Erickson: Sasquatch More Widespread Than Common Black Bear

[Guest]

It's not a cop out Gigantor. When you get close to these beings, you do find that maintaining their trust is much more important then proving to others whom you don't even know. Especially when there are those who will exploit such things. Its a privilege to have them interested in you and its not something to throw away. Yeah I've had a few of my own 'extraordinary' experiences with them, but they are fewer and far between. As limited as they are, I still choose not to share them. Why? So I can respond with 'no I don't have proof either'.

There have been many people over the years who have come to forums with stories of repeat encounters. There's no need for everyone to disbelieve their experiences. There's no need for everyone to believe their experiences. Maybe we can just enjoy the stories and know that we can't prove they didn't happen, just as much as the teller can prove they did. Looking at it this way puts us on even ground and allows those who are having the experiences to proceed with a little positive energy as well.

[Guest Knuck]

I'll assume you're unaware of all the purported behavior and abilities claimed on various threads and postings upon this forum. That you've not made those claims doesn't dispose of the various assertions. You need only read to see to what I'm referring. Don't think I've singled out your stories, I've not. There are boucoups odd claims abounding on this forum, yours notwithstanding.

I-1, I guess my response sounds like like a blanket free ride ticket for others. Sorry about that. I just get frustrated when I continually see sarcastic (and yes they are sarcastic a lot of the time) responses to posts by ANYONE who states they have on-going encounters with sasquatches.

While some may feel that all these people "claiming" these things are hallucinating, high, drunk, lonely, bored, or just plain BSing, there are several who are not. While I don't go along with some of the fantastic things said sometimes, I do appreciate how some feel about compromising the on going situations that they state are going one. If you were in such an amazing position, how would you treat it? You can say with confidence right now that you would provide whatever evidence needed to establish proof to the rest of mankind. In reality, in the midst of it, you may change your mind. Do you have any idea how it feels to be on of the few homo sapiens to be trusted by such an elusive species. A species that inherantly generation after generation, has shunned contact of any kind with us? So after seeing exactly how they behave, thier activities, family orientation, exhibiting respect for others, (including our property) when they are among us, you would be able to turn on them. Exposing them to our cold cruel attitude that has to kill all that we don't understand. If your answer is yes, you elevate us to a position we haven't attained as of yet. It is something to aspire to, but until we can allow other species to live thier own way as they have for many millinea(sp?) I have seen, they are a people. Not just some ape species, or other non human group. They deserve our mutual respect. Not to be murdered for the sake of "proof". I feel that the powers that be know far to well who and what these creatures are. Science at the highest level is envolved, right along with big brother. No conspiracy theory. Just our govt protecting us from things they think would alter our reality from the conventional thinking they/we base our lives on.

I see similarities in many of our encounters. Some may indeed be making up stories. Noone knows exactly what thier reasoning is for telling these things. But it makes it very difficult for the rest of us who really are experiencing these marvelous beings. No, they don't "beam in" from the seventh dimension. Nor do they levitate boulders as big as houses. (that I know of) but they ARE just as complex as we are in physical make up, and mental ability.

If you were capable of eating all your food raw, and had done so all your life, you wouldn't care if you had fire or not. Same thing applies in reference to cold weather. A thick coat of hair/fur, maybe even a higher internal temperature to compensate for the cold.

Sorry to run on, but I just continually speculate why they are like they are. And get disappointed when I see how some can't open thier mind up (at least a little) to the real information they may be hearing. I also can't help not wanting to expose these innocent beings (used as "human beings") to all the BS that our govt. and other organizations will throw at them. They are afraid of us (as a group)for good reason. You know as well as I do, we mess up everything we touch. Sad to say but true. Sorry to run on, just some thoughts on this difficult problem.-Knuck

[Guest Knuck]

Knuck, it is impossible to prove a negative. For example, can you prove that polka-dot spotted pink squirrels do not exist?

The proponent of any extraordinary claim is responsible for providing the proof. I'm a skeptic, but open minded. However, when you start making extraordinary claims, then I need some evidence.

I know, you're not interested in proving anything to anyone, it's a very convenient cop out, especially when you interact with them and see them all the time.

Just don't expect anyone to believe you.

Gigantor, I just want to say that you are boxing yourself in friend. Prove that it's a negative first. lol I'll admit some things I have not seen or experienced sound a little far out to me as well. However, now that I know beyond question that Sasquatches exist, I have to admit, some other things (that I haven't experienced yet,) may indeed be so.

I do not believe everything I hear or read either. All this time I felt that if Sasquatches existed, that they were few, and far between. Not now. I must open my mind further now. Because for what ever reason, I've been shown that myself and most others have thought wrong.

I understand healthy skepticism. But a lot of it on this forum and others is totally negative, and would quash any explorations for the sake of discovery. I'm not a scientist, but I am a fairly intelligent human, who has been trained, and worked most of my adult life in investigations, and dealing with human nature. I state plainly in most of my posts, as you must agree, that I don't expect everyone to believe what I am saying about experiencing. If I felt that way, I would bring in the media, and stand on the town square proclaiming my happenings. But this venue, "The Bigfoot Forum" is supposed to be first and formost, the place to come and indeed discuss my experiences. Not deal with the same reactions and attitudes that I would see in the media or the town square. I suspect that's what the forum's "original" intent was. But it isn't that now. It is no wonder people with REAL experiences with these REAL creatures, stay shut up about it.

There is, I'm sure, more than one forum designed just for people to argue the non-existence side of this subject. However, some feel they must police everyone on what they can think, or experience, or say out loud. And that all but them are too ignorant to read truth amongst BS.

Those that want to have people come forward had better learn that negativity is NOT going to get the job done.

Lastly, it is not my job to provide you or anyone else with proof. No "cop-out" just fact. Our precious scientists who don't put any credence in thousands of firsthand reports ARE responsible to us to provide proof. One would think a discovery this important should put it on the same level as space/deep sea exploration. There is much more afoot (no pun intended) here than simple negative thinking. If we are indeed thinkers, we must ask and wonder why no more effort is being put forward to discover or put to rest these encounters and long ago stories of this "mythical" species.JMEO-Knuck

[Huntster]

It's not a cop out Gigantor. When you get close to these beings, you do find that maintaining their trust is much more important then proving to others whom you don't even know.

While I fully understand the need for a shy, reclusive animal to obtain and maintain trust in a person in order for that person to repeatedly interact with it, how does that creature know whether or not you go home at night, pick up the phone, and call somebody like Dr. Meldrum?

Especially when there are those who will exploit such things.

Does that include "science"? (Honest question there, because I frankly don't see much difference between "science" and P.T. Barnum, in many cases, and sasquatchery is definately one of those cases).

Its a privilege to have them interested in you and its not something to throw away. Yeah I've had a few of my own 'extraordinary' experiences with them, but they are fewer and far between. As limited as they are, I still choose not to share them. Why? So I can respond with 'no I don't have proof either'.

Interesting. You specifically refuse to obtain proof of their existence in order to tell us that you don't have proof?

Can you tell us why that is?

There have been many people over the years who have come to forums with stories of repeat encounters. There's no need for everyone to disbelieve their experiences. There's no need for everyone to believe their experiences.

That may be so, but do you understand the need that many have for "undeniable", "solid", "compelling", <adjective> evidence in order to invest funds, time, and effort into understanding these creatures and to include them in the taxonomy of known biological creatures on this planet?

Maybe we can just enjoy the stories

Yeah, I suppose some of us could.

But, as a nearing 40 year Alaskan hunter/fisherman/outdoorsman, I've already got a bucketful really neat campfire stories that are true which appear to be entertaining enough. I don't need phony monster (or fairy) stories to entertain myself or others.

[Guest]

One of the sounds (that is not mimickry) they make is a very delicate chatter, I've found that it sounds almost exactly like squirrel monkey chatter. They also make a sound that may be teeth chattering very quickly. Sometimes, if a particular young one see's me, he will "call" to me in what I can only describe as a loud gasp. If I'm on my back deck, (after dark), and he is going to the next road over, he uses the yard above my next door neighbor's. Sometimes he won't stop. When he does, if I don't know he is there, he will either bang on the top of my neighbor's chain-link fence or rattle it to get me to look. I wave and gesture "friend". I wish I could see him to know if he is gesturing back. The one I think is the dominant male of the group sometimes does some new mimickry he has learned, to see how I react. He did a horse perfectly several times one night, while standing in the trees across the road from me. I clapped (lightly) and shook my head "affirmatively".(The closest horse at that hour of the night was 1 1/2 miles away minimum. I have "tongue clucked" little tunes, and he has repeated them back the next day exactly as I did them. Once in a great while, I hear three or four peacocks up the road (in the neighborhood) calling out. We have no peacocks in the area. Last week I heard them, and I hadn't heard a peacock in almost two years. They like doing barred owl calls to locate each other in the neighborhood. True some are the genuine article. But at least half the time it's the Squatches. It's a lot of fun, and ultimately fascinating! (I know, to most this is nothing but my little make-believe story) It's your right to think that. Long as you think that way, you'll never know. Southernyahoo, you have a good one!-Knuck

Knuck, any whistle exchanges? That has worked for numbers of people that I know (according to them but I got to listen to one recording of it). The juvenile behavior you describe I believe we have recorded. Also, I think when the adults come in we get some of that from them. But I do not know that for sure.. but it seems when the sentinel youth are around, they do not do it. Usually takes a bunch of time for the whistle tunes to get picked up in my experience but that has been described to me from a series of different sources. Thanks for the descriptive comparisons, it is fun to compare. I hope to be able to offer some recordings in the near future but not everyone I am working with is keen on that. I will have some of my priv land owner correspondants try the tongue cluck idea.. that sounds neat. It would be cool if we could come up with some recordings from different areas for comparison on little experiments Whoops I put this on the public forum.. imagine that ! lol

Edited March 22, 2011 by treeknocker

[masterbarber]

I will have some of my priv land owner correspondants try the tongue cluck idea.. that sounds neat.

It has worked for me on Deer, Squirrels and a Buffalo...I've been approached by each.

[Guest fenris]

That may be so, but do you understand the need that many have for "undeniable", "solid", "compelling", <adjective> evidence in order to invest funds, time, and effort into understanding these creatures and to include them in the taxonomy of known biological creatures on this planet?

Many, or you? Some are happy to know they're out there, so maybe dont presume to speak for "everyone" if that's your intent. It's been my feeling for some time that the subject can get so needlessly heated because of people who feel they're "owed" the proof, and these are same people often who get genuinely mad when evidence gets questioned to the point that they call these folks "the enemy". This really isn't the conflict and noone owes these people anything, it' simply a matter of common interest, and the segemnt I refer lastly come off frankly as cultish at times. If some enjoy the tories, believe or don't believe, but noone owes you proof.

phony monster (or fairy) stories to entertain myself or others.

That helps...

[Guest Kane2002]

Well, since we don't seem to need proof of anything, anywhere. How are we going to be able to prove that Sasquath is more widespread than the common black bear?

[gigantor]

But this venue, "The Bigfoot Forum" is supposed to be first and formost, the place to come and indeed discuss my experiences.

Not on every thread in the forum it isn't. This thread is not to discuss your personal experience, we were talking about the black bear distribution vs BF distribution until you rudely hijacked the conversation.

One would think a discovery this important should put it on the same level as space/deep sea exploration... we must ask and wonder why no more effort is being put forward to discover or put to rest these encounters...

Exactly, why are you not putting more effort to resolve the matter?

If what you claim is true, then you could easily obtain evidence. Wait, I forgot, you don't want to loose their trust... umhumm...

[Huntster]

That may be so, but do you understand the need that many have for "undeniable", "solid", "compelling", <adjective> evidence in order to invest funds, time, and effort into understanding these creatures and to include them in the taxonomy of known biological creatures on this planet?

Many, or you?

Most, actually, and certainly not me. I believe that sasquatches exist, remember? It's the skeptics, denialists, and scientists that need '"undeniable", "solid", "compelling", <adjective> evidence in order to invest funds, time, and effort into understanding these creatures and to include them in the taxonomy of known biological creatures on this planet.'

Now, even if I believe that sasquatches exist, I don't have to believe every story that comes down the pike.

And I don't.

Some are happy to know they're out there, so maybe dont presume to speak for "everyone" if that's your intent.

I didn't. I asked a question. You did see the question mark, didn't you?

Let's review:

but do you understand the need that many have for "undeniable", "solid", "compelling", <adjective> evidence in order to invest funds, time, and effort into understanding these creatures and to include them in the taxonomy of known biological creatures on this planet?

Let's see if I get an answer from the person I asked.

It's been my feeling for some time that the subject can get so needlessly heated because of people who feel they're "owed" the proof, and these are same people often who get genuinely mad when evidence gets questioned to the point that they call these folks "the enemy".

It's my observation that those who feel they're "owed" proof are the ones questioning all the evidence that gets presented, and pointing out that the evidence is not proof (as if we didn't already know that), and further proclaiming that proof is required before the appropriate authorities actually get involved in the phenomenon.

This really isn't the conflict and noone owes these people anything

Indeed. In fact, it's my contention that some of those folks actually are responsible for obtaining the proof for society, not the other way around.

believe or don't believe, but noone owes you proof.

While nobody owes me proof of anything, I contend that our official wildlife authorities owe us (as a society of taxpayers paying them to manage our wildlife) an initial investigation into the phenomenon.

phony monster (or fairy) stories to entertain myself or others.

That helps...

I'm truly elated that I can help. Whenever I can help you further, don't hesitate to ask.

[Guest Knuck]

First, I would like to apologize to the sincere members of this forum, and this thread in particular for MY contribution to the high-jacking of the thread. MY contribution, was to respond to a question. The thread was already off topic for a little while discussing what kind of camera equipment to buy and use in the field, before I even came along. Admin could have chimed in anytime and the drift would have stopped. People responding to me with sarcastic, uneducated (don't know what you're talking about ref. my activities) remarks isn't keeping it on the OP either smart guy. So back on topic it goes.-Knuck

[Guest]

First, I would like to apologize to the sincere members of this forum, and this thread in particular for MY contribution to the high-jacking of the thread. MY contribution, was to respond to a question. The thread was already off topic for a little while discussing what kind of camera equipment to buy and use in the field, before I even came along. Admin could have chimed in anytime and the drift would have stopped. People responding to me with sarcastic, uneducated (don't know what you're talking about ref. my activities) remarks isn't keeping it on the OP either smart guy. So back on topic it goes.-Knuck

Knuck, you certainly don't owe me (personally) any apology for answering SY's and other member questions. I was following along with great interest. Meaning no disrespect, to the original thread topic, or the topic starter, which was a fine topic also. If continuing this conversation is unacceptable, maybe it could be moved somewhere else on the forum(?)

I'm hoping the conversation doesn't stop, because I'm finally learning something about BF here, from a member that has decided to speak about it, and his experiences. So little of this forum bandwidth, is about things like this.

The continuous theory and speculation threads and arguments , that we yet have no answers for... the never ending cyber sword fights about the hairy ass mud print cast from the meadow, and the 43 yr old film clip that won't go away... just ain't cuttin' it for me, anymore. Finally have something here to read and learn, worth reading and absorbing. Thanks to the few forum members, that have talked about their ongoing experiences here... it is appreciated , and being noted.

Edited March 23, 2011 by imonacan

[Guest fenris]

Well, since we don't seem to need proof of anything, anywhere. How are we going to be able to prove that Sasquath is more widespread than the common black bear?

At the risk of repetition good sir, if they were the mystery of squatchy might not be the mystery it is if ya get my drift.

[Guest fenris]

Most, actually, and certainly not me. I believe that sasquatches exist, remember? It's the skeptics, denialists, and scientists that need '"undeniable", "solid", "compelling", <adjective> evidence in order to invest funds, time, and effort into understanding these creatures and to include them in the taxonomy of known biological creatures on this planet.'

Now, even if I believe that sasquatches exist, I don't have to believe every story that comes down the pike.

And I don't.

I didn't. I asked a question. You did see the question mark, didn't you?

Let's review:

Let's see if I get an answer from the person I asked.

It's my observation that those who feel they're "owed" proof are the ones questioning all the evidence that gets presented, and pointing out that the evidence is not proof (as if we didn't already know that), and further proclaiming that proof is required before the appropriate authorities actually get involved in the phenomenon.

Indeed. In fact, it's my contention that some of those folks actually are responsible for obtaining the proof for society, not the other way around.

While nobody owes me proof of anything, I contend that our official wildlife authorities owe us (as a society of taxpayers paying them to manage our wildlife) an initial investigation into the phenomenon.

I'm truly elated that I can help. Whenever I can help you further, don't hesitate to ask.

Not gonna start a derail over this, I will agree to disagree with you on several points, and my points on those who feel "owed" wasn't actually pointed to you, I was briefly reminded of a recent reaction or two I have gotten for my thoughts on of the more popular bits of evidence, I haven't been shy about them. The fact is though, the segment I refer to could stand to take a breath and calm down because we're still trying years after the PGF and there is nothing to "owed" to anyone.

I'll be the first to admit I can be an ass for demanding a better standard than the run of the mill blob picture or elk lay or what have you, but noone owes me squat for evidence. The flipside being if you make the choice to present some, it's gonna get the looking over. And if some one gets mad about it, that's something I struggle to grasp, because they come off like they take it personally. Again noone owes them squat(ch), but I didn't point that remark at you...

[Huntster]

Not gonna start a derail over this

Too late for that. You already did. And it appears that you will not cease until you get the last word.

I will agree to disagree with you on several points, and my points on those who feel "owed" wasn't actually pointed to you

You did ask, "Many, or you?", didn't you?

Well, I respectfully answered.

The fact is though, the segment I refer to could stand to take a breath and calm down because we're still trying years after the PGF and there is nothing to "owed" to anyone.

I am calm, my breathing regular and light, and my soul at peace. I pray that you're as filled with joy as I am.

I'll be the first to admit I can be an ass for demanding a better standard than the run of the mill blob picture or elk lay or what have you, but noone owes me squat for evidence. The flipside being if you make the choice to present some, it's gonna get the looking over. And if some one gets mad about it, that's something I struggle to grasp, because they come off like they take it personally.

Agreed, however, my question still stands:

There have been many people over the years who have come to forums with stories of repeat encounters. There's no need for everyone to disbelieve their experiences. There's no need for everyone to believe their experiences.

That may be so, but do you understand the need that many have for "undeniable", "solid", "compelling", <adjective> evidence in order to invest funds, time, and effort into understanding these creatures and to include them in the taxonomy of known biological creatures on this planet?

(To answer my own question):

It is repeatedly claimed that proof or <adjective> evidence (as if that hasn't already been provided) is required (not "needed") in order to justify even an initial investigation by our appropriate and duly authorized wildlife management agencies.

Now, I can honestly say that I don't understand that requirement, and don't agree with it, but there it stands, and that has been supported in word on this very forum by a number of people.

And I still wonder if Pramatist understands that or not.