Is Habituation A Safety Hazard?

[Guest]

Treadwell was not killed by a habituated Bear. He stayed in the area of his habituated Bears a bit longer than usual, and was killed by a roaming male Bear not previously associated with the area. It was not an animal that he had habituated or had any previous interaction with. 

 

Treadwell's case would be more similar to a survivalist, camper, or someone who summers in a cottage/cabin being attacked by a rogue aggressor than someone with a habituation relationship being attacked by an individual he knew well. 

 

 

He was killed beause he refused to carry pepper spray, after he used it on one bear. He failed to respect the bear, IE: that they can kill you if they really want. He died a pretty gruesome death because of it.

 

I don't think there is this issue with Bigfoot. If you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, you might get '411'd'. I have heard, I'll do another post, that BF are taking N. Arizona Indians.

I have not heard any evidence here that trying to habituate some can be that dangerous, but it can be psycologically draining. I live 20 miles from a main BF area, and the '40 mile' follow me home has me alot more cautious as to weather I would try to interact with them. And the 411 book makes me cautious as to weather I should hike alone in known BF areas. Bright clothing seems to be an issue. Rainy weather the next day seems to be another issue. Make sure you go when its going to be 'sunny' for a few days in a row. But if they want you, they can move 10 yards in probably 2 seconds, you would not see it comming. But still, I have not heard any negative habituator stories.

 

As to the 411 books, there are some pretty blatent stories that point to bigfoot.

 

Go read the police report on this one:

 

http://lubbockonline.com/stories/061503/nat_061503057.shtml

 

 

"The boy's father, Allyn Atadero, said part of a skull had been found underneath a log and a molar was atop the log."

"On June 5, two hikers who wandered off a trail stumbled upon the toddler's clothing — a fleece pullover, tattered sweat pants and tiny athletic shoes — several hundred feet above the trail where the boy vanished"

 

So, yea, a squirel could have put his tooth on the log where his head is. And, his shoes etc were removed, but no body? Do cougars declothe thier victims before they eat them? Do they untie thier shoes?

[Guest]

No... but people could have.

 

FYI, when you quote a post, type your message outside the [ quote ] [ /quote ] tags, not between them. Only the quoted words should go in there.

[Guest]

If I could pluss I would ForestTone, great information and viewpoint.

[Guest]

 

I don't think there is this issue with Bigfoot. If you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, you might get '411'd'. I have heard, I'll do another post, that BF are taking N. Arizona Indians.

I have not heard any evidence here that trying to habituate some can be that dangerous, but it can be psycologically draining. I live 20 miles from a main BF area, and the '40 mile' follow me home has me alot more cautious as to weather I would try to interact with them. And the 411 book makes me cautious as to weather I should hike alone in known BF areas. Bright clothing seems to be an issue. Rainy weather the next day seems to be another issue. Make sure you go when its going to be 'sunny' for a few days in a row. But if they want you, they can move 10 yards in probably 2 seconds, you would not see it comming. But still, I have not heard any negative habituator stories.

 

As to the 411 books, there are some pretty blatent stories that point to bigfoot.

 

Go read the police report on this one:

 

http://lubbockonline.com/stories/061503/nat_061503057.shtml

 

 

"The boy's father, Allyn Atadero, said part of a skull had been found underneath a log and a molar was atop the log."

"On June 5, two hikers who wandered off a trail stumbled upon the toddler's clothing — a fleece pullover, tattered sweat pants and tiny athletic shoes — several hundred feet above the trail where the boy vanished"

 

So, yea, a squirel could have put his tooth on the log where his head is. And, his shoes etc were removed, but no body? Do cougars declothe thier victims before they eat them? Do they untie thier shoes?

 

 

You mean the same Jared Atadero whose tracks stopped a few feet away from a set of mountain lion tracks, and whose clothes had mountain lion bitemarks in them?    Yep, that certainly sounds like Bigfoot. 

 

 

02 October. Evidence uncovered in June of 2003 positively indicates that 3-year-old Jaryd John Atadero was killed and carried away by a mountain lion. From the initial 1999 investigations, officials had theorized that Jaryd may have been attacked and dragged off by a mountain lion. That horrific possibility emerged four days after his disappearance with news that a dog team and trackers had discovered a small footprint and other subtle signs of Jaryd Atadero that suddenly vanished about 175 yards from where mountain lion tracks were found. Major Bill Nelson of the Larimer County Sheriff's Office and search commander for the first four days after the boy disappeared stated that as the 1999 search progressed, there were multiple reports of cougar signs and sightings in the area. At that time, the Larimer County Sheriff's Sergeant Justin Smith said, "It's certainly consistent with why there have been no solid signs of Jaryd." Until 3 years and 8 months after his disappearance, though, no trace of him had been found in the area where he had been hiking about 1 1/2 miles up the Big South Trail in Poudre Canyon, in Colorado. Hiding and trying to scare them along the trail, he had become separated from his 6-year-old sister, Josallyn Atadero, and 11 adults, themselves separated into 2 groups. Tragically, two fishermen he encountered around noon on his adventures also neglected to restrain the wandering 3-year-old when he asked them where he could find bears.

June 4, 2003, Jaryd's clothing was found by 2 hikers, Gary Watts and Robert Osborne, on a steep (45 degree) rock slope 436 feet above the Big South Trail where the boy was hiking when he disappeared 65 miles northwest of Fort Collins, Colorado. After an official search was begun, his remains (a molar and the top of his scull) were found ten days later about 150 feet from where his clothing was discovered. It was the day before Fathers' Day, June 14, 2003, and the remains were found just about 10 minutes after his father, Allyn Atadero, arrived at the search scene. Allyn was allowed to cradle his son's tooth next to his heart before it was taken into evidence. Osborne and Watts, respected outdoorsmen and businessmen from Fort Collins, both are positive a mountain lion killed Jaryd. "In my mind I have no doubt at all that he was killed by a mountain lion," said Rob Osborne. "As soon as we looked at the fleece jacket and looked at the other clothing, we could see puncture holes from teeth. It looked to me like he was carried, not dragged, up the slope." Duggins Wroe, a wildlife biologist from Wyoming, has examined Jaryd's clothing found at the scene and concluded that damage to the shoulders and upper arms of the pullover are consistent with that caused by a mountain lion grabbing its prey.   

Sources:  (Denver Post; 10/05/1999, A1; 10/06/1999, B6; 10/08/1999, B1; 10/10/1999, B5) (Colorado Springs Gazette - Telegraph; Colorado searchers fear the lost child may have fallen prey to mountain lion; by Bill McKeown; 10/07/99) (The Coloradoan; Punctures in toddler's clothing convince hikers: 'In my mind, I have no doubt at all that he was killed by a mountain lion.'; by Miles Blumhardt, Matthew Benson, and Sarah Langbein; 06/12/2003) (The Rocky Mountain News; Cats nearby on tot's hike Cougars spotted during '99 search; by Joe Garner; 06/14/2003) (The Rocky Mountain News; A poignant Father's Day gift; by Julie Poppen; 06/16/2003) (The Coloradoan; Atadero case may prompt negligence inquiry 'Routine procedure,' sheriff's spokeswoman says; by Matthew Benson; 06/17/2003)

 

 

From:  http://www.cougarinfo.org/attacks2.htm

[Guest JiggyPotamus]

I think there is a huge difference in habituating other animals and habituating bigfoot. I say this because a sasquatch is going to be much more intelligent than any other animal, and I think this makes them less dangerous. If you have an animal that acts sheerly from instinct, you must be worried about unpredictable behavior. Intelligence however is much more predictable. This is not to say it would always be safe, as sasquatch are individuals as well, and therefore one's temperment may be more aggressive than another's. But overall I would say habituating sasquatch is not as dangerous as habituating other animals.

 

But there have been people who have habituated just about every kind of animal out there, and although many of them have gotten the bad side of that animal, there are people out there who have raised violent animals such as alligators without any problems. That one guy raised an alligator from a baby, and now it is huge, and he goes and wrestles with it in the water. Alligators are operating off of a primitive instinctual drive. Humans, and likely sasquatch, have this portion of the reptilian brain, but we have much more intelligence packed on top of it. We see our primitive drives in things like "fight or flight" and "fear," and a sasquatch likely operates from both intelligence and primitive drives of this nature. There is no way of knowing for sure at the moment, but I would think it would be safer than many other animals that have the capability to hurt or kill a human.

 

But think about this as well...Most animals are only going to be habituated through food. Sasquatch can likely be habituated through more advanced means, such as friendship. But given the sasquatch's shy nature, it is going to be much more difficult to get them to trust you. See other animals are not as concerned with trust in my opinion. I think that if another type of animal realizes you have food, it will try to get that food while at the same time analyzing the level of danger. If it senses danger, which may be present or not, it will back away. A sasquatch will be different. It will take a lot longer in my opinion. Honestly, I would not think it has happened very often. Not to the point of direct contact anyway. I think that in the cases where something like this has occurred, the sasquatch have not gone beyond letting the person see them from a distance. I doubt they will come up and get only feet from a person. And even more likely they are going to keep some sort of cover between them and the human. I do not believe the stories of Janice Carter, as they seem preposterous to me.

[clubbedfoot]

they sometimes sound like tricksters...

[Bonehead74]

The habituators or the bigfoot?

Because I definitely agree with the latter.

[Guest]

Ha!

Yes, to both...  but I agree as well..the often present trickster in NA lore, thru Coyote or Raven is reminiscent, or echoes, BF lore...and I think it is plausible that this arises from BF tricks and mimicry..in part...both Coyote and Raven have attributes that could account for that lore alone...

 

and to me that is a difference when comparing BF field work to a bear habituation ..in that BFs are doing a lot more discretionary/cognitive/predicitive decision making...and seem to think more like us (or large apes) than any bear, or cougar...

Edited May 6, 2013 by apehuman

[LeafTalker]

I agree with A, B, and C. (Apehuman, Bonehead, and Clubbedfoot.)

 

I think that BF sometimes takes delight in our confusion, but not in our suffering. 

 

Sometimes we can't, ourselves, tell the difference between confusion and suffering, but that's more on us, to figure out the difference. Wise people say that we cause our own suffering, so when we get more of a handle on that -- on our own responsibility for our own suffering -- it becomes easier to see the true motives of the beings around us. And then we see that the world is not as hostile as we thought. Only our thinking makes it so.....

[Guest]

 

 

I don't think there is this issue with Bigfoot. If you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, you might get '411'd'. I have heard, I'll do another post, that BF are taking N. Arizona Indians.

I have not heard any evidence here that trying to habituate some can be that dangerous, but it can be psycologically draining. I live 20 miles from a main BF area, and the '40 mile' follow me home has me alot more cautious as to weather I would try to interact with them. And the 411 book makes me cautious as to weather I should hike alone in known BF areas. Bright clothing seems to be an issue. Rainy weather the next day seems to be another issue. Make sure you go when its going to be 'sunny' for a few days in a row. But if they want you, they can move 10 yards in probably 2 seconds, you would not see it comming. But still, I have not heard any negative habituator stories.

 

As to the 411 books, there are some pretty blatent stories that point to bigfoot.

 

Go read the police report on this one:

 

http://lubbockonline.com/stories/061503/nat_061503057.shtml

 

 

"The boy's father, Allyn Atadero, said part of a skull had been found underneath a log and a molar was atop the log."

"On June 5, two hikers who wandered off a trail stumbled upon the toddler's clothing — a fleece pullover, tattered sweat pants and tiny athletic shoes — several hundred feet above the trail where the boy vanished"

 

So, yea, a squirel could have put his tooth on the log where his head is. And, his shoes etc were removed, but no body? Do cougars declothe thier victims before they eat them? Do they untie thier shoes?

 

 

You mean the same Jared Atadero whose tracks stopped a few feet away from a set of mountain lion tracks, and whose clothes had mountain lion bitemarks in them?    Yep, that certainly sounds like Bigfoot. 

 

 

02 October. Evidence uncovered in June of 2003 positively indicates that 3-year-old Jaryd John Atadero was killed and carried away by a mountain lion. From the initial 1999 investigations, officials had theorized that Jaryd may have been attacked and dragged off by a mountain lion. That horrific possibility emerged four days after his disappearance with news that a dog team and trackers had discovered a small footprint and other subtle signs of Jaryd Atadero that suddenly vanished about 175 yards from where mountain lion tracks were found. Major Bill Nelson of the Larimer County Sheriff's Office and search commander for the first four days after the boy disappeared stated that as the 1999 search progressed, there were multiple reports of cougar signs and sightings in the area. At that time, the Larimer County Sheriff's Sergeant Justin Smith said, "It's certainly consistent with why there have been no solid signs of Jaryd." Until 3 years and 8 months after his disappearance, though, no trace of him had been found in the area where he had been hiking about 1 1/2 miles up the Big South Trail in Poudre Canyon, in Colorado. Hiding and trying to scare them along the trail, he had become separated from his 6-year-old sister, Josallyn Atadero, and 11 adults, themselves separated into 2 groups. Tragically, two fishermen he encountered around noon on his adventures also neglected to restrain the wandering 3-year-old when he asked them where he could find bears.

June 4, 2003, Jaryd's clothing was found by 2 hikers, Gary Watts and Robert Osborne, on a steep (45 degree) rock slope 436 feet above the Big South Trail where the boy was hiking when he disappeared 65 miles northwest of Fort Collins, Colorado. After an official search was begun, his remains (a molar and the top of his scull) were found ten days later about 150 feet from where his clothing was discovered. It was the day before Fathers' Day, June 14, 2003, and the remains were found just about 10 minutes after his father, Allyn Atadero, arrived at the search scene. Allyn was allowed to cradle his son's tooth next to his heart before it was taken into evidence. Osborne and Watts, respected outdoorsmen and businessmen from Fort Collins, both are positive a mountain lion killed Jaryd. "In my mind I have no doubt at all that he was killed by a mountain lion," said Rob Osborne. "As soon as we looked at the fleece jacket and looked at the other clothing, we could see puncture holes from teeth. It looked to me like he was carried, not dragged, up the slope." Duggins Wroe, a wildlife biologist from Wyoming, has examined Jaryd's clothing found at the scene and concluded that damage to the shoulders and upper arms of the pullover are consistent with that caused by a mountain lion grabbing its prey.   

Sources:  (Denver Post; 10/05/1999, A1; 10/06/1999, B6; 10/08/1999, B1; 10/10/1999, B5) (Colorado Springs Gazette - Telegraph; Colorado searchers fear the lost child may have fallen prey to mountain lion; by Bill McKeown; 10/07/99) (The Coloradoan; Punctures in toddler's clothing convince hikers: 'In my mind, I have no doubt at all that he was killed by a mountain lion.'; by Miles Blumhardt, Matthew Benson, and Sarah Langbein; 06/12/2003) (The Rocky Mountain News; Cats nearby on tot's hike Cougars spotted during '99 search; by Joe Garner; 06/14/2003) (The Rocky Mountain News; A poignant Father's Day gift; by Julie Poppen; 06/16/2003) (The Coloradoan; Atadero case may prompt negligence inquiry 'Routine procedure,' sheriff's spokeswoman says; by Matthew Benson; 06/17/2003)

 

 

From:  http://www.cougarinfo.org/attacks2.htm

 

 

Ok, there were no screams, and the clothing was found separate. No bones, no blood? Tooth on top of a log. Squirel? Or guilty Bigfoot. That area has BF sightings and one 'habituation' that I know of.  Without seeing the evidence at this point, I'd say its up in the air. That 2 fishermen just let him go, well, that speaks to the low-grade morons in that neck of the woods. (Don't see any "quote" marks to get outside of!!???)

 

A cougar would make a mess, and why was the clothing found in all one nice little pile, not spread around, with the feet still in the shoes? NO FRIGGIN WAY JOZE'.

[Guest]

I lived in that area and we had a mountain lion walk across the bridge from the RV park to the fence of the school yard, about 2 minutes before my son and I walked from the school to the RV park (maybe 300 yards apart).  The manager came running out to warn us but we had seen nothing, though it was likely watching us from the brush surrounding the school (which we called immediately but school was already let out, couldn't get the kids back in, hoped for the best).  Slinky bugger just disappeared right near the school.  They are there, they are not afraid and they are wicked stealthy.  And no mountain lion would eat the clothing, just saying....

Edited May 6, 2013 by madison5716

[Guest]

No. They are potentially dangerous, large creatures. It is never safe to associate with large wild animals. 

[Guest]

Hmm, well they searched that area before, why would it bring the clothing back, was it in a tree? Its still a tossup, it could have been a BF getting some easy fast-food! No screams, tooth on log with partial skull (???WTF?) no other bones, clothing found (in what condition) separate, no mention of "blood-stained." Notice the ML report omits 'tooth on top of log'. That is the other wierd thing about this case. Just bizzare. Where was the kill site? Still too many unanswered questions, and of course they are not going to say it might be a BF.

[Guest]

Hmm, well they searched that area before, why would it bring the clothing back, was it in a tree? Its still a tossup, it could have been a BF getting some easy fast-food! No screams, tooth on log with partial skull (???WTF?) no other bones, clothing found (in what condition) separate, no mention of "blood-stained." Notice the ML report omits 'tooth on top of log'. That is the other wierd thing about this case. Just bizzare. Where was the kill site? Still too many unanswered questions, and of course they are not going to say it might be a BF.

 

 

Well, for starters, they hadn't searched the area before - as pointed out in the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal link you posted:

 

Sheriff's officials, who have come under fire recently for not previously searching on foot in the area where Jaryd's clothing was found, contend the boy could not have climbed the slope alone.

 

Wanna keep going? 

[Guest]

 

Hmm, well they searched that area before, why would it bring the clothing back, was it in a tree? Its still a tossup, it could have been a BF getting some easy fast-food! No screams, tooth on log with partial skull (???WTF?) no other bones, clothing found (in what condition) separate, no mention of "blood-stained." Notice the ML report omits 'tooth on top of log'. That is the other wierd thing about this case. Just bizzare. Where was the kill site? Still too many unanswered questions, and of course they are not going to say it might be a BF.

 

 

Well, for starters, they hadn't searched the area before - as pointed out in the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal link you posted:

 

Sheriff's officials, who have come under fire recently for not previously searching on foot in the area where Jaryd's clothing was found, contend the boy could not have climbed the slope alone.

 

Wanna keep going? 

 

 

No blood on clothing?  And it is a mess, but generally, how did the clothing get back to where it was found? Oh, it wasn't searched. Hmmm, I doubt that. There were lots of people and I'm sure they all searched that area. Still its a toss-up. No blood on clothing and an entirely consumed body? I really really doubt that, it would have been a mess. But maybe there was blood etc...there seem to be too many holes in the report, and I don't have the 411 book, and the reports might be doctored if it was too wierd. As stated, that is a Squatchy area. Would a cougar really consume the feet, and where are the crime scene photos of the clothing? Need more evidence of a cougar attack.

 

Anyway, the video was incredible. It seems to show 3 twig Sassy art pieces!! One is human, they seem to represent something. Looking at that video makes me want to try hab out. but again, Im 25 miles or so from squatchy territory or less, they may even cross over on the open properties (no cover) because the squatch areas totally surround it. Not sure I really want any attention at 3am, with rocks wacking the trailer.