Guest Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Alright! Ninja magic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MAN OF THE WOODS Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 The first .45ACP(1909)...NO NEVER!,end of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Forbig Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 As far as I know, the investigation sits in limbo unless the BFRO never made their findings public. It must of come to a dead end or I'm sure there would have been more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I was in bootcamp at the time of this crash.I was raised in Iowa,but didnt want to go to Cali.& be a "HollyWood"Marine. They had a rep.of being soft,so i moved 3 days after grad.to Beaufort,SC.lived there 90 days got recruited & went to Parris Island. Alot of the talk at that time was it a staged operation.I used the .45 in service for 4yrs.& carry one now on a daily basis & can tell you i have NEVER had a .45 jam.& NEVER heard of one doing so.We always loaded "Hot"full clip & chamber loaded as well. You ALWAYS "Geared up" when in flight,meaning EVERYONE would of had a MAGLIGHT.ECT...things dont add up from a military point of view. The thing that jumped out me glaringly... He said that they reloaded with a fresh "clip"... I actually cringed a bit when I read that. A common mistake in nomenclature for a civilian/ someone unfamiliar with this handgun, but anyone with military level training would surely call it by its correct name ? magazine or mag ?? I understand that as part of the investigation they verified his military service.. but it still left me .... Oh, and I've been shooting 1911's since I was a kid (im now 39), and I (personally) have never had one jam or stove-pipe or misfire- with the exception of a few dud rounds here and there (old ammo that had gotten damp apparently)- but that's no fault of the weapon. That's my experience- your mileage may vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudasBeast Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I was in bootcamp at the time of this crash.I was raised in Iowa,but didn't want to go to Cali.& be a "HollyWood"Marine. They had a rep.of being soft,so i moved 3 days after grad.to Beaufort,SC.lived there 90 days got recruited & went to Parris Island. Alot of the talk at that time was it a staged operation.I used the .45 in service for 4yrs.& carry one now on a daily basis & can tell you i have NEVER had a .45 jam.& NEVER heard of one doing so.We always loaded "Hot"full clip & chamber loaded as well. You ALWAYS "Geared up" when in flight,meaning EVERYONE would of had a MAGLIGHT.ECT...things dont add up from a military point of view. Thank you for commenting. Man Of the woods,you said "I was in bootcamp at the time of this crash".Does that mean you were familiar with the crash or are you saying that the crash was the same year you were active? If familiar please explain? Thank You. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Hey Art - That's my experience- your military may vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) There is no error with regards to the magazines. Yes, they were likely 7 round mags, but it was addressed if I'm not mistaken. Most soldiers and sailors with the 1911 as a sidearm would load 6 rounds vice the max 7 to minimize the chance of a jam. I know this because I'm retired Navy and I own a 1911 and I also always load 1 round shy of the max for that very reason. Military issue mags were not top of the line equipment and yes, they could jam, especially when the magazine is fully loaded. Our shipboard armed roving patrols would always be issued a 1911 with 6 rounds in the mag. Never 7. I know this because I stood watch as Officer of the Deck and had to inspect their sidearms and count their rounds when there was a shift change. Mojo.... Edited March 13, 2011 by Mojo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tracker Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I thinking along same lines as old dog, no fire with avia fuel ? Sure ok maybe it was raining and there was no spark or electrical fire? But where's the combat training SOP's that even the MP's receive? Where's the sentries? The sarge drops the only flashlight they have & stand side by side and fire blindly into the dark. They all empty their mags at the same time at mysterious visiters. What no grenades or air strikes ? comeon. If they did that they wouldn't be an MP's for long. Either you would be kicked out or KIA. One trained soldier/merc with some balls could drop to prone and take them all out without getting a scratch if you engage as stupidly as that. So maybe the big guys did show up for the BBQ? and then a wild west show broke out. Interesting but I won't be buying the vid. JMO tracker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MAN OF THE WOODS Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 As far as the term"clip or Mag" it never mattered. I was in boot at that time & heard the normal rumors Of the crash being a planed training maneuver & alttle twist was put on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knuck Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 All it takes to "create" a malfunction/jam in a semi-auto handgun is a less than firm grip upon firing the weapon. Other than that, the story sounds wholly manufactured. Even if there really is documented evidence that in fact the specific cobra crashed, and the pilot and gunner were killed, the rest is BS. While an MP at Fort Bragg, we had a rotating assignment on a team, made up of different units, (depending on the incident) that would deploy to various incidents for security purposes. Military aircraft crashes/ forced landings on public and private land were included in this. The OIC of the rather small team was ALWAYS present. He/she NEVER went back to the base without the team. Never, ever was the NCOIC left in charge on site. Replacing/carrying personal rounds to replace the standard ball ammo in your issued weapon would be at least an Article 15 offense. Unless national security was at risk, firing weapons would be the VERY LAST resort at an off-post site. Other factors raise big red flags. JMEO-Knuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Forbig Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 All it takes to "create" a malfunction/jam in a semi-auto handgun is a less than firm grip upon firing the weapon. Other than that, the story sounds wholly manufactured. Even if there really is documented evidence that in fact the specific cobra crashed, and the pilot and gunner were killed, the rest is BS. While an MP at Fort Bragg, we had a rotating assignment on a team, made up of different units, (depending on the incident) that would deploy to various incidents for security purposes. Military aircraft crashes/ forced landings on public and private land were included in this. The OIC of the rather small team was ALWAYS present. He/she NEVER went back to the base without the team. Never, ever was the NCOIC left in charge on site. Replacing/carrying personal rounds to replace the standard ball ammo in your issued weapon would be at least an Article 15 offense. Unless national security was at risk, firing weapons would be the VERY LAST resort at an off-post site. Other factors raise big red flags. JMEO-Knuck That's a shame it has to be why they dropped that case and we didn't hear much more about it. I have to agree there's far too many red flags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MAN OF THE WOODS Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I just spoke with a old friend that was at Ft.Benning at the time of the "crash".He wants this to be presented as a "theory" only for certain reasons. What if the Cobra was a gutted ship for training purposess & dropped in place by a CH-47? That would explain the lack of a huge fuel ect...these operataions Take place in all branches of the military. Im sorry,but i have to say this BS!! We were NEVER trained to go in hot with 6 rounds! That sounds more like a personal choice.BS!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I just spoke with a old friend that was at Ft.Benning at the time of the "crash".He wants this to be presented as a "theory" only for certain reasons. What if the Cobra was a gutted ship for training purposess & dropped in place by a CH-47? That would explain the lack of a huge fuel ect...these operataions Take place in all branches of the military. Im sorry,but i have to say this BS!! We were NEVER trained to go in hot with 6 rounds! That sounds more like a personal choice.BS!!!! This is the best "theory" I've heard yet! Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bipedalist Posted March 13, 2011 BFF Patron Share Posted March 13, 2011 I just spoke with a old friend that was at Ft.Benning at the time of the "crash".He wants this to be presented as a "theory" only for certain reasons. What if the Cobra was a gutted ship for training purposess & dropped in place by a CH-47? That would explain the lack of a huge fuel ect...these operataions Take place in all branches of the military. Im sorry,but i have to say this BS!! We were NEVER trained to go in hot with 6 rounds! That sounds more like a personal choice.BS!!!! That theory prob. would not work, as the date of the alleged incident was also the day or very close to the day obituaries were posted for two Texas Air National guard cobra crew as I remember. They were documented in both newspapers and military news as I remember. We had a discussion about this once in chat one night with one of the BFRO personnel that was attempting to gain further info. as to the squad members in the MP unit. The BF part of it could be suspect but the crash with two fatalities itself apparently is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bipedalist Posted March 13, 2011 BFF Patron Share Posted March 13, 2011 2 National Guard pilots die in helicopter crash Date: September 16, 1985 Publication: The Atlanta Journal and The Atlanta Constitution Page Number: A/14 Word Count: 476 U.S. Army officials were in North Georgia Sunday night to investigate the morning crash of a Cobra Helicopter gunship that killed Cmdr. Kevin M. Cardwell, 23, a grocery store assistant manager in Round Rock, Texas, and co-pilot 1st Lt. Michael L. Pape, 27, a construction worker from Killeen, Texas, two Texas Army National Guard pilots on a training flight with the U.S. Army's Ranger School. The men were killed when their Cobra crashed into trees in the Chattahoochee National Forest (...more, if you pay money) The Atlanta Journal-Constitution (news) http://nl.newsbank.c...ist&p_topdoc=51 Unit History: 49TH ARMORED DIVISION: In 1973 the units scattered to the separate brigades were reunited in the 1/124, headquartered in Waco. The 3d Battalion 143d Infantry (Airborne) was redesignated as 1/124 Armored Cavalry, retaining the lineage of the 124th Cavalry. So at the time they were headquartered in Waco, TX. These witnesses will be among the 70 members that were flown to GA that weekend for tactical training. One of our members in chat that night uncovered these links above. Also this one: http://www.armyaircrews.com/cobra.html scroll down to middle of page 9 sep 1985 cobra described as crashing and burning again http://www.armyaircrews.com/images/news/090985_ah1.gif http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_article.asp?id=510 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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