Want To Take Pictures On Our National Forests?

[LeafTalker]

That's a good point. I bet you're right. 

[Guest]

lightheart -  I may be out in left field....but I have concerns about actions like closing off sections of our Nat'l Parks or Forests, for example, or restrictions like this "permit" thing

for commercial  photo/video endeavors . I guess because of my distrust of policies that can exclude human encroachment into - or harmless activities within.... public lands. I'm wondering if these types of control would be implemented because of any Biosphere Reserve status (for any one or many of them)

 

I may be mistaken,...but if I correctly recall some of the description of how a Biosphere Reserve can potentially be managed....(e.g. - creating a designated "core" - within which only minimal human interference/interaction is permitted)...and I think this may include allowing the potential for virtually zero public access. I think I remember that such a "core" would possibly have a "buffer" zone around that where some human activity is allowed - and that buffer would be enveloped by an area where "human use" would be allowed (can't remember what that area would be called) - all of these zones within a Bio-Res. - each individual Biosphere being managed by it's own "manager" -for example, maybe the Nat'l Forestry Service.

 

I understand protecting delicate ecosystems and accept the need for them, but when the "manager" starts painting with a broad brush to the extent of prohibiting photographs/videos being taken....in any public Nat'l. forest, park, preserve (and I believe most of our significant Nat'l Parks/Forests are designated Bio-Reserves)....I find this measure to be suspicious, yes.

 

   Again, if I'm not mistaken,....I believe that the agency/entity in charge of management of a Biosphere Reserve....can designate the location and/or size of such a "core" within a Bio-Res.....and potentially can even dis-allow public encroachment.  When I hear of this kind of restrictions implemented within OUR public lands....it makes me think about things like this.  wish I didn't believe they're grounds for concern.  My comment was a reflection of my disappointment with bureaucracy

 

     BTW- interesting that the "Land Between the Lakes" area is a designated Biosphere Reserve with an established "core" where, I guess, maybe only minimal human exposure is allowed. Need to look at that closer....     

Edited September 28, 2014 by HairyWildMan

[Guest lightheart]

Hairy Wild Man, I appreciate your taking the time to provide such a thoughtful answer. I find the idea of any wilderness areas that are public lands being off limits to the people very worrisome. The parks have been promoted as our national treasure which indeed they are. I feel like I may want to do some more reading on this subject.

[sheri]

Hairyman there are 44 biosphere reserves that I know of. All of our national forests are part of this under UNESCO. The UN controls what we can and cannot do with our forests.

[Guest]

Hi lightheart and Sheri,

 

It would be a an ideal method to provide protection for any species that needed it.  I'm just concerned about something simple like photo/video 's of any of our natural wonders...... needing permits ...at ANY level...amateur or professional...but I don't know enough about it yet.Also, if, in fact, any one of these biospheres can be isolated from humanity, that's a disturbing thought...I'd like to know why....of course. 

 

Re: the "UN control" ...I think technically,..the arrangement is by treaty among participating nations, each one being responsible for its own treasures of the world. 

 

Been a while since I last did any serious read on anything about the Bio/Res...not up-to-date and my memory is not as trustworthy as my dogs...but I recommend that one check it out...interesting,...what's been put in place.

 

I think there's only a few of our BioR's that have that arrangement of having a "core" area protected - minimal human intrusion. I'd like to think that that's a good thing for those particular situations....and deeper investigation would hopefully provide confirmation.  Still need to do more reading...my schedule as of late has not been co-operative.

 

     I had a thought.....what would Ansel Adams have done if told that he had to get a permit to take any "pictures"

[Guest]

I suspect that there will be a time when human intrusion will be forbidden at some number of "bio-spheres"...yet to be determined. 

There already are a few places that are off-limits to the average person and one needs special permits to go. Usually just environmental scientists. Usually involving very endangered species and ecosystems I believe. While it is really nice to visit some beautiful places, humans are not the best visitors. Littering and fire hazards, traffic jams and even diseases and other non-native species can destroy some places.

What makes you think this Hairy Man?

I think that would be very sad. Humans that learn to appreciate wild areas and all that lives there make better stewards of the planet overall.

Unfortunately, I seldom see humans learning anything when I'm in a park. They have to be guided to it and they still won't learn anything they don't want to learn. At least most adults are that way. But you can't really let children run amok in some places either lol. I know my brothers and I spent a lot of time running amok in the woods and we did learn things about nature and learned to appreciate it more than my mother who didn't like snakes and turtles showing up in the house lol. Whenever I find trash by the side of the road or in the woods I pick it up and take it home. But it got there somehow. I think educating the public is vital but I don't think one has to go in the woods to learn to appreciate the woods.

Hairywildman, I see after reading the rest of the thread you know all this and apparently better than I do. Feel free to disregard : )

[Guest]

Hi antfoot -  I choose to hold your comments in high regard......your comment about picking up trash along the road tells me a lot about you. I do the same thing....like most anyone who has a true love and appreciation for our natural resources/environments. Living within our "throw-away society" is disheartening at times....for me.

 

I understand and agree with your observations about how so many people seem to be, or are just outright,.. lacking the education, the interest/appreciation, the sense of  responsibility needed to qualify as a "care-taker" and defender of our heritage(s), our country and all its natural wonders. Unfortunately,...in my opinion,....our upcoming generations currently seem to be obsessed with self-gratification....or "virtual" stimulation of some form...and I believe they've been subliminally "guided"  into that mind set...if not directly.  I'd say the true "changes" we've come to realize within our society....have been  cause for concern. I must admit that the generations before these younger ones....are, at least partially, responsible for some of that.( I'm speaking in general terms...not intending to say EVERYONE is formed this way) 

 

    We need protection....from ourselves(as a society).....granted,...I understand, and apparently, so do our natural resources/environments. That includes the yet-to-be-proven

hairy wild men/women/children of the world. Being as independent as I am,....I can't suppress my resentment of bureaucratic saturation....my suspicions about the validity or necessity of it.

 

I understand your comment about not needing to go into the woods in order to learn to appreciate them.....but firmly believe that the education one obtains by being "part of it" is valuable.  Guess I'm suffering from the same curse of every generation.....lamentation of the fading to disappearance of "what was" and and apprehension of "what's to come".......makes me want to submerge into the wilderness and beat on my chest like a hairy wild man....come what may!    

 

   
 

[Sunflower]

You and I can take all the pictures we'd like to take..........

 

This concerns movie production companies and commercial companies and I understand why.   If you have concerns and questions, please use the comment section mentioned above.  We all have a say so instead of spreading nonsense let's use our heads instead.

[SWWASAS]

Is this forum commercial?   They take money to access certain features.    So it could be argued that this is a commercial enterprise and any photograph I take in national forests and publish here would be subject to the commercial photography restriction.   How about Facebook?   It is certainly commercial; are photo's published there, considered commercial?     I don't know if they would go after me since I did not get any income from the picture or they would go after the forum.     But as far as I am concerned Sunflower, any photograph I take is my intellectual property and the government has no business telling me what I can do with it, including selling it unless it is something illegal like pornography.    

[Guest]

"...spreading nonsense"...........hmmm, well, Sunflower,...I suggest you read the comments of Gabe Rottman, Lesgislative Counsel, ACLU Washington Legislative Office (as suggested by Redbone - I think post#13)...and perhaps you may get a better understanding of what myself and other possible nonsensical posters here have issue with. If you think what Mr. Rottman has to say is nonsense.....then look up the meaning of "naïve"

[Sunflower]

I will apologize for that comment above.  I should have said without knowing the full and complete story.  There is more to this but just an example of how humans destroy the things that other humans cherish........

 

There was a beautiful spot down the road from my old place.  It was off the main road and down a dirt road. It was one of the most amazing outcroppings in the area.  Photographers would take their clients for photo ops, even back then, and leave all types of trash.  From cigarette butts to bottles, cans, polaroid camera chemical laden papers, and the list could on forever.  I was appalled when I went there with my brothers and sister to show them this gorgeous place and found a frickin' trash heap that looked more like a dump site. 

 

I decided to clean it up and if someone wanted to be shown where it was they were asked if they would help clean it when we got there.  The tire ruts were so deep from people driving four wheelers and 4wd pickups into the area during flooding events, you could fit a family of four into them.

 

Trees were damaged, graffiti, plastic, etc.  My heart was broken that humans could be so ________ you fill in the blank here.......

 

After that it was fenced up with barbed wire and no more cars or humans could enter.  They (those with no respect) ruined it for the rest of us.

 

Movie companies come in with lots of people, leave trash, disturb the ground, etc....I'm sure you can imagine what else goes on and so this is the "problem" I believe.  There's more, but I've got to go now.  Sorry for being so touchy about this but I've seen it with my own eyes.

[SWWASAS]

Sunflower I hate to see places trashed too.    But requiring a permit is not going to prevent it unless the rules that already exist about trashing the forest are enforced.    Rather than deal with the problem the government is effectively doing what happened in your area with the barbed wire and trying to prevent everyone from using the forest.    Up here they dig a series of 4 foot deep ditches across roads, pile logs and rocks in heaps to keep people out.    If trashing places are the problem for movies, they should require a permit, and a bond they loose if they trash a place.   I just don't like the punish everyone mentality that exists with government agencies.

[Hairy Man]

This policy applies to commercial photos and films taken in Congressionally designated wilderness - it does not apply to recreational use or to websites such as the BFF or Facebook. All commercial use has always required a permit to operate on Federal lands - that's not new - it's been the policy for more than 30 years. This just specifically addresses such use in wilderness areas.

[Cotter]

What if a recreationally taken photo then gets used commercially later?

What is the criteria used to determine the commercialability (LOL!) of a photo being taken by a photographer?

[SWWASAS]

Good questions Cotter.    I wonder if the video I have taken from my airplane over wilderness areas will get me in trouble if I ever use it.     Do you know that flight altitudes over such areas is restricted too?   Some of the wilderness areas in Skamania county are puzzling.    From the air some of these areas are very unremarkable when nearby areas are a lot more interesting.   The lack of roads is not the reason either.   I just cannot figure out why some areas are designated wilderness and why some are not.