Project Grendel Winter Time Tactics Thread

[Guest UPs]

I have snowmobiled a great deal in the area where my property is and prior to my interest in bf, I once came across an unusual trackway that crossed the sledding trail and was parallel to a river. As I drove by them, my mind was thinking how strange it was for a human to walk through such deep snow without snowshoes, but since I had no idea bf could be a living creature, I didn't stop and look closely at them. Once I became interested in bf, when I ran the trails, I kept an eye out for all animal tracks while sledding and discovered in my area almost all trackways were along a river or drainage area. Other than those areas, along packed trails and roads were the only other place I would find evidence of animal activity. On 2 occasions I found carcasses of deer right on a snowmobile trail and were probably the result of wolf kills.

As you are exploring, I would concentrate on areas where animals move in the winter and also from a few reports that I remember reading, high elevations in the winter time. The one thing that has always bothered me is the lack of trackways in areas that the ground is covered in snow during winter. I once counted how many trackways I could count along a highway I drove for about 45mins and the number was well over 100. I did not have time to stop at each one to see what had left the trackway, but it kind of opened my eyes up to the number of animals crossing roads and nobody would stop and look at the trackway unless they saw something very unusual.

[bipedalist]

I can only tell you from my own personal experiences that's where I find bigfoot tracks in the winter.

 

 

i will say that is not the typical average in the PNW which is closer to 1500-2500 with an average prob. closer to 2000 ft. according to some database analyses that I remember.  

 

With seasonality involved I would think colder lower end of range not above higher end.

 

You must have a very remarkably adapted pod you are tracking because they are defying the averages. 

[norseman]

Went for a hike today, woke up to a chinook wind and no snow. Had about four inches at the ranch yesterday at 2500 feet.

So far only seen tracks of Deer and Coyote and some turkey scat.

Cold front will be here tommorow with single digits......apple cup will be cold:(image.jpgimage.jpg

Went for a hike today, woke up to a chinook wind and no snow. Had about four inches at the ranch yesterday at 2500 feet.

So far only seen tracks of Deer and Coyote and some turkey scat.

Cold front will be here tommorow with single digits......apple cup will be cold:(

Edited November 28, 2014 by norseman

[daveedoe]

Norse,

I've always wondered about Bigfoot winter living. From my own experience mostly in the winter, trackway and vocals, were at and below 3500 ft. Both of those were low snow years, at least below 4000 ft here in SW Washington. I have to agree most years there is snow most of the winters starting at around 1500 ft to 2500 ft, drifts lasting until July above 3000 ft

I think depending on the severity of the winter the wintering over locations may change.

 

My thoughts:

Most likely Bigfoot would  winter in the same location every winter within their home range. I would think the location would be a defensive position with a good escape route. The location would most likely be near water and food source.

Both of the locations where I had my experience, were near rock scree hill sides. Rock scree would have a good population of rodents, good protein and a great defensive back cover. Water was near both locations that were spring fed so no worry of freezing, of course here on the west side the winters are milder.   

Just my opinion but a lot of the GPNF does not see very many people during the winter months and that is why the lack of sightings at elevation. Most of the GPNF is below 4000 ft.

[BobbyO]

Here's a heat map of the 60 WA state winter reports that we have.

[hiflier]

Hello All,

Gotta say that Humans by and large would be scarce up high except in ski country or well used sled routes. I don'y think it far fetched to think BF takes to the high ground for a coupla reasons. To intimidate game to go lower might be one. From Norseman's pic It would seem that if they have superior eyesight then they would be able to see more distance and reduce actually syalking prey. Once movement is detected then there will be tracks to follow by alerting perhaps a hunting party of sorts with howls or tree knocks.

The last point is along the lines that sound in a valley travels extremely well without leaf cover even with snowfall so good hearing would be advantageous for an apex predator. It's amazing how much sound reverberates in a canyon or ravine when one is positioned at a higher point. And I agree water would be important even in winter where there not only is a risk of dehydration but animals are warmer when well hydrated. A smart predator also will know where the pinch points in their are from years of experiences and what gets learned from elders?

Edited November 28, 2014 by hiflier

[BobbyO]

Ok so regarding them being at higher elevations in winter, aren't the game generally at lower elevations anyway at that time of year ?

I've been looking at a report today regarding Mule Deer in Chelan County and it seems as if the deer move to lower elevations in the winter for sure (or at least did over the 2 year period that the report was concerning and I'd guess that'd be the case every year), and I know the Elk do all across the State.

I'm struggling to see why Sasquatch would be above the snow line in Winter to be honest.

In Eastern WA the Sasquatch reports go with the game, higher elevations in summer in the main with the lowest elevation reports being in winter.

But that of course is what the humans do too and we all know you need one of them to have a sighting in the first place.

[hiflier]

Hello BobbyO,

I agree if we're talking about a "permanent residence". My thoughts were more about hunting that herd that stays lower. Foraging for ungulates in environments where they don't have to dig in snow is more efficient. But for an apex predator who uses sound and updrafts of relatively warm daytime air to bring scents up from game animals it makes more sense to keep higher. Attacks are faster going downhill and a wider view through trees helps with pursuit angles.

If caves aren't utilized then snow is a great second choice for insulation. Cold air sinks to valleys at night and any warmer air will rise. If BF is a smart one then it knows as do other creatures that a morning hunt would be better from the east if the wind is right. But if hunting from above then wind direction is less of a factor. At least that would make sense to me.

[norseman]

Norse,

I've always wondered about Bigfoot winter living. From my own experience mostly in the winter, trackway and vocals, were at and below 3500 ft. Both of those were low snow years, at least below 4000 ft here in SW Washington. I have to agree most years there is snow most of the winters starting at around 1500 ft to 2500 ft, drifts lasting until July above 3000 ft

I think depending on the severity of the winter the wintering over locations may change.

 

My thoughts:

Most likely Bigfoot would  winter in the same location every winter within their home range. I would think the location would be a defensive position with a good escape route. The location would most likely be near water and food source.

Both of the locations where I had my experience, were near rock scree hill sides. Rock scree would have a good population of rodents, good protein and a great defensive back cover. Water was near both locations that were spring fed so no worry of freezing, of course here on the west side the winters are milder.   

Just my opinion but a lot of the GPNF does not see very many people during the winter months and that is why the lack of sightings at elevation. Most of the GPNF is below 4000 ft.

 

That's very interesting and I know of quite a few talus rock slide areas I could check out on the Colville NF. One such area though is up on Molybdenite mountain and that will be too high in winter, as well as a no access area because of Woodland Caribou. (almost 7000 feet) But some are lower and closer to me, there is one up on Bangs mountain which is a lower foot hill to the Kettle Crest area. And actually very close to one of BobbyO's sightings on his map for Ferry Co.

Hello All,

Gotta say that Humans by and large would be scarce up high except in ski country or well used sled routes. I don'y think it far fetched to think BF takes to the high ground for a coupla reasons. To intimidate game to go lower might be one. From Norseman's pic It would seem that if they have superior eyesight then they would be able to see more distance and reduce actually syalking prey. Once movement is detected then there will be tracks to follow by alerting perhaps a hunting party of sorts with howls or tree knocks.

The last point is along the lines that sound in a valley travels extremely well without leaf cover even with snowfall so good hearing would be advantageous for an apex predator. It's amazing how much sound reverberates in a canyon or ravine when one is positioned at a higher point. And I agree water would be important even in winter where there not only is a risk of dehydration but animals are warmer when well hydrated. A smart predator also will know where the pinch points in their are from years of experiences and what gets learned from elders?

 

Don't know about Maine, but in the Pac NW, snow drives animals down out of the mountains, except for Woodland Caribou and there isn't enough of them here to change much. 

 

Another difference is that we don't have much for hardwoods, so sound is going to travel through our forest at about the same rate, or maybe a little less in winter with all of the snow on the evergreen branches.

 

But are we sure they actively hunt big game during winter? I doubt it, otherwise I would have came across them during my hunting pursuits for Deer and Elk in snow. A scenario like davedoe's theory seems more plausible to me. Or maybe they collect bark, twigs and berries and chew on that all winter.

[daveedoe]

a good field research article, here is a link, it mentions a report of a Bigfoot family looking for rodents.

 

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/biology/hewkin83.htm

[hiflier]

Hello Norseman,

Yeah, I'd have to say that forests of pine and fir would negate the advantage of being able to see at great distance. There's a lot of stands of evergreen in Maine but it's getting to be that the amount of cover that is deciduous is increasing. It's not unusual to see a mountain that has pockets of fir surrounded by large areas of leafless timber. This is the habitat I'm thinking of as I've been writing.

I also think that, as you say, forging for vegetation could be a large part of their diet with meat every now and then. If Woodland Caribou are in high elevations where carcasses are less likely to be found then that sounds like a good reason for BF to be up there. Nature's cycles would be well known one would think. You know, something like, "Hey, it's winter. Time to hit the rock piles and head up country for the day".

[norseman]

I think Caribou in the lower 48 are on their deathbed.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gqDOgX7qUdI

[Trogluddite]

Norse, 

 

Oh, so Operation Futility in New York is just so much hash, huh?  #I joke!

 

I just got my database reconstructed last weekend - 37 of 276 encounters here in New York, Vermont, and MA/CT west of the Connecticut River Valley, since 1971, have occurred during winter months (Dec, Jan, and Feb).    

 

Eight of those are known hoaxes (e.g., police confiscated the 28" stompers used to make the tracks) or highly dubious claims (e.g., bigfoot, armed with a club, chasing a pick-up truck full of teenagers armed with shotguns and hunting bigfoot).  Only 17 of the 29 remaining encounters were sightings; the rest were track finds or vocalizations.   

 

3 sightings ocurred at dawn, 5 during the day, 1 at dusk, and 8 at night. Most of the night-time encounters occurred between 2200 and 0430 hours. 10 sightings occurred below 1,000 feet in elevation; six occurred between 1,000 and 2,000 feet.  The location/elevation could not be determined for the last report.  

 

7 occurred within 25 yards of a road; 5 sightings were of Bigfoot on a road.  Curiously, in 4 instances, Bigfoot was truckin' right along the road, not crossing it.  While the evidence is purely anecdotal in such a small sample size, this seems to happen in extremely poor weather. (And of course, making that statement immediately reminded me of a summer encounter that completely contradicts it.)

 

And for one final metric, only 3 encounters occurred north of 44N latitude, 11 occurred between 42N and 44N, and 3 occurred south of 42N latitude - of course, that last one is somewhat meaningless, as it omits the entire state of Pennsylvania. 

[norseman]

Doh! Sorry Trog!

[JanV]

A few thoughts...

I am reminded of Ivan Sanderson's comments in his book Abominable Snowman (which is in PDF format in the BF library on the forum).

He makes the statement that ABSM's are not denizens of the snowfields because there is not enough to eat. Instead they live in the dense montane forests where the food is. The reason their tracks are seen in high snow covered elevations (he speculates) is that they are moving from place to place perhaps or are drawn to a saline rich moss or alge that grows on certain rocks above the tree line.

He (having been a collector of animals for zoos) makes the case that a rare animal will come to investigate the collector while it will flee the hunter with the associated smell of guns and dogs.

I think that unless BF is capable of planning and executing a primitive hunter gatherer existence where they consciously store food sufficient for the winter in the northern tier, they have to follow the food sources, elk, etc. to lower elevations.

Finding the right place for them to come investigate the camp is the trick! Finding tracks in the snow might lead you to know where the have been, but it is really unlikely that they will still be there.

Good Luck!