This Is A Neanderthal.

[Guest]

Native Americans did thrive on the American continent, as hunter-gatherers, (with some ag thrown in in the SouthWest) The populations were most likely as large as they were going to get, and their lifestyle was orientated toward maintaining the hunter-gatherer system, they did not utilize the environment as heavily for material resources.

 

So, therefore, the Squatch population, and the American Indian population would have fluctuated only slightly. It seems that the 'Giant' Indians, possibly over-sized Crow-Magnon peoples, or some other Caucasoid race, was here and did suffer a rapid decline, that may have been enhanced by the arrival of modern Europeans.

 

The facts about Neanderthal show it to be obviously dissimilar in many respects, including mental ability, to Crow-magnon man, who was clearly superior in intelligence, as I have had to theorize because the 'College Boy'' who wrote the original drivel nonsense clearly has no brain. Clearly. (eventually in ag based cultures) High Art (eventually)= Written Language.

 

Neanderthal=No High Art, No Written Language. This is a HUGE difference. This does not mean they are APE LIKE. They would not be capable of advancing much beyond their current condition. They most likely would not have developed agriculture.  

 

Here, for all the slow folks:

 

See, aaarrrrrtttttt. P-i-c-t-u-r-e     A-r-t -

 

This is why high art is important. Here is High Crow Magnon Art:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lascaux

 

 

This information is so pathetically dated, this stuff is 10 years old or more. I do not know about the ''author'' of this latest, decade old meme to ''humanize'' and ''equalize'' Neanderthal to modern humans, it is a subject more suited and actually started in the Tar-Pit open forum, (and it was a quick ending BTW, 4 posts).

 

My guess is that the ding-dong who dredged up all the equality-nonsense is a totally incompetent researcher who is putting out regurgitated nonsense to complete his next level degree, (it certainly is NOT A PHD), because of the obvious mindlessness and non-scientific emotionally based drivel that, yet again, has been around for a decade plus.  

 

It is really an issue that should be addressed at the University level.

 

But mind you, this is the SAME "University" (Hahahahaha) that put in Ward Churchill as a 'Native American', (who's ancestry is actually totally White European, going back to the Mayflower) and that whole clown show (Google or Startpage that info, you won't believe it) so the fact that there is such idiotic unsubstantiated opinionated drivel coming out of there should be no surprise.

 

This clown is treading on sacred ground, anthropologically speaking. I may take this up with the University, but the climate is not conductive to rational thought.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Wag

[Guest]

In some instances Neanderthal has a larger brain case than us.  I go with Neanderthal knocking at the door of higher intelligence and far less ape like than often posed.

 

Apes have a really high working memory, much higher than humans. Apes can do things with their brains that looks like computers, compared to humans. The parts of the brain that are larger on Neanderthal well, should be studied, but?????

They seem to have a smaller frontal cortex and larger occipital lobe.

 

 

One has to wonder at this point if a 'University Researcher" would be allowed to study the differences and sizes of Neanderthals brain. I would bet that would be frowned upon in the extreem.

 

 

WHHHOOOOPPPPPSSS:

 

Sorry, ALREADY DONE.

 

http://science.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/12/17287827-brain-comparison-suggests-that-neanderthals-lacked-social-skills

 

According to the study, published in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B, bigger-eyed and larger-bodied Neanderthals required more brain space devoted to the visual system and basic body functions, leaving less area for what co-author Robin Dunbar called "the smart part."

 

MILLIONS OF ARTICLES ON HOW STUPID NEANDERTHAL WAS.

 

 

Google:    neanderthal brain comparison

 

Millions of articles.

 

WE have been PUNKED!

 

The author of this DRIVEL of ''equality'' should be expelled, and sent back to the 8th grade.

 

No charge. But we have to stop meeting like this.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Wag

[Guest Stan Norton]

Wow. Where to start. Again, you demonstrate that you literally have no idea what you are talking about. I would take a university researcher or college boy over incoherent rambling every time.

Cro-Magnon writing?? Eh? Do some more reading prof. And one would think that such a self-proclaimed expert would take the trouble to spell the term correctly wouldn't one?

Millions of articles (do you mean weird internet articles?) demonstrate your theory that Neanderthals were brute animals? Again, wrong. Just factually incorrect.

I think Norse had it right. There seems little point in arguing with someone so wilfully ill informed on the topic.

[Guest Stan Norton]

The science of forensic cranial reconstruction is so much more than guesswork. It's educated, no highly educated work based on decades of careful precise studies of bones, musculature, flesh and skin and their interrelationships. We know, for a fact, that Homo neandertalensis is our closest relative: it is therefore perfectly logical and scientific to use measurements from countless studies on us to inform studies of their physiology. To deny otherwise is just plain daft.

[Incorrigible1]

I don't share your forgone belief "science" is able to faithfully reconstruct Neanderthal faces from the skulls extant. I admire your faith.

[Guest Stan Norton]

Not faith in the sense I think you mean it: reason and logic. The same stuff I apply when I put my trust in my doctor or dentist or any other person with professional skills and knowledge. They know what they are doing and saying. I like that.  They tend not mouth off nonsense and come across worse for wear...if so I'd say no thanks.

[AaronD]

Betty was hotter than Wilma.

which one was the brunette?

[hiflier]

Hello AaronD,

Ahhh, that would be Betty.

[JDL]

Wilma was a redhead, and therefore of more direct Neanderthal descent.

 

Mary Ann or Ginger?

Answer:  Jeanie!

[clubbedfoot]

 

study of Neanderthal skulls suggests that they became extinct because they had larger eyes than our species.

As a result, more of their brains were devoted to seeing in the long, dark nights in Europe, at the expense of high-level processing.

By contrast, the larger frontal brain regions of Homo sapiens led to the fashioning of warmer clothes and the development of larger social networks.

The study is published in Proceedings of the Royal Society B.

Neanderthals are a closely related species of human that lived in Europe from around 250,000 years ago. They coexisted and interacted briefly with our species until they went extinct about 28,000 years ago, in part due to an ice age.

The research team explored the idea that the ancestor of Neanderthals left Africa and had to adapt to the longer, darker nights and murkier days of Europe. The result was that Neanderthals evolved larger eyes and a much larger visual processing area at the backs of their brains.

The humans that stayed in Africa, on the other hand, continued to enjoy bright and beautiful days and so had no need for such an adaption. Instead, these people, our ancestors, evolved their frontal lobes, associated with higher-level thinking, before they spread across the globe.

Eiluned Pearce of Oxford University decided to check this theory. She compared the skulls of 32 Homo sapiens and 13 Neanderthals.

Social networks

Ms Pearce found that Neanderthals had significantly larger eye sockets - by an average of 6mm from top to bottom.

Continue reading the main story “Start Quote

They were very, very smart, but not quite in the same league as Homo Sapiens. That difference might have been enough to tip the balance when things were beginning to get tough at the end of the last ice ageâ€

Prof Robin Dunbar Oxford University

Although this seems like a small amount, she said that it was enough for Neanderthals to use significantly more of their brains to process visual information.

"Since Neanderthals evolved at higher latitudes, more of the Neanderthal brain would have been dedicated to vision and body control, leaving less brain to deal with other functions like social networking," she told BBC News.

This is a view backed by Prof Chris Stringer, who was also involved in the research and is an expert in human origins at the Natural History Museum in London.

"We infer that Neanderthals had a smaller cognitive part of the brain and this would have limited them, including their ability to form larger groups. If you live in a larger group, you need a larger brain in order to process all those extra relationships," he explained.

The Neanderthals' more visually-focused brain structure might also have affected their ability to innovate and to adapt to the ice age that was thought to have contributed to their demise.

Neanderthal wraps

There is archaeological evidence, for example, that the Homo sapiens that coexisted with Neanderthals had needles that they used to make tailored clothing. This would have kept them much warmer than the wraps thought to have been worn by Neanderthals.

Prof Stringer said that all these factors together might have given our species a crucial advantage that enabled us to survive.

"Even if you had a small percent better ability to react quickly, to rely on your neighbours to help you survive and to pass on information - all these things together gave the edge to Homo sapiens over Neanderthals, and that may have made a difference to survival."

Neanderthals were close evolutionary cousins of our own species, Homo sapiens

The finding runs counter to the idea that Neanderthals were not the stupid, brutish creatures portrayed in Hollywood films; they may well have been as intelligent as our species.

Oxford University's Prof Robin Dunbar, who supervised the study, said that the team wanted to avoid restoring the stereotypical image of Neanderthals.

"They were very, very smart, but not quite in the same league as Homo sapiens," he told BBC News.

"That difference might have been enough to tip the balance when things were beginning to get tough at the end of the last ice age," he said.

Up until now, researchers' knowledge of Neanderthals' brains has been based on casts of skulls. This has given an indication of brain size and structure, but has not given any real indication of how the Neanderthal brain functioned differently from ours. The latest study is an imaginative approach in trying to address this issue.

Previous research by Ms Pearce has shown that modern humans living at higher latitudes evolved bigger vision areas in the brain to cope with lower light levels. There is no suggestion though that their higher cognitive abilities suffered as a consequence.

Studies on primates have hown that eye size is proportional to the amount of brain space devoted to visual processing. So the researchers made the assumption that this would be true of Neanderthals.  http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-21759233

 

 

Just another viewpoint....the picture of the 'thal doesn't seem to capture the bigger eyes though....

Edited May 26, 2014 by clubbedfoot

[Guest Stan Norton]

^Bingo. They were a human species. Quite capable of highly complex thought and behaviour. Not brutish. Not stupid. Very smart indeed. Just most likely out-thought by the invader from the south.

[southernyahoo]

The science of forensic cranial reconstruction is so much more than guesswork. It's educated, no highly educated work based on decades of careful precise studies of bones, musculature, flesh and skin and their interrelationships. We know, for a fact, that Homo neandertalensis is our closest relative: it is therefore perfectly logical and scientific to use measurements from countless studies on us to inform studies of their physiology. To deny otherwise is just plain daft.

 

My view includes this but also holds that the knowledge gained works both ways. For instance, if my current avitar represents what a bigfoot looks like, then we would not find a gorilla or chimp underneath it's skin. I do not think we can guess how hairy they were or the exact color of their skin. The article posted up thread seems to say that Neanderthals are thought to have worn wraps of animal skin. Is there any actual evidence they wore anything as clothing? I've heard they've been found buried with certain items that would indicate ceremony but nothing of manufactured clothing.

[Guest]

Wow. Where to start. Again, you demonstrate that you literally have no idea what you are talking about. I would take a university researcher or college boy over incoherent rambling every time.

Cro-Magnon writing?? Eh? Do some more reading prof. And one would think that such a self-proclaimed expert would take the trouble to spell the term correctly wouldn't one?

Millions of articles (do you mean weird internet articles?) demonstrate your theory that Neanderthals were brute animals? Again, wrong. Just factually incorrect.

I think Norse had it right. There seems little point in arguing with someone so wilfully ill informed on the topic.

Lets be clear here. What I have stated is backed up and has been for YEARS, decades. This thread is over, there is no argument here. Wag has won the discussion, although I was doing it off the top of my head, there is endless correlating data, all the information you need I have allocated here to the best of my ability.

 

THERE IS NO QUESTION, NO PROOF, NO INFORMATION THAT STATES NEANDERTHAL WAS THE SAME AS MODERN HUMANS. NONE, NADA, NUNCA, NO-CHIZE. I'VE ALREADY STATED WHO THE UNDERGRAD CLOWN IS BASED ON HIS TOTAL INCOMPETENCE. I

 

I see no one defending him and his illustrious career, because he has none.

 

They can cast molds of the brain-cases, this was done scientifically, I don't understand the incessant moronic babble going on. 

 

If you want to say Neanderthal was 'equal' to modern humans, SHOW US SOME PROOF.

 

This is not a mystery, this is called science, and this thread should contain a few dozen apologies to me for all the nonsense I had to go through. Yet I see none.

 

 

Wow, so the Royal College of Anthropology or whatever, where you have to have a real brain, not the undergrad clown from Boulder, Colorado, has no value now? Where is your research to show these people are clowns? I see nothing but knee-jerk reactionary babble.

 

And a clown from CU Boulder, Clown school of Colorado, has relevance to this PROVEN NONSENSICAL ARGUMENT?

 

That merely shows self-proclaimed ignorance.

 

Weird internet articles? No

 

Based on this thing called SCIENTIFIC METHOD, they have studied the obvious differences in the moronic Neanderthal brain, and like it or not, AS I HAVE STATED, concluded the same information.

 

If you wish to ignore the scientific method, and anthropological experts, that is up to you.

 

so lets be clear again.

 

WAG HAS ONE THE ARGUMENT, UNTIL YOU PROVIDE SOME SORT OF DATA INDICATING NEANDERTHAL WAS MAGICALLY SOMEHOW THE EQUAL OF CROW-MAGNON MAN.

 

THERE IS NONE, ALL THE DATA SHOWS HE WAS A MORONIC BRUTE WITHOUT THE ABILTY FOR WRITTEN LANGUAGE AND HIGHER ABSTRACT THINKING.

 

The article clearly states that Neanderthal engaged in CLOSE QUARTER KILLING, which is BRUTISH AND VERY DANGEROUS, AND DID NOT INVENT SPEAR THROWING DEVICES, BOWS AND ARROWS, NOTHING, BUT CLOSE-QUARTER KILLING, MEANING THEY WERE IN COMPARISON, TOTAL ABSOLUTE MORONS.

 

Now, $20.00 bucks for this.

 

Neanderthal equal to modern humans is the same as believing in Unicorns, I know some people are into that, but Im not making allowances for nonsense in this thread, sorry.

Edited May 27, 2014 by AaronD
reduced font size

[Incorrigible1]

Larger fonts, please. You've not won any discussion without larger fonts.

[norseman]

I heard reported that Cro magnons painted really really big cave murals..........