Bigfoot And Americana

[Guest]

*Edit* dude... good luck. xD 
I'm undecided on the kill issue, but the idea of angering a family of Sasquatches is nightmarish.

Edited June 4, 2013 by BigGinger
Adult Language

[Ike]

 

What I don't understand, is that neither you nor any other posting I have read ever states that you wish to start a bigfoot hunting season. Invariably, it seems to me that every post about taking a specimen somehow translates into peoples minds that there is going to be a big push by hundreds if not thousands of people to hit the woods to gun one down for sport. I suppose in some ways this plays into your original inquiry.

 

Why do people make this leap? My guess is within the BF community it is largely driven by bandwagon hopping. Without trying to pry into politics, I think many in today's society have been brainwashed for lack of better term, into the philosophy that mankind is inherently, if not wantonly evil and destructive to the environment and an unnatural part of it.

 

Well sure, we are a culture of stereotypes.......I'll openly admit that. So if we prove one exists then every redneck on the planet is going to be out trying to kill it........it's not logical, but a understandable mindset. If Sasquatch is real? Sasquatch and Redneckus Gunpackerius occupy the same habitat currently and at some point the two species are going to bump into each other and possibly have violent outcomes of said encounter.

 

I as a pro kill advocate am not promoting a Sasquatch hunting season..........anywhere. But instead protection of the species upon recognition.

 

Oh, I know you're not proposing a hunting season...that's why I made that comment. As for the two crossing paths in the wilds, I really don't see that as much of a problem. It can and supposedly has, but were it common enough to be of concern, we wouldn't even be having this conversation

I am guessing that somewhere in the last fifty years the GOVT has acquired deceased BF bodies. Whether through natural causes or a hunter or a Mack truck it most likely happened. What do we see officially, nada. So, I don't think killing another will do any good. JMO.

I think the objective is to do it and have a reveal so quick and public that there is no way for government entities to weasel out and hide it.

 

 

Does it really have to be so extreme as to be an " animal rights type " though ?

 

I've always had those sort of people down to be a bit wacko, someone who would tie themselves to a fence naked at a Pig farm or something crazy like that, a bit extreme.

 

 

 

 

 

Misconception. Those folks arent animal rights activists. Those folks are PETA types. PETA is not an animal rights group. PETA is a topic-specific media organization who has no goals other than to bring attention to themselves, rather than to what they report. They have no animal rights in mind. No organization who spends their time, money, and resources on trying to change the word "fish" to "sea kitten" while doing nothing to stop Shark finning in the Tropical Pacific and off Central America, the whaling taking place in the Southern Ocean and the North Atlantic, the Dolphin slaughter in Japan and the North Atlantic, the Seal slaughter in Canada, and the Rattlesnake slaughter in the southern USA, is a legitimate animal rights organization. It's a shame that most people see any animal rights activism as being equivalent to what PETA does.

(Sorry for the derail, but I consider myself a supporter of animal welfare and to an extent, animal rights, and I hate being associated with PETA by everyone I talk to about it )

 

 

 

Amen, and Ike, who is your message directed at........? 

 

Predominantly Norseman, but it is more of a rhetorical reflection based on my perceptions.

[norseman]

*Edit* dude... good luck. xD 

I'm undecided on the kill issue, but the idea of angering a family of Sasquatches is nightmarish.

 

I think they should be given respect...........but I don't think they are a group of super killers.

Edited June 4, 2013 by BigGinger
To Edit Adult Language in Quoted Content

[Guest]

Norseman, despite the fact that I believe you are in the wrong, I feel obligated to warn you. I believe ForestTone is quite possibly correct. In my experience BF are rarely alone. We rarely see them, and even more rarely do we see more than one at once. If you go alone, my only advice is have your final affairs in order first. If you take a group, you need people capable of facing death without running. Although, IMO the squatch will merely move away when the see a group of armed men. Daylight Ops are highly recommended. Not even NVGs will level the playing field at night. Your hostility will turn them into the stuff of nightmares. JMO.

[Guest DWA]

 

The very fact that you could suggest they might petition the USFS to block a clear cut suggests you miss the big picture.   The main reason I do not want their existence proven is because they will become a tool, a lever, for the environmentalist whackos trying to lock up public lands. 

 

MIB

 

THAT'S THE BEST REASON; THAT IS THE BIG PICTURE.

 

Not to get embroiled in something tangential to the topic.  But when land isn't locked up is when it truly IS.  You get stolen from twice.  First is the NO TRESPASSING sign.  Second is what they charge for the stuff they make on what was your land.

 

Any discussion of sasquatch without discussing the expansion of public land for habitat is whistling past the graveyard - ours in the long term; the sasquatch's in the short term.

[WSA]

Norse, even though I am very much an agnostic on the kill/no kill debate (In other words, I wouldn't want to do it, but I'm going to be really excited if somebody does) I do think about the no-kill camp's position in an historic context. They view it as the killing of an idealized pre-fall version of ourselves. To them, I think, man is  corrupt..but, there is still hope for BF. When you talk about killing a BF you merely highlight for them two points: 1. Mankind (and especially white males of Eurpoean ancestry) destroys what it doesn't understand, and; 2. We were once all much purer and Sasquatch-like, and killing one only highlights how far we've fallen.  

 

From the very point of European discovery of the N. American  continent this debate ahs been going on, up until the relatively recent epoch where the matter has been made effectively moot. I'm not addressing Sasquatch, but the N. American Indian. Killing some Rousseauean version of our purer self has never rested easy with us, and for every extreme view of those like  W.T. Sherman ("The only good Indian I ever saw was dead...") there were those who found the genocide abhorrent. Which is to say, for many of my fellow countrymen from that time, genocide was a perfectly acceptable policy to pursue. We live with that still.

 

So now we bring that debate forward. Same-same, really. Some have gone so far as to say the "belief" in Sasquatch is merely a manifestation of white guilt over the rubbing-out of the natives we found here. You know, a chance to get it right. They say, if there is redemption for us in this world, it is only through restraint and understanding. These poles are always going to be in tension. Our history bears that out.      

[Guest]

Madison,

I very much agree.

Norseman,

Based upon my personal experience, IMO BF are not like bears or other animals. They are smart enough to recognize boundaries and modify their behavior so it does not anger people. They are not dumb animals.

 

Would you consider goats to be dumb animals?  They do the same thing - it's called classical conditioning.  My goats are not fenced in.  They have learned what part of the property they are allowed to roam, and what part they are not. 

 

EDIT:  And from what you said just above - why should they care about angering people?  Sounds like we should be more concerned with angering them.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Nod4Eight

[norseman]

speaking to the proponents of bigfoot army.

assuming the albert ostman story is true..,. what happened when he made his escape?

[MIB]

Could you clarify the question a little?   I'm not sure which of a bunch of different questions you might be asking.

[norseman]

specifically after he fed the old man copenhagen? and three squatch remained to guard his escape route? what happened?

was he systematically hunted down and ripped apart? or?

[Guest]

Nod4Eight,

There is a world of difference between what a few guys can do versus the human machinery of war. There is no doubt in my mind that humanity could kill many of them is we tried. However, we are dealing with something far better attuned to living in the wild. They have far superior senses and they can usually avoid humans at their discretion. Therefore, they could largely choose when and if they wanted to engage humans. A lone person or small group of humans that attacked BF would be vulnerable if the BF chose to fight (jmo). The human war machine, of course, would destroy all who opposed it.

As for goats, they are domesticated livestock. In many respects they are dependent upon humans for food, water and protection. BF needs nothing from us. They are also capable of moving around at night largely undetected. They could take my livestock if they chose. They could break into our houses if they chose, but they are smart enough to avoid conflict with humans. Why? Because we destroy the woods or swamps where they can live.

Norseman,

Regarding Ostman, you read the story, he fired a warning shot over Mom's head and she backed off. The others were kids. Also remember that Dad was just sick at the time. He may have died later. Ostman used his brain. He knew the old man was the real problem. Imagine if Ostman had shot Mom before Dad was sick, or if he'd shot Dad before he was sick. He would have had one shot to hit Dad's brain pan or adios. I'm guessing that if you kill one the situation will be very different. You are trying to prove something to the world, and they will be fighting for survival.

WSA,

My anti-kill position is simple. I know they have been around my house for years, but they have not hurt anyone. They are the closest things to us on the planet. They are intelligent and they deserve our respect.

[norseman]

^^^^^

No i think the situation will be the same. There is fight in the old bull to be sure but the rest? No.

Any how the story doesnt support the bigfoot army theory. We are talking about family units here and not roving bands of aggressive males all looking for a human to devour.

[Guest]

I think you are correct about the family units. However, I think you overlooking how Mom will act once you make clear your intention to kill. Ask any woman if she'd fight for her children. If junior is an adolescent, makes a mistake and shows himself, you get him. Now there are two adults coming for you and you don't know where they are.

You really think there hasn't been a body recovered to date?

[Guest DWA]

And such is the problem that has attended confirmation of every dangerous animal.  Think it wasn't so for chimps/gorillas/lions/etc?

 

This is no different.

[Guest]

The "don't mess with mama bear"sayings didn't come about for no reason. I once witnessed a doe literally beat the stuffings out of a dog (hound type) almost her equal in size. I knew she had fawns down in the ravine in the woods behind our house. The dog must have gotten too curious much to his downfall. I watched her run out of the woods, keeping pace with him right under her body. every few feet she would stop and pound him with her front hooves, which allowed him to get out from under her....briefly. She would catch back up with him and repeat....all the way across the field. she didn't let up when they reached the pavement and continued down the hill and out of sight....the dog howling and screaming pitifully. I bet the dog thought a devil had gotten a hold of him because she tore him up!

As Florida reader said, human "mama bears" can go equally berserk. So it wouldn't really matter if you think of BF as almost human or animal....annoying mom could most definitely be detrimental to your health. And I do believe dad will probably be close by also. In that "nightmarish scenario" as already expressed....it wouldn't take an army of BF to be your undoing. The family unit should suffice quite nicely. Just my thoughts....though I admit I am pretty anti-kill too.