hiflier Posted October 22, 2014 Author Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Hello sheri, Thank you for your compliment. You should also know the pins and needles I was on during the research phase. Not to mention the stress of bringing it here. It wasn't a cakewalk and it's not all that enjoyable. I'm not gloating here; It's been rather upsetting truth be known. And you're right, I was being harsh with DWA but only to make a point. We all read reports. He talks as if we don't. But along the way where possible I try to vet them too. That to me is an important phase of understanding the nature of the reports. I'm not going to show up on some person's doorstep to see if they were truthful. This thread was about someone very much in the public eye though and the internet allowed for a more in-depth look because of that notoriety. Believe me it really was all about the hair samples at first and the possibility of them getting to Meldrum for analysis. I am a proponent after all. And here was an investigator who had some along with a video interview of the witnesses. I thought that was a good sign. The rest of it is history. The rest of it also became unpalatable. During the process I kept looking for the turn around. The thing that would say everything has been corrected. It never happened. Yeah, it was a pretty sad exercise. And as far as all the speakers being hoaxers? Doubt it. But I think that they closed ranks to protect themselves and their venues. Doesn't mean they're hoaxers. But one within their midst was. Edited October 22, 2014 by hiflier
Kiwakwe Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 This Keating character and possibly a bad pizza cost us a probable sighting, no apologies accepted, lynch him!!
sheri Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Well, it was good work. I'm sure it wasn't easy bringing out what you learned. I have learned not to follow anyone. I take bits and pieces from different people, but don't treat it as fact, and learn as I go. No one is an expert. Everyone is learning. People put faith in other's when they shouldn't.
hiflier Posted October 22, 2014 Author Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Hello Kiwakwe, Oh IDK, I thought the pizza was pretty good. The Keating thing was however the deciding distraction. And right No BF. P.S. No BF on the weekend of the 10/3 either. Had fun with my sons though. Talk later. Hello sheri, Wise words to be sure. Something we can all take away from this. I've appreciated your comments here just so you know as I'm not perfect and you gave me cause to reassess some things. I hope someday I'll be able to return the favor. Maybe I'll look you up for help on the next investigation? Peace. Edited October 22, 2014 by hiflier
sheri Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Thank you hiflier, no one is perfect and sometimes i need a tap on the shoulder and a hey, no actually sometimes i need a good shove and a loud HEY. LOL I can be stubborn.
salubrious Posted October 22, 2014 Moderator Posted October 22, 2014 Innit great? Uncover a hoaxer and we can still be friends...
hiflier Posted October 22, 2014 Author Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Hello salubrious, Indeed it is. And it's a good feeling too. I'll bury the hatchet with DWA also if he wishes. You know the BFF has it's ups and downs. Pros and cons clash and disengage only to clash later. But in the end we all have a good sense of each other and in a way know what to expect. That's called Community. We welcome new members into the field and hopefully even with a not so good first impression demonstrate that the goal is the same: Solve the case. Along the way maybe right some wrongs and wrong-doing, but always discover something of ourselves. I like it here. I like all the members here. Sometimes I get exasperated with unswerving mindsets but in the long run we're still all striving for the same thing. I'd like to thank the Mods and Admin for allowing this thread to run on the General Forum. I think everyone showed good decorum for what could have been a rather heated debate. I'd like to say things regarding the subject discussed are settled but there is some unfinished business regarding whether such a thing was completely unknown by some rather high profile figures. That may never be known but I don't think many will walk away from this thread without some doubts about who might have known of Mr. Keating's indiscretions. A hoaxer at that level of a network couldn't have remained undiscovered for long. I can't be sure how deep this goes but I seriously do not think the knowledge of his actions stopped at him only. Too many good investigators and vetters in the upper levels of BFdom for me to think no one else knew. Can't take it any farther without getting myself into some real hot water so probably best to let things stand as they are. Baby steps right? Thank you for wading in here and there and being a part of this. Same goes for everyone else as well Edited October 22, 2014 by hiflier
georgerm Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Hiflier, thanks for making us aware of Keating who was an unknown for me. Dig away but be careful for land mines. You are taking on a valuable task that is important for forum members to know about. There is also a 'slippery slope' to all of this. Keep your spiked 'slope shoes' strapped on. Hundreds of people read this forum, and if Keating believes that you have caused his book sales to drop off guess what? Yes, the word is LIBEL. Slander is spoken and libel is written. He may not be able to prove it, but he can make your life miserable. I'm up on this Libel issue, since recently I've been libeled by a city employee that unfairly criticized my landscape architect practice. My suit would be small since there were only two recipients of his untrue comments. My advise is to know where the libel line stands and stay away from it. We might have some attorneys aboard to answer questions. To suggest hoaxing, with no proof may be libel. Can bigfoot forums also be sued for libel? It doesn't bother you that Dr.Meldrum sells books, casts and whatnot at comic conventions? Good point. One question is does Meldrum hoax? If someone claims he does is this libel and if so, how much will a jury award?
hiflier Posted October 22, 2014 Author Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Hello georgerm, Thank you for that. I considered this before posting I assure you. Sure blindly lashing out with a critical statement written or otherwise might carry risk. In this case though we have Mr. Keating's own words on a vocal record stating the Moon conditions on the night of his "encounter". We also have science and several Moon phase databases that refute his statement. It was after all "The Bigfootery Enquirer" that brought this to light 4 1/2 years ago. My work in bring the info here stemmed from doing a follow up on a report filed by Mr. Keating in 1996 and listed publicly in John Green's database. So all of this was available to the public on the internet and facilitating bringing it here by someone was IMO inevitable. The article on the "The Bigfootery Enquirer's" web site was all that was out there. I'm not accusing Mr. Keating of lying about the Canonsburg, PA family encounters, nor the hair samples, cast and supposed videotape. His response was what motivated me to investigate further. If there was any real damage it was done by The Bigfootery Enquirer" long before I came along. I understand the slippery slope and appreciate the wake up on mistakes that I could make. Good stuff there. On that subject what's the risk in lying to the public? Edited October 22, 2014 by hiflier
Guest DWA Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Dmaker....sure, i suppose. There are degrees of hucksterism though, and he decidedly is on the low end. I have a low gag point for anyone with an "action" pose photo in their press kit. As i said hiflier...that ain't my scene to begin with. Quite the opposite. So, a takedown of a guy like that gets a shrug from me, at the most. Still, nice research. Will you share with us some that you find compelling as well? Yep, a sure-fire indicator of somebody who simply hasn't done the work - or isn't doing the right work - is getting all lathered over one report, no matter what. I've said to people that if the PGF were found to be a hoax tomorrow it would change my opinion of the overall evidence not one bit. This feeling may be a false one, spurred by the virtual certainty - not mine but the statistical scientific virtual certainty - that the PGF is authentic. But I seriously doubt that, and I seriously doubt we'd be anywhere else but here, talking about the evidence, even if the PGF had never happened.
Cotter Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Well, it's libel if it isnt' true. Geogerm, you don't have a case! Your landscaping is TERRIBLE! I hired you to trim my shrubs, and I get home from work and find you doing this?? I ain't payin' for the crane rental!!! :-)
Guest Darrell Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 I cant believe there are proponents here that dont know who Don Keating is. I know who he is. He used to put out some podcasts and such besides his footer-con. Whats funny is that many of you "true believers" know less than us pesky skeptics when it comes down to the nuts and bolts of YOUR own phenomena! I also dont think Mr Green's database of sightings has anything to do with applied science so not sure why its in that sub forum. Such are the mysteries of the BFF. Hiflier, good catch on the moon phase and other small details. IMO the reason there isnt any true investigative work done on the individuals making many of the sighting reports is that when you start getting to the foundations of the interview, you find inconsistant facts and poor interviewing skills, and when all you can base your belief system on is sighting reports nobody wants to subject them to true analysis.
Guest DWA Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Don Keating is irrelevant. I do not know who he is; and I demonstrably know a lot more about this than any skeptic here. What you 'pesky' skeptics do is focus on a circus, of which Keating is obviously a part. This circus has absolutely zero to do with the evidence, other than distracting the credulous, the unwary, and the uninformed. And if you don't understand how databases and applied science have everything to do with each other, my point raised above, confirmed. Just, you know, sayin'. Edited October 22, 2014 by DWA
Cotter Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 @Darrell - there are knowers that know a ton more than the pesky skeptics. I have a 10 year old nephew that is a 'true believer', it doesn't surprise me he doesn't know Don Keating....not at all. Time to take a step back and realize it takes all sorts of folks to keep this rock a spinnin'. :-)
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