N A W A C - Field Study Discussion

[Guest Urkelbot]

Is it just utter incompetence then. The alleged animals are purposefully messing with your group repeatedly over multiple years. Not only can one not be shot but no pictures or DNA have been brought foward yet. These aren't just chance encounters in the middle of nowhere. They are coming to your camp on a regular basis except magically when the cameras are on.

Drew, I am sure losts of guys really like to burn all their vacation time away from family to pull of an ongoing hoax for years to their close friends.. Yeah that makes a lot of sense

Vacations helped paid for through donations and tax deductions.

[Guest]

Is it just utter incompetence then. The alleged animals are purposefully messing with your group repeatedly over multiple years. Not only can one not be shot but no pictures or DNA have been brought foward yet. These aren't just chance encounters in the middle of nowhere. They are coming to your camp on a regular basis except magically when the cameras are on.

 

Well, at least we agree it's apes and not humans.

 

 

Vacations helped paid for through donations and tax deductions.

 

This again. The tax benefits of being in the group are vastly outweighed by both tangible and intangible costs. It's a pittance. Truely. 

[Cotter]

^Tax benefits.

I'm thinking that those that think there's money to be made through tax exemption have never been involved in a tax exempt entity the size of Bipto's group.

[dmaker]

Well, at least we agree it's apes and not humans.

 

 

 

This again. The tax benefits of being in the group are vastly outweighed by both tangible and intangible costs. It's a pittance. Truely. 

Do you receive much in donations? Including both funds and equipment?

[Painthorse]

Bipto over the years has it ever been noticed by the group a "decrease" in local wildlife population at X?  If yes, was it noticed that there was a decrease in w/a activity?   (on a side note, sorry about the underline, I'm on a new laptop and can't figure out how to get rid of it, lol)

[Gotta Know]

Yeah, but you sort of did anyway now didn't you?

 

But I am asking in the hypothetical, and for the benefit of this thread, so that this does not turn into an argument about existence. So, assuming that bigfeets are real and are as aggressive as many of the reports indicate......I suppose that should have prefaced my question to Bipto?  

You'd acknowledged in another thread some time ago that this term is intentionally offensive to this reader base and that you'd stop. Why the constant digs, man? Can't you make your never ending point that the big fella doesn't exist and that anyone who thinks otherwise is below your contempt without being so rude? Give it a try.

[dmaker]

I don't recall acknowledging that GK. I have also asked others to stop using Sassy, but I still see that around.  I think you are exaggerating quite a bit when you say bigfeets as an expression is rude.  

 

I think I will continue to use it, thanks for your input though.

Edited January 24, 2014 by dmaker

[Guest]

It would be much easier to hoax, if you knew the shooter was intentionally missing.

Of course it would be. However, considering almost everyone in X is armed, you're talking about ensuring that that the hoaxers are *only* seen by the moles and not by a investigator trying to collect a specimen. The margin for error would be insane. I would never trust someone with my life that way, hoping they kept other members away while only taking pot shots at me.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. We're either telling the truth or we're lying. There is no in between.

This. I said it before I joined the group, and now having been in X and involved in the NAWAC for over a year, the idea that we are being hoaxed is about as absurd as the psychic transdimensional alien sasquatch theory. Is it possible? Yeah, I suppose it is. If maybe half the NAWAC was moles, and there are maybe 5-10 dedicated ape-suit wearing humans willing to risk their life for the hoax, funded by a billionaire playboy hell bent on convincing the other half of the NAWAC that wood apes are real. Why would they do this? Who knows. But it's also possible that wood apes are actually aliens. After all alien life is bound to exist on the trillions upon trillions of planets in the universe. Assuming one such species figured out how to warp and bend space time, they could be traveling here to watch us evolve - or blow ourselves up. That's possible too.

Both of those theories are so unlikely as to not bother with though.

No Wood Ape, No Hoaxing, what is left?

Lies. Lying is extremely common in humans and has been documented for thousands of years. Humans are also inherently lazy to conserve energy. It makes a lot more sense that NAWAC members are lying, rather than the aforementioned elite team of super athletes in costumes able to stay on site for over 10,000+ hours now. Lying is a much, much simpler explanation. And considering we don't have any hard evidence yet, I wouldn't hold it against anyone who thinks that's what happening.

Vacations helped paid for through donations and tax deductions.

LOL!  Even if our incomes were taxed at highest rate up at/over 30%, you're talking about creating a non-profit group for making "vacationing" to a primitive cabin in hot, humid, tick-infested jungle a few hundred bucks cheaper. And rather than vacationing with your best friends, we open it up to new people. Instead of operating it quietly so the fed doesn't take us down, we tell everybody about it - including regular presentations at expos, fairs, schools, and conferences.

The bottom line is that no one winds up financially ahead by being a part of this group.

Do you receive much in donations? Including both funds and equipment?

No, we don't. Almost all of the money and equipment comes from funding within the group via membership dues or donations from group members for special projects. The conference generates a little revenue, but after you take into account the cost of the conference, it isn't much. Calculate the hundreds of donated man-hours and associated and the conference is definitely a loss.

Edited January 24, 2014 by ShadoAngel

[WSA]

You answer your own question WSA......Obviously a witness that says "If it had wanted to, it could have killed me in an instant". ....didn't witness any violent actions, and made a report.  I don't believe there would be ANY report from anyone who DID experience violent actions because we would never hear from them again.  The one that wants to kill you .......can.   And there won't be any report.  Just a missing person report.  After reading "Missing 411", I did some research on missing persons in my home state of Washington and came up with many curious disappearances of people.    

 

  If you want to research, here's a couple - google  Archer Johnson missing April 1, 1986   and Gil Gilman missing June 24, 2006

 

Both men had special skill-sets that should have prevented them from disappearing into the forest, but that's exactly what happened.  Too many of these incidents happen to write off to bad luck.  Archer Johnson's truck was found half in the road, with his door open and a full, opened can of beer on the seat.  His bandana was found nearby but not another trace since.  He worked in the forest his whole life and was coming from work when he disappeared.  How did he just walk off a road and disappear?  Maybe the whole road-crossing thing is just bait for an abduction?  One squatch runs across the road while 4 others wait on the other side.....if the unlucky witness is brave enough to stop and investigate  BOOM!  he gets bull-rushed and that's the last of him.

Gil Gilman was an army vet, had boots on the ground in Baghdad and all over the world and came home with 2 bronze stars.  He spoke 4 languages and was probably a genius.  How could this man have disappeared on a day hike in Olympic National park?  

None of this is conjecture, these are all facts. 

Fair enough point, and I don't pretend to know. I do think though, if you accept the predatory tendencies of a BF, we have to attribute them with super-predator status as we don't have any accounts of somebody who was the intended victim of an earnest attempt, and who escaped. (Putting aside the many, many accounts of bluff charges, shadowing, intimidation displays, etc.) That would put them in a category of predators that has yet to be documented in the animal kingdom, and I think it is helpful to acknowledge that. Even the most efficient known predators on earth don't have a kill ratio even approaching that.  You also have to concede, the human is not exactly easy prey, especially the kinds of men you describe.   

Edited January 24, 2014 by WSA

[Squatchy McSquatch]

"I've said it before and I'll say it again. We're either telling the truth or we're lying. There is no in between."

 

 

Well since you put it that way I'll have to go with lying. There is no in between,

 

'Wood Ape' or not, I literally pray that no hikers or hoaxers are shot by your crew.

 

It is an untenable notion that your group would discharge firearms within proximity to hiking trails.

 

 

[WSA]

Something else Skookum Chuck...the human animal is also unique in our tendency for amazingly inventive ways to self-destruct. Any person who disappears in a wilderness area, once misadventure has been rule out (and that is very hard in and of itself) suicide must always be considered as a possible explanation. There are a high percentage of people who kill themselves each year in this world who gave no prior indication that they were at risk. I've experienced that tragedy in my life, as my chosen profession seems to select for those with that bent to a disproportionate degree. With some, you just never see it coming.

Squatchy, then there is a whole lot of untenable activity going on out there, every year around this time. The idea of people with firearms sharing the woods with you is something you've got to live with if you want to be in the outdoors much. My fear of being misidentified as a Sasquatch and getting plugged, is about on a par with being misidentifed as a species of game. Not to say it is trivial, but it is incumbent on me to realize those dangers and take reasonable precautions, and those doing the shooting have a corresponding duty to identify their targets and use safe firearm practices.  We have no other option,if we want to share the woods. What the NAWAC is doing is not different, except my take-away is their rules of engagement far surpass those of the typical hunter, and to boot, they have organizational penalties and sanctions to enforce those.

 

Next straw man...!

Edited January 24, 2014 by WSA

[Guest]

^Tax benefits.

I'm thinking that those that think there's money to be made through tax exemption have never been involved in a tax exempt entity the size of Bipto's group.

 

All it can do is lower your taxable income (and even then, it's not a dollar for dollar thing). It's not like the government is reimbursing our gas money. It's silly to look at the scale of our operation and the fact that some people spend literally weeks and months on end down there (not counting all the other time and energy they spend doing other work for the group) and think that profit is a motive. Tax benefits are the farthest thing from anyone's mind and are practically never discussed by those in the NAWAC.

Do you receive much in donations? Including both funds and equipment?

 

We have our annual membership dues, whatever money is raised through our semi-annual conference (which is either a nominal amount or break-even), and some donations of equipment to the organization from members. Most guys bring their own gear and take it back out with them again when they leave. That's not eligible for tax benefits. The majority of our gear is purchased by the group using group finds. 

Bipto over the years has it ever been noticed by the group a "decrease" in local wildlife population at X? 

 

Not that I'm aware of. There seems to be a consistent population of other wildlife there. 

What the NAWAC is doing is not different, except my take-away is their rules of engagement far surpass those of the typical hunter, and to boot, they have organizational penalties and sanctions to enforce those.

 

If there was regular foot traffic of non-involved people though the area, we would be operating differently. We've not explored operations in other areas of the country specifically because they were too difficult to control for outside involvement. Our SOP with regard to firearms has been refined for the purpose of protecting ourselves and others. 

If someone feels like creeping up through the bush at night towards an inhabited structure (especially in that part of the country), it makes no difference if the people they're sneaking up on are looking for bigfoot or not. That lurker is very likely to be looking down the barrel of a firearm (and that's the best-case scenario). 

[Guest Urkelbot]

I don't see where it was suggested profit was a motive.  As it stands it looks like a bunch of friends camping in the woods and having a good time.  Some of the bill is covered by donations and tax deductions something most can't do when they go camping with friends.  Its a good excuse to get away from the family and have fun in the woods some guys in the group might want to keep the game going a little longer. 

 

But surely you'll bring in the squatch this year or next year or during the next re-branding with Operation Intrepid Land Primate or whatever.

[Cotter]

 

It is an untenable notion that your group would discharge firearms within proximity to hiking trails.

 

Have you ever hunted or handled a firearm Squatchy?

 

Millions of hunters annually do exactly what you find untenable.  Many hunt directly FROM hiking trails.

[Guest DWA]

I recently read a blog by a SoCal backpacker who rounded a trail bend to find that two sharpshooters had set up targets IN THE TRAIL with misses heading right for anyone rounding that bend.

 

Untenable.