What's The Deal With Skeptics?

[MIB]

Plussed for well-proclaimed truth. Constant babble doesn't make one's point.

 

Yet somehow constant snark does?    Pot, meet kettle.

 

MIB

[Incorrigible1]

MIB, you seem to take any contention to research, perhaps yours, as a personal affront. Why such personal infliction?

 

You've not been attacked, nor your own research. Yet you seem particularly incensed.

 

I've taken exception to DWA and his phony issues, it's true. He's remarkably able to discern truth in the myriad reports he's read, or so he purports. If that is, as you describe, snark, so be it.

[MIB]

Truth?  In the time I've been here I haven't seen you add anything to a conversation, all I see is your snarky one line quips and comments taking away, distracting and derailing topics ... ending discussions I would like to see continue because I might learn something.   Are you here for any reason other than to stroke your ego by intellectually bullying others?  That's a serious question, not the insult it probably looks like.

 

I'm trying to solve the puzzle, not just talk about it as a form of entertainment.   I don't care about your faux-intellectual wrangling.   I want to hear from the witnesses.   Y' know what?   Some are indeed full of crap.   My ego is not wrapped up in abusing people just because I don't believe them.    I listen, I judge, I move on.  Nowhere on that list is pronouncing my judgment. 

 

Maybe I don't belong here.  Folks here have chased most of the witnesses off and gagged the rest.  If you think about it, without the witnesses, a bigfoot discussion is pretty much a mental masturbation exercise.  That's not what I came here for.

 

People wonder why BF hasn't been proven.   The conduct right here on BFF illustrates the answer.   Ego ahead of understanding.

 

MIB

[Guest DWA]

^^^^[rimSHOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]

 

Anyone who can't sit at the grownup table here...well, go off and find a giant unreal bird then go try to convince a habituator, and get laughed at.  Finally you'd be adding something!  Chuckles count.

Edited October 19, 2014 by DWA

[David NC]

Thermalman do you have any other pics of the track, maybe from a different angle?

[SWWASAS]

If MIB leaves then the skeptics have scored another victory. One by one legitimate researchers get tired of the crap and leave. Is that the chronic skeptic tactic? Silence those that contribute evidence? Note to administrators: That sort of thing will kill this website. I can see that people are becoming reluctant to post experiences because they get pounced on by the skeptics. Much of what happens in the field does not lend itself to being provable. Provable or not I want to hear what others experience.

[Cotter]

It is a tactic I've seen employed numerous times.

 

[Guest DWA]

Yeah, the constant grilling of the latest story simply isn't a kosher intellectual practice.  But it is, indeed, the backbone of bigfoot skepticism.  The big picture is looking over their shoulder, preparing to zap them with infrasound or woodknock them over the head; and they're crouched over One Guy Adding to the Pile yelling:  my extensive experience shielding myself from information smells a RAT...!!!!!!

If MIB leaves then the skeptics have scored another victory. One by one legitimate researchers get tired of the crap and leave. Is that the chronic skeptic tactic? Silence those that contribute evidence? Note to administrators: That sort of thing will kill this website. I can see that people are becoming reluctant to post experiences because they get pounced on by the skeptics. Much of what happens in the field does not lend itself to being provable. Provable or not I want to hear what others experience.

I sure hope MIB isn't leaving after one of the best posts I have read here (a conclusive slam dunk response to the OP it is.  That's what's up with bigfoot skeptics).

 

Not sure I have ever seen anything sillier than 'not having been there nor knowing anything about this, you are wrong and this is why....!'

Edited October 20, 2014 by DWA

[Guest Crowlogic]

 

 

Maybe I don't belong here.  Folks here have chased most of the witnesses off and gagged the rest.  If you think about it, without the witnesses, a bigfoot discussion is pretty much a mental masturbation exercise.  That's not what I came here for.

 

People wonder why BF hasn't been proven.   The conduct right here on BFF illustrates the answer.   Ego ahead of understanding.

 

MIB

A bit of history and perspective will go a long way towards understanding the current climate here.  We are on the new BBF.  The old BBF was deactivated several years ago.  It was a very different place and one where the range of questioning and ideas was quite broad.  I don't think the new BBF has ever reached the number of members that the old one had.  Also the old one was an open forum there were no paid memberships and all information was freely available to all.  I consider the last two years of the old BBF to have represented the twilight of the golden age of Bigfoot interest.

 

A couple of things happened to change the course of things.  One was a certain well known national hoax and one lesser known hoax that was circulating at the same time.  After those two hoaxes many folks packed up and left and the one's that stayed were sobered by the experience.  But it was the national hoax that opened the flood gates for what has become the independent Bigfoot researcher boom that now floods places like you tube.  Was a time when Bigfoot on you tube was the PGF,  old documentaries and comical tongue in cheek videos. 

 

The new order in the Bigfoot game is far more mercenary and perhaps there is the crux as to why those retaining an interest are somewhat more hardened.  The game has ratcheted up a great deal but the delivery of the animal is as ever not forthcoming.

 

This is why there are less free passes given to evidence and evidence presenters.

[SWWASAS]

Speaking of skeptics, believers are not marching lock step either. I attended a conference yesterday where Thom Powell was the speaker. In the audience was Cliff B and a couple of other book authors. Not surprisingly Thom took a couple of verbal shots at Cliff, and mentioned Meldrum a couple of times. The longer the presentation went the angrier I got. Some of the discussion was about experiences that I had myself but who would know. You walk through an audience like that and hear people talking to each other about their experiences. In that room was probably enough BF experience to fill several books. No one is compiling it. No one seems to care. Seemingly once you write a book, you isolate yourself. Of the people I have mentioned here only one has ever responded to an email. That was Thom. I know they probably get hundreds a day but someone might have experienced or have evidence of something very important. Someone may have a HD video better than the PG film but have no idea how to contact anyone. If they had tried, they likely would have been ignored. How would any of these well known people know about it if their most used tool is the delete button.

Data base gatherers have filters based on their own beliefs. If they are not into paranormal BF, but the report is, they toss the report. I seem to be on some BFRO black list for some reason unknown to me. If a data base gatherer are big ape, they toss primal people reports. So much of the field experience, anecdotal evidence, and physical evidence is never compiled or available for researchers. Come to BFF to report findings and you get pounced on by skeptics. No wonder proof of existence or knowledge of BF never seems to get anywhere. As you can probably tell I am still angry.

[dmaker]

This thread is about skeptics, do you seriously expect us not to participate? 

If MIB leaves then the skeptics have scored another victory. One by one legitimate researchers get tired of the crap and leave. Is that the chronic skeptic tactic? Silence those that contribute evidence? Note to administrators: That sort of thing will kill this website. I can see that people are becoming reluctant to post experiences because they get pounced on by the skeptics. Much of what happens in the field does not lend itself to being provable. Provable or not I want to hear what others experience.

Who is contributing evidence? Skepticism can be satisfied with evidence. Good evidence.  Why doesn't someone bring something that can withstand the withering gaze of skeptical scrutiny? 

 

Now that would be a change.

Edited October 21, 2014 by dmaker

[See-Te-Cah NC]

Truth?  In the time I've been here I haven't seen you add anything to a conversation, all I see is your snarky one line quips and comments taking away, distracting and derailing topics ... ending discussions I would like to see continue because I might learn something.   Are you here for any reason other than to stroke your ego by intellectually bullying others?  That's a serious question, not the insult it probably looks like.

 

He's here because he, like you, has an interest in the topic. He doesn't have the power to end discussions, either - Only weak, little, or no evidence to back up these "discussions" can do that. 

 

Skeptics and skeptical proponents would like to learn something, too. Yet all we ever get are claims of bullying and being big ol' meanie heads because we just don't buy any and all of the claims made on this forum. Sorry, but even proponents shouldn't do that.

 

I'm trying to solve the puzzle, not just talk about it as a form of entertainment.   I don't care about your faux-intellectual wrangling.   I want to hear from the witnesses.   Y' know what?   Some are indeed full of crap.   My ego is not wrapped up in abusing people just because I don't believe them.    I listen, I judge, I move on.  Nowhere on that list is pronouncing my judgment. 

 

Fair enough, but isn't presenting extraordinary claims without extraordinary evidence faux-intellectual wrangling? Why wouldn't judgement be pronounced on grandiose claims with only the word of the claimant as the linchpin of the report? Some lap it up, while others are fence-sitters. Still others are wanting to see some evidence to go along with the claims made.

 

Maybe I don't belong here.  Folks here have chased most of the witnesses off and gagged the rest.  If you think about it, without the witnesses, a bigfoot discussion is pretty much a mental masturbation exercise.  That's not what I came here for.

 

Maybe you don't belong here if you're not willing to abide by - and witness others - providing extraordinary claims without a shred of evidence. Using those standards, the Big Bad Wolf really did blow the Three Little Pig's houses down. If you want to discuss mental masturbation, let's discuss claims of some proponents that are so outlandish that anyone with a single brain cell would question those claims. It gets old.

 

What chases people away and gags them is that everyone doesn't believe what they claim, and I don't blame them. I wouldn't want to post or participate if I was being asked question about my claims, but couldn't, or wouldn't, provide evidence to accompany them. Heck, I'd be embarrassed to tell some of the claims I've seen on here. We have folks on the BFF that have claimed all kinds of interactions and encounters, yet nary a shred of evidence... EVER... NEVER, and when someone has the gall to ask for evidence, we get the "I don't have to prove anything because I've proven it to/for myself," or the dreaded claim that those asking the questions are being mean. Have you all ever thought about the fact that if some evidence were to accompany those claims you might not be asked the questions?

 

Seriously - Maybe the questions and comments come because the skeptical are frustrated by the never-ending claims and never present evidence. It's not one sided, you know.

 

I hear about how the skeptics are running off folks from the forum from one side, and how the "woo" factor is driving away serious researchers. So, I guess the proponents are responsible for running folks off, too.

 

People wonder why BF hasn't been proven.   The conduct right here on BFF illustrates the answer.   Ego ahead of understanding.

 

No, Bigfoot has not been proven because evidence hasn't been presented to prove its existence. That's a fact, no matter what you believe, and no amount of insinuation toward those that are skeptical will change that. 

 

Please address the conduct of those making constant extraordinary claims without offering a shred of evidence.

 

Skepticism isn't ego. Failure to address the skepticism and getting all puffy because someone doesn't buy the bridge is ego, IMO. Admittedly, it frustrates me, too, and I'm a proponent!

 

MIB

[See-Te-Cah NC]

If MIB leaves then the skeptics have scored another victory. One by one legitimate researchers get tired of the crap and leave. Is that the chronic skeptic tactic? Silence those that contribute evidence? Note to administrators: That sort of thing will kill this website. I can see that people are becoming reluctant to post experiences because they get pounced on by the skeptics. Much of what happens in the field does not lend itself to being provable. Provable or not I want to hear what others experience.

 

Victory? How so?

 

Legitimate researchers making claims should be able to provide evidence and shut up the chronic skeptics, no? A true victory would be for those making grandiose claims to provide compelling evidence to shut up the skeptical once and for all. All we hear is crickets insofar as evidence, but the stories are good, I suppose.

 

Maybe those becoming reluctant to post their experiences are getting wise to the fact that not everyone will buy their story without evidence, will ask uncomfortable questions about the claims, and will become frustratingly persistent when those making the claims cop out by not providing answers, and deflecting from their lack of evidence by calling the skeptics "Meanies."

 

Provable or not, all are welcome to post their experiences. While not provable, they can be good reads. While not provable, is a bit of evidence too much to ask for?

 

A note to the membership - We will not moderate whether a claim is true or not. We moderate member interaction, not truth. We also allow you to make any claims you'd like, but you won't be protected because someone doesn't believe you, or wants evidence.

[salubrious]

I'm on the fence about the 'extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence' thing.  As humans we assign meaning to things- what is ordinary to one person might be extraordinary to another. I suspect as a result the claims simply require evidence to be supported.

 

In addition, I have probably assassinated my character by claiming that I had an experience. Or not. I find that some people are supportive and interested- want to hear more- and others write the whole thing off as a joke.

 

I also know why evidence is so hard to come by: I sat in my truck's driver seat and looked at a BF that was no more than about 10 feet from me at the time. Its arms were bigger around and obviously more powerful than my legs and its legs were about as big around as my torso. Its appearance spoke of immense physical strength. Because of that, I did not want to take my eyes off of it. I felt relatively safe in the truck, but only because at any instance I could floor the gas and be gone. I did not feel comfortable taking a photo because it meant getting the camera on the same side of the glass as the creature itself, and it also meant taking my eyes off of it.

 

I suspect many people have been in similar situations. With the current situation (BF = career suicide) its not likely there will ever be any truly serious research on the subject. So we should be prepared for the status quo for a long time!

[sheri]

That's what most skeptic's don't understand. It isn't like your in a zoo taking pictures of the animals. These are living creatures who are huge, fast and I don't care what anyone says, they are not lovable and fluffy. It's frightening. They are extremely fast and i'm assuming super strong, especially since their bigger than gorilla's. I haven't had another sighting since the one I had. But then I'm not out there looking all the time. It doesn't consume my life. I would love to see another one, yet at the same time I don't. Fear is why. Fear and astonishment is why there aren't decent pictures. It's the last thing on your mind. You have to have that encounter to understand.