N A W A C - Field Study Discussion

[Terry]

They know our intentions and are willing to interact with those who respect them.   Honesty is paramount.   Deception has no place at the table.  They are far more intelligent than we are.  And much more intuitive.   Can't fool them. 

Do you speak with authority?  How do you know all this?

[Guest]

They are far more intelligent than we are.  And much more intuitive.   Can't fool them. 

 

No they aren't. And they can be fooled. 

[Guest DWA]

Firewood is nothing like forest wood. It's usually dense, cut to a uniform size and heft, and is dry and resonant. Random wood found on the forest floor is wet or rotting and can't be used as well to knock on a tree.

 

As to the provenance of tree knocks, this is kind of underappreciated.  There is no sound quite like the one made by something - with hands - hitting a resonant piece of wood with another resonant piece of wood.  It's just not going to happen in virtually any other conceivable forest situation. 

 

I'm pretty sure that these animals, if they are indeed doing this which evidence seems to indicate, do just what chimps do, which is carry good tools around with them (or leave them in places they can find them), and memorize the best places on their territories to use them.  Nothing about this is out of line with what we see in known apes.  (Or woodpeckers, for that matter.  They also know the resonant trees - and downspouts, as some harried homeowners can attest - on their territories.)

 

As to why they'd use wood to signal rather than vocalize, you'll need to direct that question to them. 

 

Well, why would Indians use smoke signals?  Why would we use semaphore flags?  Why would Mike, the chimp, toss empty petrol cans around rather than just yell his head off?  There are reasons.  We just won't know them until we confirm the animal and start learning more about it.

[Guest]

...(or leave them in places they can find them), and memorize the best places on their territories to use them.

Personally, I think this is what's likely. There are very few reports of them carrying sticks or clubs in the record and we've found pieces of our firewood in places it should not be, often near where we've heard knocks. Circumstantially, that suggests to me that they leave them next to where they want to use them.

[Guest Skunkapetracker]

They know our intentions and are willing to interact with those who respect them.   Honesty is paramount.   Deception has no place at the table.  They are far more intelligent than we are.  And much more intuitive.   Can't fool them. 

They are definitely intelligent and intuitive, but not more so than we are. If that were the case we would not be at the top of the food chain.  

 

So I am going to go ahead and make a slightly smaller assumption than you just did and assume that by "we are," you mean "I am."

 

They are super well adapted to surviving in their environments. Being able to avoid potentially threatening animals would be a useful evolutionary trait to a creature like that.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Skunkapetracker

[the parkie]

We've employed a variety of approaches but the one that seems to work best, at least IMO, is being as non-aggressive as possible. It seems as though at least some of their activities are intended to get a response from us. If we don't respond, they'll often ratchet up the behavior. If we do, they retreat and (presumably) observe. We want them to come as close as possible, so the "I'm not listening to you" tactics seem to work best for that.

Hi Bipto

Hope you're feeling well again. Are you able to be more specific with regards to what behaviour they often ratchet up?

Also, when you discover your firewood at points in the surrounding forest, do you as a group collect it and return it to where it was presumably taken from? Do you cache firewood at a single location? Have you noticed firewood placed predominantly near specific types of trees or near to where foliage may have been manipulated by them?

Lastly, are you favouring a particular specific setup with regards to your new thermals and any other equipment? Placing the hot tub near the heated towel rail obviously goes without saying!

Thanks a lot.

Edited April 20, 2014 by the parkie

[Guest]

If you ignore them, they'll come closer. This is how we've had sightings of them very close to our camp. Also, they'll chuck more rocks at you and even seem to move less stealthily.

WRT to the firewood, it's all cached at a single location. This year, we'll be marking it with paint. When we find it, we bring it back and inspect it for hair. No dice so far. We haven't taken note of the type of trees nearby when we've found it.

We may have up to four thermal devices this year. Two handheld units and two weapon-mounted.

The heated towel bar had to be cut from the operation due to budget constraints but we were able to upgrade the DirectTV package and will now be able to watch baseball games while on site. They look great on the 60" flatscreen.

[the parkie]

Interesting, thanks.

Have you considered marking a few bits with luminous paint?

[southernyahoo]

 

Firewood is nothing like forest wood. It's usually dense, cut to a uniform size and heft, and is dry and resonant. Random wood found on the forest floor is wet or rotting and can't be used as well to knock on a tree. As to why they'd use wood to signal rather than vocalize, you'll need to direct that question to them.

 

You know it just might be that they've learned that animals can be desensitized to knocks and yet they can still be useful communication without alraming their prey or other subjects of interest. Same with rock clacks, clicks, whistles tomgue tocks etc. Using sounds that have multiple "possible" sources keeps the animals off gaurd you might say.

[1980squatch]

The heated towel bar had to be cut from the operation due to budget constraints...

Bad move, you're going to regret that one...

[WSA]

Just wondering about the possibilities that come with a booby-trapped firewood pile...yeah, I know. But, you have to admit, an anti-personnel mine, or a remotely detonated IED do bump your probabilities up substantially. Crazy talk, yes. But still.

 

You don't have to even tell me it has been discussed, because I'm sure it has. I admire your restraint, if I'm right. Not sure I would not be induced to bring in some experts if I were you.  

[Terry]

There used to be a story up here of a guy who was having his firewood stolen by someone.  He couldn't catch the guy so he hollowed out a piece of wood and put a small stick of dynamite in it.  Days later it blew up the thief's wood stove and everyone then knew who it was.  Well, it COULD be true!  :-)

[WSA]

Yep, that story resurfaces regularly. I would expect it to be accompanied by the account of the prosecution, trial and conviction for manslaughter too!

 

Here's an historical tidbit in that same vein. When they began searching for the remains of Harry Longbaugh a/k/a The Sundance Kid, in S.A. (Bolivia?) they found a skull that they thought could be his. What ruled it out was that the found it had multiple iron fragments imbedded in it. On researching the burial records they came across the account of a local miner who decided he would see if he could thaw out his frozen dynamite in his cook stove. (The classic: "Hold my beer. I want to try something.")  Yep, that was him.

[salubrious]

If any of your thermal cameras have status indications like LEDs or the like you might want to put some tape over them. You might also see if any of the thermal units use switching power supplies- sometimes they can make high frequency noise. Humans can hear up to 20Khz and can feel frequencies above that, but in the 21st century we have been subjected to so many loud sounds that usually our high frequency hearing range is destroyed by the time we are in our 30s. IOW the BF may be able to hear high frequency sounds that you may not- sounds that could be coming from the thermal cameras.  

[Lake County Bigfooot]

Sounds like the team will have some R&R with the TV package, I bet the WA's will be curious of what you guys are watching. Maybe it

would be a good idea to let them have a view of the screen, maybe outside of rock throwing distance in case their team muffs a ground

ball or something, just kidding.  With the thermal gear on the weapons, have you guys changed tactics, or is that what was in place last

year?  I know that we discussed some of the options, I wonder if a tazer could also be useful in a close surprise encounter, and could

lead to a possible live capture, well if that is remotely even possible.  I guess if it didn't work you would be toast.  Yah I would keep my

distance as much as possible when one goes down, perhaps you could give us some idea of what the protocol is once one is downed?

How can you hope to retrieve it when the rest may have their own plan...or do you think they would abandon the body and run for the hills?

Edited April 22, 2014 by Lake County Bigfooot