N A W A C - Field Study Discussion

[Drew]

Based on many of your previous posts, I am quite surprised to see you make such an offer. Especially so, because in the past you have basically said many times that such an animal existing in that area is an impossibility. If I were a more suspicious person I would think you were encouraging them to do just the thing that so many people love to accuse them of doing........somehow profiting from telling tall tales.

 

I'll tell you what. Go ahead and start sending me $9.99 a month, and I will send you monthly videos of an EXTRA SQUATCHY area behind the infamous Home Depot in San Antonio. I have to go in there later to pick up some supplies anyway.

 

As a paid in full "Squatch-cam Insider©", I will also send you a newsletter with reviews of Blue and White tents, my "tree trunk Ribs" recipe, and discuss the rumors that Missing 411 Volume III might be in the works, and might possibly be about all of the homeless people who used to be back there behind the Home Depot, but aren't anymore. Act now!!! The first ten subscribers get to try on the real Patty suit.

 

Go find where I said it was impossible.

Then understand that I think until evidence is proffered, my default position is that there are no Wood Apes in Oklahoma.  This is a very bland position.

 

I am making the point that I would be willing to invest in their endeavor, through the purchase of a web cam.  I do not think they will discover a Wood Ape there.  However I would be elated if they did.

 

Your claim of a Squatchy area behind the Home-Depot is standard for many Bigfoot sightings, I do not doubt that you think there is a Bigfoot living back there.  However, I would not invest in your trail cam, because it is even more unlikely to hold a population of unclassified upright primates than the once-barren areas of Eastern Oklahoma.

 

PS- They can't PROFIT from the web cam, they are a non-profit organization.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Drew

[Cotter]

Human standing long jump record is over 12 feet. (approx 4 m).

 

Aren't higher primates like chimps and gorillas like 6 to 10 times 'stronger' than humans?

Can we extrapolate leaping distances from that info?

[Drew]

No.  Your strength claim is a myth.  Check out this Dr. John Hawks article dispelling that myth:

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2009/02/how_strong_is_a_chimpanzee.single.html

Edited July 24, 2013 by Drew

[Guest DWA]

Based on many of your previous posts, I am quite surprised to see you make such an offer. Especially so, because in the past you have basically said many times that such an animal existing in that area is an impossibility. If I were a more suspicious person I would think you were encouraging them to do just the thing that so many people love to accuse them of doing........somehow profiting from telling tall tales.

 

I'll tell you what. Go ahead and start sending me $9.99 a month, and I will send you monthly videos of an EXTRA SQUATCHY area behind the infamous Home Depot in San Antonio. I have to go in there later to pick up some supplies anyway.

 

As a paid in full "Squatch-cam Insider©", I will also send you a newsletter with reviews of Blue and White tents, my "tree trunk Ribs" recipe, and discuss the rumors that Missing 411 Volume III might be in the works, and might possibly be about all of the homeless people who used to be back there behind the Home Depot, but aren't anymore. Act now!!! The first ten subscribers get to try on the real Patty suit.

If you throw in Rick Dyer all tied up to toss on my hood and drive around, I'll buy three.

[Cotter]

Interesting find drew.

 

How much leg force can a 1600 lb athletic man generate?  According to that article, that would be the approximate force an 800 lb primate could generate.

 

 

Also, to clarify, it was not a claim that I made, but rather a question asked.

BUT, you made a claim "than the once-barren areas of Eastern Oklahoma" that I must ask:  Why do you keep bringing this up?  It has been shown that this statement is incorrect. 

 

Additionally, are YOU claiming Area X is in an area that was clear cut at some point? 

Edited July 24, 2013 by Cotter

[dmaker]

Chimps jump several feet and gorillas 5 - 10 feet from what I can gather.  This is a land jump, not a limb to limb kind of thing. 

[Guest DWA]

No.  Your strength claim is a myth.  Check out this Dr. John Hawks article dispelling that myth:

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2009/02/how_strong_is_a_chimpanzee.single.html

I went to that article.  The interesting thing about it is that Hawks really does nothing to dispell the myth.  He just accepts the later figures and presumes the earlier ones were wrong, offering several...well, excuses.

 

But I found another one there that is far more interesting.

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/07/decline_of_wildlife_in_america_where_have_all_the_animals_gone.single.html

 

This article explains to me, pretty thoroughly, why most folks have real problems thinking about sasquatch.  They simply lack perspective.

[Drew]

Interesting find drew.

 

How much leg force can a 1600 lb athletic man generate?  According to that article, that would be the approximate force an 800 lb primate could generate.

 

 

Also, to clarify, it was not a claim that made, but rather asked a question.

BUT, you made a claim "than the once-barren areas of Eastern Oklahoma" that I must ask.

Why do you keep bringing this up?  It has been shown that this statement is incorrect. 

 

Additionally, are YOU claiming Area X is in an area that was clear cut at some point? 

 

No.

I'll give you some starting points.

The claim that Eastern Oklahoma wasn't clear cut has not been shown to be correct.

 

I don't know if AREA X was ever clear cut.  The mountainous areas of E. Oklahoma produced a larger number of Board-feet than the flat lands, so the area would have been in high demand. (see the google book link at the end)  It could be part of the virgin forests remaining Oklahoma.  The virgin forests would not be tangled with undergrowth however.  The large mature trees tend to block sunlight from filtering down below and causing a tangle of brush.  Especially pine trees.

 

http://www.forestry.ok.gov/Websites/forestry/Images/CentennialBrochure.pdf

 

Note the number of logging towns in one county of SE Oklahoma

 

http://www.forestry.ok.gov/lost-forest

 

"By the 1930s less than 200,000 acres of virgin forest in eastern Oklahoma remained."

 

 

http://digital.library.okstate.edu/encyclopedia/entries/M/MI028.html

 

 

As the Dierks brothers built a railroad into southeastern Oklahoma, they founded towns such as Broken Bow and Bismark (later Wright City) as mill towns to support various aspects of the business. In 1927 the company ambitiously established Pine Valley inLeFlore County, one of the largest lumber towns in the American South. Pine Valley offered a large hotel, general store, drugstore, post office, barbershop, doctor, school, boarding house, movie house, ice plant, jail, churches, and over one hundred houses. There was even a segregated section for African American workers. In the early 1900s Dierks also had mobile company towns consisting of entire buildings that were transported into an area on railroad cars, unloaded to serve the workers while they cut all of the surrounding timber, and then loaded back onto the railroad cars and moved to a new location. These towns, such as Clebit, could have as many as two hundred homes and businesses.

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=9cnQxNPn5CUC&printsec=frontcover&dq=The+Story+of+Cutting+the+Last+Great+Virgin+Forest+East+of+the+Rockies&hl=en&sa=X&ei=BT7wUYO6JMPD4APj6YGgCw&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=The%20Story%20of%20Cutting%20the%20Last%20Great%20Virgin%20Forest%20East%20of%20the%20Rockies&f=false

Edited July 24, 2013 by Drew

[Guest]

Some other little niggling bits also like why didn't the hunter shoot? 

 

Why would he? And even if he felt like it (seriously, though, why do people seem to think hunters will shoot at anything?), perhaps he didn't have enough gun to drop a 1,000 pound animal. 

[Guest DWA]

I don't think that I would characterize a 45 foot crouching silent leap from an 800 lb primate as "biologically correct".  To do so is more like wishful thinking in my opinion and a refusal to recognize what is probably an outright fabrication in a favourite report. 

And you know this, um, how?

[Guest]

The claim that Eastern Oklahoma wasn't clear cut has not been shown to be correct.

 

Yes it has. By an employee of the US Forest Service who, in her line of work, has learned how to look this kind of stuff up. 

[dmaker]

And you know this, um, how?

 

Based on the fact that no other similar animal displays anything near this type of ability.

 

And you know it is correct, how? By comparing it to....stories...?  

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

A 40 foot jump may seem like a lot, but it's not biologically impossible. Plus, the guy could have been exaggerating what he saw like most witnesses do. You can determine, at least theoretically, a rough estimate of how fast a Bigfoot could move compared to humans given these three assumptions:

 

-The PGF shows a real bigfoot

-Bigfoot is a wild ape

-The average stride length reported by witnesses is accurate

 

The creature in the PGF was shown to be almost biomechanically identical to humans (hence why we think it could be a guy inside a costume walking). With that we can assume that stride length x stride frequency will determine their speed in relation to humans. Naturally part of this is easily solved since we know their stride length is much greater than ours, but if they are pound for pound as strong as any other wild ape and move the same way we do, we can assume their stride frequency is just as amazing. So I guess we're talking about an animal that could move very fast (if it's real) 

[Guest DWA]

Based on the fact that no other similar animal displays anything near this type of ability.

 

And you know it is correct, how? By comparing it to....stories...?  

Unlike some folks, I don't know it...until it is proven to me.

 

No other animal can jump like a flea either. 

 

But a flea can.

[Cotter]

Yes it has. By an employee of the US Forest Service who, in her line of work, has learned how to look this kind of stuff up. 

 

It wasn't that many pages ago where this information was presented.

 

Logging occured, yes, but it didn't leave behind barren earth (devoid of all surface vegetation).

 

To include the term 'barren' in the assessment of Eastern OK forestry practices is misleading and fundamentally untrue.