N A W A C - Field Study Discussion

[Guest]

Well there is always the fourth option. Misidentification.

 

I would normally agree with you, but we now have multiple sightings by multiple individuals of what appear to be multiple animals. Plus, our experiences go much further than sightings. 

[Drew]

Bipto would be the first person to say that we cannot conclude #3 based on what has been presented.

[Guest]

I'm thinking that "families" or local communities of SSQ have localized characteristics in their vocalizations (howls, etc.) that they learn from the parent population. 

 

Seems reasonable. I'm not familiar with other great ape vocalizations well enough to know if an analog exists with chimps or gorillas, but I wouldn't be surprised to find there is one. 

 

 

Bringing in a vocalization from a different region of the country, in this case Michigan, might be seen as a competitive element from outside the local group that needs investigating. I'm thinking it could draw an animal out to be photographed, tranquilized or shot. Thoughts?

 

Again, I think this is reasonable. If they're territorial (and they very well may be based on their continued presence in our research area) then the arrival of a new individual or troop would be a potentially threatening event. We have played the Ohio Howl in there and have heard what to us sounded a lot like the Ohio Howl vocalized (most often spontaneously and not when we have been playing it ourselves), though I can't say it's the reason we've had activity around us. We've also played a variety or primate sounds along with bits of the Sierra Sounds over the years. 

 

I think it's a reasonable hypothesis. 

Bipto would be the first person to say that we cannot conclude #3 based on what has been presented.

 

Well, you could *conclude* it, though it's not the same as proof. Not at all. 

[southernyahoo]

 

Hello bipto,

I'm directing this to you for your opinion:

http://soundcloud.com/jim-sherman/icmmontage

Do you think introducing this soundbyte via a projected sound source would create a curiosity factor for SSQ in your neck of the woods? Explaining this further: I'm thinking that "families" or local communities of SSQ have localized characteristics in their vocalizations (howls, etc.) that they learn from the parent population. Also that genetics play a part in the design of voice physiology giving a region a distinct tone and/or dialect. Bringing in a vocalization from a different region of the country, in this case Michigan, might be seen as a competitive element from outside the local group that needs investigating. I'm thinking it could draw an animal out to be photographed, tranquilized or shot. Thoughts?

To keep things above board I've already presented this idea to Norseman's Grendel Project.

The idea has been implemented heavily in the past with mixed results I'd say. It's probably likely that these beings can become desensitised to certain calls if they've investigated those before and found people. Certain calls like the Ohio Howl seem to get the best responses, from my experience. Lots of coyotes will respond if in the area.

[hiflier]

Hello All,

Thank you everyone for your responses. Again, I seem to be ten steps behind you folks when this stuff strikes me. BUT that's okay. And your patience is not merely admirable! Now perhaps I will have more time to fine tune things. It occurs to me that what bipto said about how SSQ possibly investigating and finding people might result in desensitizing it is curious. A way around it would be sound bait set up in different locations and blasted one at a time remotely without Humans around. If the audio was placed in locations like at the end of blind canyons or in a hollow in a rock face then trail cams could be placed about fifty yards or less on the way to the sound sources.

Trigger the soundings randomly to make it appear as if a competing species was moving around the "hood" in a half mile radius or simply in random locations. To me could keep the Hairy Ones busy for most of a day. Set-ups that were able to be viewed from a distance or from a ridge looking down might be good options. My apologies for jumping in here but when the "rocks" happen I just have to lob them, in if for no other reason than to get them out of my head.

Edited July 8, 2013 by hiflier

[hiflier]

Hello bipto,

 

If I have your attention would you or gigantor be kind enough to provide a solid link to the Premium sign-up page. I can't seem to make headway off of the link here in the BFF. 

 

Thanks, hiflier.

[gigantor]

1. The NAWAC is lying.

2. The NAWAC is being hoaxed.

3. The NAWAC is encountering an undocumented species of primate.

allowing for Norseman's Fourth option... there is a fifth possibility.

Bipto and the crew could be Flower-Children of the sixties, dudes on ludes, maaan, party on... who watched Stars Wars one too many times while tripping and are having Chewbacca flashbacks while in the woods.

Seriously.

 

Hello bipto,

 

If I have your attention would you or gigantor be kind enough to provide a solid link to the Premium sign-up page. I can't seem to make headway off of the link here in the BFF. 

 

Thanks, hiflier.

Sorry hiflier, just got back from Florida...

http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/30015-important-news-premium-access-memberships-are-now-available/#entry577025

Edited July 8, 2013 by gigantor

[gigantor]

Just in case... the flower-children comment was in jest.

[hiflier]

Hello gigantor,

Hope the trip had at least one perfect moment. Sent you a PM.

[Guest DWA]

Bipto would be the first person to say that we cannot conclude #3 based on what has been presented.

Well, we may not be able to conclude it.  But people there on the ground can.  As bipto noted, that isn't proof that will satisfy the society.  But these are folks that if they're satisfied, I have to stop questioning them pointlessly, and wait for proof.

[Guest alaskaloner]

 

 

 

JW, head over to the JREF. Find the thread from two years ago when we first started talking about Operation Endurance. I'd find the thread for you, but I wouldn't go back to that cesspool if you paid me. Find where our Alaskan friend began his quest to find X. Not so he could confirm our observations or validate our claims, but so he could talk others into going there and interfering. He carelessly and callously encouraged others to put our members and themselves in danger by walking in and disrupting our work. He incited them to break laws by trespassing. This is not an intellectually honest person. He has proven himself not to be someone worthy of debate. Even his interaction here demonstrates that. He swoops in, lays his egg and fertilizes it with bile and venom, then flies off again. Would you, in my position, give him anything more than I have? Would anyone reading this even continue to engage *at all* in the face of this kind of abuse?

 

It's a good question. We've had both approached. They seem to be boldest when they think they're unseen, so IMO it's about a horse apiece.

 

As to the location of Area X, it seems to me that NAWAC has already posted it on their website:

http://woodape.org/reports/report/detail/457

 

 

That's interesting.  Nowhere in that vicinity (between paved highway 1 and paved highway 63) are you ever more than a mile and a half from a perfectly paved highway taking the lamest passenger bus or lowrider.   Here is the closest google picture along hwy 1 looking South there:  http://www.panoramio.com/photo/86783959?source=wapi&referrer=kh.google.com   Some dudes on their motorcycles.   But you can easily see the nonpaved roads on Google, like NF 6032.  They're much better than what I just drove on today to check out the Stuart Creek Fire.  Over seventy thousand acres now.  You can't see my roads on google earth, let alone our four-wheeler trails.  Much heavier cover, narrower, and rougher terrain.  Those are really easy roads you can see there in the Oachita, and there's quite a bit of tourism literature in that vicinity about them.  Bed and breakfasts, four-wheeler rentals, bikes, horses, etc.  that talk about these roads. 

 

Here is a couple of pictures crossing the Kiamachi for example right there on NF 6032:

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/2588193?source=wapi&referrer=kh.google.com

and

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/2588246?source=wapi&referrer=kh.google.com

 

Gosh, I would love to have roads that beautifully maintained where I cut wood for winter heat or where we hunt and fish.  Nice gravel surface to drive on - don't even need four wheel drive in the river shown in those pictures.  I have to use a real truck with big tires and oversized rims in 4wd low or our four-wheelers.   We got winches and cables to yard logs and get us out of trouble.  Those pictures above show how pedestrian this area is.  In terms of someone who actually lives or works in the woods anyway.  I'd love to see pictures demonstrating otherwise, and invite them to share with us. 

 

There's almost no ground that is over a mile from either that forest service road, the paved highways, or another gravel road.  Pointing this out is in the interest of honest assessment of the claims, one of which is being "miles" from a road.   Nowhere in that region anywhere.   So easy to see that with Google Earth.

 

ShadoAngel  - when you were framing the researchers having no financial interest you overlooked the tax-deductable financial incentive.  Gosh, inadvertently, right?   I would like to be able to write off all my gas, travel, food, etc. for any number of things I do recreationally.   Wow, what a bonus deal!   Write off all the equipment I buy too!   It looks to me like going to Las Vegas would produce just as much evidence so making my Vegas trips a tax-deductable charitable contribution has all the same merit.  Same thing here - in the interest of honest full disclosure this financial benefit should be pointed out when you are claiming there is no financial benefit to these recreational trips. 

[Guest]

ShadoAngel  - when you were framing the researchers having no financial interest you overlooked the tax-deductable financial incentive.  Gosh, inadvertently, right?   I would like to be able to write off all my gas, travel, food, etc. for any number of things I do recreationally.   Wow, what a bonus deal!   Write off all the equipment I buy too!   It looks to me like going to Las Vegas would produce just as much evidence so making my Vegas trips a tax-deductable charitable contribution has all the same merit.  Same thing here - in the interest of honest full disclosure this financial benefit should be pointed out when you are claiming there is no financial benefit to these recreational trips. 

 

Before you use the limited tax benefit of being a 501c3 as a cudgel against us, you should do a little research into the subject. The single best write-off is mileage and that doesn't amount to very much except for those in the group who drive all over hell and back in a year. I don't know of a single member who's purchased an expensive piece of equipment and tried to use it to reduce their tax bill. Not one. (And if you tried, then you'd be donating that equipment to the group, not taking it back home with you at the end of the trip.) That's not even counting all the smaller yet still substantial equipment donations many of us make over the course of an operation. Water tanks, food, paper towels - pretty much anything you need around a basecamp that's established and run for 3-4 months. 123 batteries alone are a huge expense. The thermals and NV units eat those like candy. 

 

Asserting that our legitimate and lawful organization as a tax-exempt corporation is a "financial incentive" is silliest charge I've heard yet. 

 

WRT to location and how close the nearest road is, etc., I stand by all my previous statements regardless of what you see on Google maps. 

Edited July 11, 2013 by bipto

[Guest Cervelo]

Why's it a charge? It's true and it sounds smart, I would love to know how it's done.

I'd love to be able to write off anything I could while doing "research" with a fishing pole or gun at my side or camping or hiking ect ect!!

Edited July 11, 2013 by Cervelo

[Cotter]

Ummm....folks, if that is what NAWAC's end game is on this, they would be by far the most foolish group of tax evaders in northern hemisphere.

 

I'll clue you in.  People DO do this, they form groups called Rod n' Gun clubs, Sportsman's Clubs, and Community Groups.

 

*shakes head*

 

And Cervelo, if you'd like to pursue this for yourself, go for it, as I've said, it's already being done 1000 fold (or more) already.

Edit:

Bipto - on an aside, are you allowed to share your by-laws publicly?  If so, is there any way we could peruse them?

[Guest DWA]

I like it.  This is a new tack.  Cool.

 

501c3 is a scam, so bigfoot isn't real.

 

Creative.  In its, er, way.