Guest Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 (edited) Norseman, Your title post makes some excellent points about human nature and BF. I don't know that I'd fit into the Americana group, and I certainly don't fit into the animal rights group. I believe in hunting, but I don't hunt all that often. I don't kill anything unless I have a reason. If I have a reason to kill it, then I don't hesitate. I am anti-kill based upon my personal experience. IMO BF is very close to human. Their level of intelligence warrants greater respect. I think they should be treated like people. We should not harm them unless they harm or attempt to harm us. I believe some of the NA tribes had a similar view. BTW, I do not benefit monetarily in any way from BF. WRT PETA or driving a Subaru....No Way. If I discovered a group of Neanderthals living in the isolation of Northwest Canada, I would not support killing one to prove they exist. Edited June 1, 2013 by Florida reader
ThePhaige Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 Mine is a pro find a dead SSq or somehow study alive ones. Not captivity per say, and certainly not kill. I also do not believe in Govt protection for my own reasons and I believe neither do the govt for their own. I am not an environmentalist in the having an agenda sense, but I believe firmly in stewardship and hunting for what is needed not for fun so to speak. Having said that I dont think any of this is a concern really. Unless a real mistake is made (by them) we aren't going to find a dead one or capture one any time soon.
PBeaton Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 norseman, I don't hunt, have friends that do, I don't have the slightest problem with folks huntin'. I'm of the opinion sasquatchs are just another animal, a primate like gorillas or chimps. But I don't think they should be killed either. If I was a hunter, an had a sasquatch in view, I wouldn't give a hot **** bout science, nor anyone else for that matter, I'd be in awe of what I was lookin' at. If someone does bag one...well...be all said an done, I wouldn't have a problem with that. If it's still unproven while I'm kickin' the bucket, I wouldn't have a problem with that either. I hope we can verify the existence of these primates without killin' one. Either way...soon as we do...I figure they'd be better off a myth. Pat...
coffee2go Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 I agree Florida Reader. If all I have heard and read about BF is true as it pertains to something more human than animal, why would you want to kill one? I would think that with advancing technology eventually enough evidence will prove their existence and level of intelligence without shooting one. If there are enough people who feel a BF should be fair game like deer and elk, I imagine there will be little chance those of us who have never seen one will ever get a chance to see one. That's just my opinion, and I also do not fit either of the two categories that you feel I should fit into Norseman.
norseman Posted June 1, 2013 Admin Author Posted June 1, 2013 Norseman, Your title post makes some excellent points about human nature and BF. I don't know that I'd fit into the Americana group, and I certainly don't fit into the animal rights group. I believe in hunting, but I don't hunt all that often. I don't kill anything unless I have a reason. If I have a reason to kill it, then I don't hesitate. I am anti-kill based upon my personal experience. IMO BF is very close to human. Their level of intelligence warrants greater respect. I think they should be treated like people. We should not harm them unless they harm or attempt to harm us. I believe some of the NA tribes had a similar view. BTW, I do not benefit monetarily in any way from BF. WRT PETA or driving a Subaru....No Way. If I discovered a group of Neanderthals living in the isolation of Northwest Canada, I would not support killing one to prove they exist. Would you support an alien biologists right to kill me to prove that humans exist so that the earth is not turned into rubble and hauled off to make a galactic parking lot for the Glarcon galactic space council??? I know what I would say if I were you..............
PBeaton Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 Norseman, Your title post makes some excellent points about human nature and BF. I don't know that I'd fit into the Americana group, and I certainly don't fit into the animal rights group. I believe in hunting, but I don't hunt all that often. I don't kill anything unless I have a reason. If I have a reason to kill it, then I don't hesitate. I am anti-kill based upon my personal experience. IMO BF is very close to human. Their level of intelligence warrants greater respect. I think they should be treated like people. We should not harm them unless they harm or attempt to harm us. I believe some of the NA tribes had a similar view. BTW, I do not benefit monetarily in any way from BF. WRT PETA or driving a Subaru....No Way. If I discovered a group of Neanderthals living in the isolation of Northwest Canada, I would not support killing one to prove they exist. Would you support an alien biologists right to kill me to prove that humans exist so that the earth is not turned into rubble and hauled off to make a galactic parking lot for the Glarcon galactic space council??? I know what I would say if I were you.............. noresman, As a man, I'd stand beside ya ta fight, as a Canadian, I'd have a beer in one hand, my pocket knife in the other(gun restrictions here are a bitch), if...we were ta loose...I'd just hope they'd find you more interestin' ! Pat... 1
Guest Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 Norseman, If your sacrifice would save the Earth, obviously saving the Earth is more important. However, I strongly suspect that our gov't has already encountered BF to include deceased specimens. I don't think any good will come from a person or persons trying to acquire specimens. JMO. Gov'ts and most of the people running them act in their own interests. Would a highly advanced alien culture depend upon individuals acquiring deceased biological specimens in order to spare a less advanced culture? If the advanced culture was willing to deviate from their construction plan IOT save a less advanced culture, they would likely examine the route during early planning. If not, they would likely pave Earth regardless.
norseman Posted June 1, 2013 Admin Author Posted June 1, 2013 Norseman, If your sacrifice would save the Earth, obviously saving the Earth is more important. However, I strongly suspect that our gov't has already encountered BF to include deceased specimens. I don't think any good will come from a person or persons trying to acquire specimens. JMO. Gov'ts and most of the people running them act in their own interests. Would a highly advanced alien culture depend upon individuals acquiring deceased biological specimens in order to spare a less advanced culture? If the advanced culture was willing to deviate from their construction plan IOT save a less advanced culture, they would likely examine the route during early planning. If not, they would likely pave Earth regardless. We are wandering into conspiracy theory ground......... I'll just say that absolutely the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. And I'd be much more comfortable if Squatch's future was in the hands of the USFWS...............and not men in black.
norseman Posted June 1, 2013 Admin Author Posted June 1, 2013 Norseman, Your title post makes some excellent points about human nature and BF. I don't know that I'd fit into the Americana group, and I certainly don't fit into the animal rights group. I believe in hunting, but I don't hunt all that often. I don't kill anything unless I have a reason. If I have a reason to kill it, then I don't hesitate. I am anti-kill based upon my personal experience. IMO BF is very close to human. Their level of intelligence warrants greater respect. I think they should be treated like people. We should not harm them unless they harm or attempt to harm us. I believe some of the NA tribes had a similar view. BTW, I do not benefit monetarily in any way from BF. WRT PETA or driving a Subaru....No Way. If I discovered a group of Neanderthals living in the isolation of Northwest Canada, I would not support killing one to prove they exist. Would you support an alien biologists right to kill me to prove that humans exist so that the earth is not turned into rubble and hauled off to make a galactic parking lot for the Glarcon galactic space council??? I know what I would say if I were you.............. noresman, As a man, I'd stand beside ya ta fight, as a Canadian, I'd have a beer in one hand, my pocket knife in the other(gun restrictions here are a bitch), if...we were ta loose...I'd just hope they'd find you more interestin' ! Pat... Uh huh....... the pocket knife is to stab me in the leg so you can run faster.......... Norseman, I agree with you. OK, so without a type specimen? The USFWS will never be involved with the welfare of Sasquatch. Many in the anti kill camp claim they are doing just fine without human help........OK, can a proponent of this mindset point me in the direction of the Biological survey that supports this claim? Or is it just conjecture? There in lies the problem with the species remaining a myth..........not only can we not bring any conservation tools to bear if a problem does exist? We cannot even measure and research IF there is a problem at all...........
daveedoe Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 Isn't part of americana about free enterprise? Why not make a buck if you can on a myth or a real creature. If you do kill a bigfoot for science will you profit from it? Easy money with all the TV interviews. You could even chage your name to Moneymaker. LOL. I believe for most people who are no kill its just a personal thing. Look at my avitar, if that creature on the right was bigfoot I could not kill it same goes for the one on the left, it looks to much like my old dog. No other reason.
norseman Posted June 1, 2013 Admin Author Posted June 1, 2013 Isn't part of americana about free enterprise? Why not make a buck if you can on a myth or a real creature. If you do kill a bigfoot for science will you profit from it? Easy money with all the TV interviews. You could even chage your name to Moneymaker. LOL. I believe for most people who are no kill its just a personal thing. Look at my avitar, if that creature on the right was bigfoot I could not kill it same goes for the one on the left, it looks to much like my old dog. No other reason. Absolutely Amiericana is about free enterprise. And I very much believe in the Roman term "Caveat Emptor". I'm not judging people as much as trying to understand them........... I'm sure if Project Grendel takes down a type specimen there will be money involved...........yes. But there is a difference there. In one case the "goods" are being delivered and in the other case it's just a snake oil salesman.............. I would take my earnings and setup some sort of conservancy fund for them. Your last statement is basically saying your a animal rights/lover type person?
Guest Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 The only thing they need is good land left for them. What would the USFWS (assuming they could help) do for them beyond setting aside habitat? The GOV'T would use the discovery to get $ for research and jobs. Researchers would want to have samples to study. They would also want to document all aspects of the new species. Do you think BF wants or needs either? Are the Nez Perce happier or better off after management by The USGOV?
norseman Posted June 1, 2013 Admin Author Posted June 1, 2013 The only thing they need is good land left for them. What would the USFWS (assuming they could help) do for them beyond setting aside habitat? The GOV'T would use the discovery to get $ for research and jobs. Researchers would want to have samples to study. They would also want to document all aspects of the new species. Do you think BF wants or needs either? Are the Nez Perce happier or better off after management by The USGOV? Here is the USFWS Grizzly bear conservancy PDF file: http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/Final_Conservation_Strategy.pdf We have no idea what BF "needs"............do we? That would take science............science is not on board. LMAO! The Nez Perce or any American Indian tribe certainly has a lot of grievances with the American government.........no doubt. But being raised right next to the Colville Indian Reservation I can say with certainty that if you tried to take away their Ipods, cell phones, TV remotes, automobiles, medical care, Ribeye steaks, beer, football and all the rest of modern accouterments and tried to shove them back into a teepee? They would not be very happy...............no. Nor would the rest of the American population whether they be Irish American, African American, whatever. So I guess I would state without a doubt.............that yes they are "better off" under the management of the Federal Gov. But they also have many grievances about how that process happened. But of course.............the Nez Perce are not animals.............they are humans. So your analogy is a poor one. I suggest you read that Griz pamphlet I linked to to see all of what is being done concerning a large omnivore that is endangered.
bipedalist Posted June 1, 2013 BFF Patron Posted June 1, 2013 (edited) I think to dichotomize camps into purebred American (pick your nationality) mountain men vs. Subaru driving nimby vegetarians is inaccurate. There are many conservationists out there...... some hunters, some not, some real American cowboy Patriots, some inveterate laissez fair progressives. The complexity of Sasquatch to me is they are a true American enigma (a N. American one for sure). Could they be endangered? Sure? Is it likely? I think not. To me, not killing one has more to do with my personal experiences with a sighting and subsequent followup. I put them into a higher intelligence category than a meat-rack elk but that is just me. If you are going about this search and kill as a public service I'm confused about how you plan on translating your kill into science. What is your plan? Are the details in the early part of "the kill thread" (got my threads confused)? Just asking? Edited June 1, 2013 by bipedalist
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