Tree Manipulation/ Wood Structures: What Is The Evidence?

[WSA]

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=529

 

This one mentions a broken tree, not consistent with avalanche damage.

[WSA]

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=27075

 

I'll post this to this thread as it roughly on-topic to the original post, but mainly to flag this report for those who've wondered if there are any witnesses to a Sasquatch executing a tree knock. Apparently, there is at least one.

[Guest DWA]

I may even have posted it on this thread but I am aware of three of which this is one.

[Guest DWA]

On ‎2‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 10:52 AM, WSA said:

 

As you say Twist, humans COULD have made all of these, took them down, moved them, etc. Reaching for the explanation, always, is a thought stopper though. I prefer to think along the lines of WHY a human would do that? In all my time in backcountry areas, I've never found what is described here without some other human remnant.  Kids like to build "forts", we all know. They also like to tie things to trees, hang up tarps, hack the bark off a tree, pound in stakes, dig out the floor, and  "improve" the area. No kid goes into the woods to do something like this without a saw, knife or hatchet...maybe even an entrenching tool to boot.  That is the point to a child...to get to use a cool, sharp tool to build something. (Boy did I) And, once they do, they don't just knock it down and build it somewhere else.  If they come back, they just add stuff onto it, to make it even cooler.  Spend some time in the woods with any group of boys, and you'll have this proven to you time and again.  By product of trail maintenance? Again, I'm doubting it. As somebody who has cleared more than my share of tread way, I can tell you I've never thought to pile it up into a teepee formation, nor have I ever seen a trail crew do that. You get it off the trail and move one. Spending the calories to drag it to one location and tip it up into a teepee makes no sense whatsoever.       

The ONLY human motivation I can think of to do this is a camper tipping up logs for a firewood stash, to get it up off the snow. There would necessarily be evidence of a fire pit nearby though, and one is not mentioned.

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=2493

 

This one makes mention of broken trees.

I don't know why this continually needs to be mentioned but it continually does:  throwing out a bunch of possibilities, with no evaluation of their likelihood - and I'm with WSA right down the line on the likelihood of the human-generated causes mentioned - says nothing asserts nothing proves nothing.  And is actually inadmissible in the absence of clear evidence that the speculated possibility actually happened.  Occam's Razor applies better to ruling out those causes than it does sasquatch, as the "simplest explanation" has to be an expected occurrence in the actual real world.

Edited February 8, 2017 by DWA

[BigTreeWalker]

On 2/7/2017 at 8:23 AM, WSA said:

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=27075

 

I'll post this to this thread as it roughly on-topic to the original post, but mainly to flag this report for those who've wondered if there are any witnesses to a Sasquatch executing a tree knock. Apparently, there is at least one.

He also brings up another interesting observation. He was using a cow elk call to call in a bull. But he questioned whether it was a bull that came in. That is the same as happened to us last year. Something approached us after cow calling. The difference being that we were heard two loud knocks at the end of its approach. He didn't hear knocks until later. 

[hiflier]

I did read a report a while ago where witnesses saw a Sasquatch group walking through a wetland or something and one of the creatures was making a clacking sound.

Edited February 9, 2017 by hiflier

[Twist]

On 2/6/2017 at 10:52 AM, WSA said:

..........

 

As you say Twist, humans COULD have made all of these, took them down, moved them, etc. Reaching for the explanation, always, is a thought stopper though. I prefer to think along the lines of WHY a human would do that? In all my time in backcountry areas, I've never found what is described here without some other human remnant.  Kids like to build "forts", we all know. They also like to tie things to trees, hang up tarps, hack the bark off a tree, pound in stakes, dig out the floor, and  "improve" the area. No kid goes into the woods to do something like this without a saw, knife or hatchet...maybe even an entrenching tool to boot.  That is the point to a child...to get to use a cool, sharp tool to build something. (Boy did I) And, once they do, they don't just knock it down and build it somewhere else.  If they come back, they just add stuff onto it, to make it even cooler.  Spend some time in the woods with any group of boys, and you'll have this proven to you time and again.  By product of trail maintenance? Again, I'm doubting it. As somebody who has cleared more than my share of tread way, I can tell you I've never thought to pile it up into a teepee formation, nor have I ever seen a trail crew do that. You get it off the trail and move one. Spending the calories to drag it to one location and tip it up into a teepee makes no sense whatsoever.       

The ONLY human motivation I can think of to do this is a camper tipping up logs for a firewood stash, to get it up off the snow. There would necessarily be evidence of a fire pit nearby though, and one is not mentioned.

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=2493

 

This one makes mention of broken trees.

 

I grew up in the country, camping, exploring, being in the woods because I was not allowed in the house before dusk, especially during summer break!  I built forts and structures with saws and hatchets.  I built them out of old structures built by kids a few years older than myself.  We salvaged their old stuff or our own at times.  

 

Structures that are 100% unknown in origin to me that resemble something I may have made as youth get filed under "likely human". I know of a documented species, me, that exhibits this trait.  If I observe a BF making a structure similar in nature then I am open to that being an observerd trait.  

 

 

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

20 minutes ago, Twist said:

Structures that are 100% unknown in origin to me that resemble something I may have made as youth get filed under "likely human". I know of a documented species, me, that exhibits this trait.  If I observe a BF making a structure similar in nature then I am open to that being an observerd trait.

Here is new Bindernagel presentation that has slides of what a true manipulation might look like.

I did find a great one my self online that showed a complete structure made from spiral twists split offs a person could not do and modified into a structure that is very unlike what a human would make but made with advanced reasoning skills. It's a shame I can't find it again but here is the other one.

PS: most great apes have the ability to weave nests and make sleeping platforms, it'w where our own abilities originated.

 

[Guest WesT]

On 2/4/2017 at 3:45 PM, ioyza said:

Wes, I need to go back and read more of this thread clearly, that sounds interesting. I was impressed by your find of the worn spot on the structure where the bow would be held down. Unfortunately I didn't think to look for such signs of wear at the time, but there's always the chance that it was recently built and not yet used, or even had been attempted to be used, just not successfully. Or that I'm completely wrong about its purpose.

 

 

That's the hardest part of it, determining purpose. The clues are there because there are some things one cannot just "undo". It took going back to the site over several days to wrap my head around the scope of what I was seeing. Probably a year or so before I put it all together and the "you gotta be kidding me" moment happened. But if anyone is interested in how early man may have utilized the environment to hunt, before fire and compound tools, I can testify that that knowledge is being used today by someone, or something closely related to us.

[ioyza]

So, as to beaver activity as an explanation for the structures I posted, it's definitely not possible for location 2, no beavers there. For the creek structure, I suppose there's some chance, but:

 

1. That doesn't explain the twisted/broken aspen trunks, and corresponding twisted/broken aspen trees hidden behind a rock, which correspond well with the tallest stick in the structure.

2. It doesn't explain the rocks that were thrown in the creek while we were studying the structure

3. It doesn't really make sense for beavers, what would the purpose be? This is also just downstream of a small man-made reservoir (that being a ways downstream of a very large man-made reservoir, Tarryall). Do beavers use man-made reservoirs rather than building a dam?

 

Wes, I'm not sure I'd ever have come up with the trap theory for either structure on my own, if someone on the BFRO forums hadn't suggested it I might still not have a theoretical purpose that explains its form satisfactorily. The idea that the second structure at location 2 was a deer trap sort of dawned on me as it uses nearly the same design principle - and both of these really fit with the notion of sasquatch as an ambush predator (which is observed behavior).

 

Let me shift gears for a minute, and bear with me as I fully acknowledge this is going to get into very unscientific, murky, subjective waters, but it relates to evaluating the plausibility of a structure being man-made. There's something I've noticed in the structures I've attributed to sasquatch that's hard to describe, but it basically amounts to that they... don't quite "feel" human. There's something in their appearance, in their form, the details they choose to attend to, the symmetry or often lack thereof... it all begs the usual question "why?" of potential human construction, but to me it also just intuitively doesn't reflect the way the human creative process tends to manifest. Here's an example, found at location 1 at the top of a peak that overlooks the creek; this structure is on the back side just below the rocky top:

 

 

The three parallel sticks in the bottom left of the picture were what caught my eye as a friend and I started to walk back down after a sunrise hike to this peak, and I immediately walked toward it without thought or comment. I find the angles in this structure are strangely beautiful, and I fear my photography skills were too shoddy to capture that, but here are a couple more angles and details:

 

 

 

(top view, the three parallel sticks are in the upper-left here, for reference)

 

 

Point of reference is hard to discern here, apologies. This is the structure from the back in the right of this picture, and the tree that extends across the picture is incorporated into the structure, while being pinned under some logs at the left of the picture. Close up of the tree tuck:

 

 

It's hard for me to imagine a person making this, and not just because of the still-live tree bent down, tucked under logs, and incorporated into the structure. There's something else about it that just simply doesn't feel human. I'm interested in getting your opinions on this, and you Twist as the voice of frequent childhood structure-building skepticism. I'm also interested in what you make of this sort of detail in a structure:

 

 

Two pairs of sticks tied together by a strand of reed/grass.

 

Piece of fence post pinned between stick and tree trunk.

 

 

Branches tied together by a strip of bark.

 

[Guest sjk123]

Here are a few pictures I took a couple weeks ago. This was on private land.

First picture:

notice how long the branch is yet almost perfectly balanced.

The branch was placed in very tightly. 

Branch points toward my cabin ( not sure if this is significant or not)

pictures 2 and 3 are close ups of the same branch.

 

picture 4: seems to be a large number of branches placed around this tree. 

Branches appear to be facing the wrong way to have simply fallen.

Edited February 9, 2017 by sjk123
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[Guest Seatco]

Interesting picture(buddy). Break is approx 15' in air.No signs of lighting damage.Any ideas?

 

 

[BigTreeWalker]

My take on that one Seatco is that something created a rotten spot in the center of the tree there, a branch possibly. The outside wood could no longer withstand the stress and gave way. 

[WSA]

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=50124

 

[Twist]

That's an interesting report and brings up a lot of questions behaviorally about BF. It really demonstrates the possiblity of them possessing cognitive thinking skills beyond that of a normal animal.