations..do they know sound recording versus image recording? Wow, that would change our approach ..hehe It seems they "recognize" a lens In that all cameras, binoculars, trail cams have a circle/glass? One of my future experiments will be to use real time webcam...and video/photos of ongoing camp activity in day..and play back at night..why? Habituation is familiarization and I do know Chimps are happy to use TV programming to learn..and there is evidence BFs do linger to watch TV in rural homes...and..well I have this idea they do want to know us, and we want to know them..but, it's just not safe... really...and perhaps a remote communication station can become a safe way? On the other hand, if they are so cognizant, and desire to remain unproven..nothing is going to persuade that cultural change... although..eventually adjacent cultures do seem to join...or submit Many of the questions you ask here are discussed in some detail in the Habituating thread as well..and many offer their various approaches. I think there is another thread too, dealing with the first stages...the "I think maybe" and associated goings on. Edited May 5, 2013 by apehuman
Guest Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 (edited) I am not a habituator, but an ongoing witness to what I think might be bigfoots interacting with me and some of my friends. When our stuff started in August of this last summer, I went and bought an audio recorder. It's a piece of junk, it can't upload to the computer! Pretty dang useless. My bad. I'm technologically challenged. I'm working on it I do take it with me NOW, but it's been a pretty quiet winter.... OK, absolutely quiet winter, lol! I am definitely hoping that events start up again this summer. It seems (based on August to May observations) that the group I think are in the hills around the Eugene/Springfield, OR, area are migrational. I think they went deep into the mountains for winter and I am hoping they'll come back around in the summer/late summer.... the area they were in last summer was chock full of field crops, orchards and family farms. I think they might have been fattening up for the winter and opportunistically foraging in the fields. If I had to guess where they are now, I'd say they might be near the fields/farms all around where there are new lambs and calves. Because all that is private property I have no access to that area. I'll have to be patient. My guesses... and if they come back this summer, THIS TIME I have had a whole winter to read and hike and get used to my recorder and know more what to look for.... this time, I'm ready If I find anything I will post it, as long as it doesn't compromise their safety in any fashion. The time I felt threatened was when my friend and I went out there to the woods in the early dark, when dusk was falling. They were NOT happy to see us there then and made it known by huffing and chuffing. The other time I felt possibly threatened, was the time being zapped, which since I was alone in my car in the dark and they were 100 yards away or less. All the other times, they interacted with me/us first. I've had three other witnesses with me at various times. You can read my stuff at the In the Field section, "Searching for Bigfoot in Oregon". Since they have made the contact in nearly each time something weird has happened, I don't know if it's dangerous for me and my friends/kid or not. Since we are still here to debate it, probably not. Or, not so far. I have decided that proving them as a species will only cause problems for them and for humans. While I'd personally LOVE to know exactly what they are by DNA, I think it's better that they remain myth and legend and an unacknowledged species. And that's another whole thread, not to derail this one. Edited May 5, 2013 by madison5716
Guest Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 nice post, plussed and a trip off to your thread in the field section! thanks!
Guest Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 So I guess the brass tack question is, have any known 'habituators' been abducted, - I have not read the 411 books yet. (I think I would like to do a group buy, buy one and have people keep buying it until it gets passed around, maybe a few dollars less each sale (for previous careful use) Keep it for one month and unload it. I'm cheap, and have too much stuff I need right now. =) The abductions in the 411 books (Coast) seem to have patterns. Bright clothing, and? Here is one I think was an abduction last year. I wanted to go in the area and let them know this was not OK (if they are there) but I would have needed a few other people. http://www.bouldercounty.org/apps/newsroom/templates/bc12.aspx?articleid=3201&zoneid=2 Back to the brass tacks question, it seems if BF 'knows you', they might have some sort of 'relationship' thing, that they respect your territory etc. The abductions might be 'random' opportunity. The 411 books seem to be the best clue about this.
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