Stillwater And Tennessee Trackers Field Notes

[Guest]

That would be East Tennessee right?

 

I'm sure since I said East Tennessee it is actually West Tennessee.

 

Dunno. Why didn't you guys beat Mizzou last night and in doing so give this Dawg a bone?

 

Now I have to wait a week and rely on Arkansas.

[slabdog]

Stillwater-

First off, thank you for your dedication to being in the field.

My thoughts~

The bones-

The cracked open bones are interesting for sure. I did not observe any noticeable bite marks on the bones, the absence of which could indicate that the bones were broken by snapping or twisting force. Although that would seem to indicate the use of hands, I am curious if anyone has observed such bone break in the wild being known to have been performed by known animals.

Some of the bones splinters to appear to have been broken with "a twist".

The abandoned home-

What evidence did you find which led you to conclude that a BF is entering the structure? (If I missed it, I apologize)

The fence-

Admittedly, you were there and I was not, but based on the photos you supplied, I can see no evidence of "brute force" being used to open the fence. Actually, I see evidence to the contrary.

(I am familiar which fences being opened by hand with brute force)

There is not damage to the support bar nor noticeable deformation to the chain links.

There does appear to be a snipped link which would explain how the fence could come clear of the support bar sans deformation to the bar or fence. The bottom half of the chain would simply be pulled downward and out and clear of the support bar.

Notice the links all appear to be generally at a right angle, which likely would not be the case if brute force had been applied.

---------

Next time you go, check to see if the copper or other metals have been pillaged from the home.

If so, a burglar is likely your fence breaking / trespassing culprit.

( not that there isn't BF round those parts)

Not to mention, knuckle / finger marks / ground disturbance near the open fence could be the result of crawling human intruders making their entrance or exit.

[Guest]

Slabdog:

I fully appreciate your kind words at the beginning of your post before ripping apart our work. I do agree with one of your points, I was there and you weren't.

I have been associated with farming my whole life, built many miles of fences and dealt with repairing many fences large animals (cows) have torn down. I realize I'm grossly unqualified when it comes to knowledge of fences. 😉

I got a really good laugh from your burglar theory! 😆

A piece of advice, before making judgement by just looking at a couple photos, try asking a few good questions first.

Here's a couple to start:

1. Are there any other access points, such as a gate, where entrance to the site could be gained?

2.Where there any trails leading to and from where the fence was destroyed?

3.Where did the trails lead back to? A road? The woods?

4.How old is the house? Does it have indoor plumbing?

Just trying to be helpful. 😉

[chelefoot]

That would be East Tennessee right?

 

I'm sure since I said East Tennessee it is actually West Tennessee.

 

Dunno. Why didn't you guys beat Mizzou last night and in doing so give this Dawg a bone?

 

Now I have to wait a week and rely on Arkansas.

I am in East TN. Knoxville (in the county, not the city)

 

They are investigating in West TN. The other TN.

Yea, that game was a heart-breaker, for sure.

[ohiobill]

Hi Stillwater,
 
I'm not sure how many miles of chainlink fence you have on your farm but I agree with slabdog and also think you are mistaken about the use of brute force to break the fence. I can't tell what gauge of fence it is but you are likely talking about 3300N - 9600N of force to break the wire in a tensile test. Considering the lack of damage to the tension bar and post the force would have to be applied locally to the wire only as the tension bars are fairly easy to bend even by humans. I have trouble imagining a creature able to apply this amount of force in such a confined area without any other evidence of damage and without the use of tools. It's impossible for me to see any thinning of the wire, which would be expected if the wire was pulled apart, but that could just be the image resolution. Obviously, a fatigue fracture is possible but unlikely in a fence application and really shouldn't be considered without a microscopic examination which would also reveal the presence of tool marks if there. 

 

I believe any creature capable of breaking/cutting the wire in one spot and then unweaving the remainder from the tension bar without damage would have the necessary ability to utilize a gate if desired. Look around most cities and industrial areas with a lot of chain link fencing and you will see countless examples of breaks in chain link fences created and utilized by people to get around even with gates nearby. 

[Guest]

Ohiobill:

That was a funny remark, but it was a very sarcastic remark, about using chain link fence on our farm. Now I'm going to make this simpler for you to understand, since you jumped on board without asking questions or asking for clarification. Obviously your not understanding my position. By brute force, I meant by hand, no tools, the act of pulling the fence sideways. I believe this creature is smart enough to break a wire in one spot, unravel the fence and pull the fence sideways. I hope I explained myself better. As for the gate, which no one took the time to ask about, the gate was wide open, big enough to pull a car in. Why would a person take the time to unravel a fence when the gate was wide open? Thanks for proving my point on that one. Now, neither one of you have addressed the 3rd picture of the break in the fence, the one that doesn't have anything to do with a corner post. Waiting on your response on the unaddressed photo, without a condesending sarcastic tone this time.

Making me rethink posting our field work in the future. What's the point in sharing. Instead of asking questions, asking for clarification and then forming an opinion, I guess it's easier to form a quick opinion so as to look like the smartest person in the room. It's no wonder people don't share their work. I know I'm reevaluating it.

[ohiobill]

Stillwater, it wasn't meant to be funny or sarcastic, just rational conversation. It's easy to insert your own interpretation of "tone" when reading a post. Had I wanted to be condescending I would have agreed that it's obvious that you are "grossly unqualified when it comes to knowledge of fences". Had I wanted to be purposefully sarcastic I would have added that you are also obviously grossly unqualified in what evidence is and pointed out the futility of pointing to a break in a fence as evidence when compared to utilizing your time searching the fence for hair with possible DNA as anyone with miles of farm fence experience would be familiar. Simple enough for you? 

 

 My use of actual measurements consistent with the strength of woven chain link fencing was meant to be taken seriously and considered rather than taken as some sort of attack. Bigfoot isn't ripping chain link apart by hand - wrap your head around the numbers. Better yet, wrap your hands around some woven chain link and try pulling it apart before making claims like this. The weak link in chain link fencing is the aluminum post ties not the steel fence itself. The forces involved would damage surrounding components and leave evidence like bent posts, warped tension bars, broken post ties, damaged top rails, etc. None of the images you posted show anything like this. Check out the machines used in the ASTM testing of the wire itself to get an idea of the forces required. 

 

Why would a person or Sassy choose to avoid a gate? Why would either take the time to unravel a fence with an open gate nearby? Why wouldn't an 8' Sassy just jump the fence like a 5' human jumps a fence? Simple questions that make your analysis weaker, not stronger. 

 

If you want to keep your "field work" images of breaks in chain link fence to yourself feel free or just join Shel the dogman lady on facebook and hold court. Good luck with your search!

[slabdog]

Stillwater-

My feedback and observations were just that. Feedback. Observations.

I would invite you to reread my post but instead insert a neutral tone to my text this time. You hopefully will *read* it differently.

I'm sorry you took offense as that was not my intent.

I assumed you wanted group feedback.

I now understand you do not.

Good luck with your research.

[Guest]

It is often hard to determine *tone* in posts on an internet forum.

 

That's what the emoticons are for.

 

I enjoy the posts and sharing on the forum from those out in the field actually doing legitimate research.

 

But slab and ohiobill are good guys and I don't see anything offensive in their posts.

 

Takes some measure of courage to post your research on an internet forum and I applaud you for doing so.

 

This forum, while not perfect is the best related to the topic I have ran across.

 

Not a *woo* forum, and skeptical inquiry has always been welcomed here.

 

I think it is important to first try and rule out BF in an effort to maintain as high of a level of credibility regarding a subject that seems incredible.

 

You carry yourself well, answer questions, and do some darn fine research.

 

Please keep us updated on future endeavors.

Edited November 25, 2014 by HRPuffnstuff

[Guest]

HRPuffnstuff: Thanks! And that was well said.

Slabdog: I apologize. Sometimes a person gets passionate about their work. I see now you were just being helpful and I acknowledge that human involvement is almost impossible to rule out. Again, I apologize.

OhioBill: Thanks you for your kinds words! I'll be looking forward to your new thread in "In the field", "OhioBill's fieldwork". I above all appreciate your good manners and kind word. Thanks!

[slabdog]

Stillwater-

No problem my friend.

I accept your appology and again thank you for your dedication to being in the field.

As a long time participant here, I have found that methodical, positive group think and a process of non biased skeptical Q and A (as opposed to confrontational scofftic style attacks levied against any and all evidence of BF ) helps great researchers become even better.

(Which I want because I want this dang mystery solved it at all possible )

It brings the most compelling evidence to the top for more serious review and helps cull the data bits which might be less helpful and serve to distract from the best evidence.

As I mentioned previously, I am very interested in the bones you documented and hope others have more information about whether or not such condition has a natural explanation.

[Airdale]

Stillwater1967, I just took a closer look at the third fence photo that you mentioned. Other than having climbed some I’m not an authority on chain link fencing, but that photo shows a section of fencing that appears to have been ripped apart in the center, well away from any other components. I’m using my wife’s laptop in a motel room and don’t have the software to examine the photo closely that I do on my desktop, but what I can see looks like terrific force must have been applied to cause that kind of damage. What is your take on it?

[chelefoot]

Stillwater, I'm so glad that this thread is back on track. Slabdog and OHBill are good guys...just trying to help.

 

Look forward to seeing more.

 

And Airdale can do some awesome things on the computer. Hopefully, he will be able to pull out some details on the fence.

[Guest]

OhioBill: I apologize on my part. I get bullheaded sometimes. I have to admit there's a lot of merit to the analysis of that section of fence made by Slabdog and yourself.  

 

Chelefoot: I have messaged back and forth with Slabdog and I'm glad to have made a new friend. I'm looking forward to getting back on track.

 

Even if the perpetrators who made the opening in that section of the fence by the corner post were humans, it still looks like it's being taken advantage of by something else. The bones were found on the outside of the fence not far from the opening and the tracks in the muddy depression were found straight in about 15 feet through the opening and were on the inside of the fence.     

 

Airdale: My take on that section of fence is pretty much the same as yours. It is pretty interesting. Looking forward to anything you have to add to solve this piece of the puzzle.  

 

Slabdog: Glad to have you as a new friend. By the way, you had asked previously what evidence I had that the abandoned house was being utilized by our big friend. I have no evidence, this is just a theory I had. Any help you can give in how I could go about trying to prove this theory would be greatly appreciated. Like you, I'm looking forward to any information that others can add about the bones. They are very odd. 

 

 

This is a photo of the entrance to our research area back home. I'll make it perfectly clear, I don't believe it is Bigfoot connected in any way. But, the double X's sure make an ominous presence to the entrance to the area.

 

 

[Guest]

Looks like they dont want you in there