Project Grendel Winter Time Tactics Thread

[Guest]

Norse,

Oh, so Operation Futility in New York is just so much hash, huh? #I joke!

I just got my database reconstructed last weekend - 37 of 276 encounters here in New York, Vermont, and MA/CT west of the Connecticut River Valley, since 1971, have occurred during winter months (Dec, Jan, and Feb).

Eight of those are known hoaxes (e.g., police confiscated the 28" stompers used to make the tracks) or highly dubious claims (e.g., bigfoot, armed with a club, chasing a pick-up truck full of teenagers armed with shotguns and hunting bigfoot). Only 17 of the 29 remaining encounters were sightings; the rest were track finds or vocalizations.

3 sightings ocurred at dawn, 5 during the day, 1 at dusk, and 8 at night. Most of the night-time encounters occurred between 2200 and 0430 hours. 10 sightings occurred below 1,000 feet in elevation; six occurred between 1,000 and 2,000 feet. The location/elevation could not be determined for the last report.

7 occurred within 25 yards of a road; 5 sightings were of Bigfoot on a road. Curiously, in 4 instances, Bigfoot was truckin' right along the road, not crossing it. While the evidence is purely anecdotal in such a small sample size, this seems to happen in extremely poor weather. (And of course, making that statement immediately reminded me of a summer encounter that completely contradicts it.)

And for one final metric, only 3 encounters occurred north of 44N latitude, 11 occurred between 42N and 44N, and 3 occurred south of 42N latitude - of course, that last one is somewhat meaningless, as it omits the entire state of Pennsylvania.

So you discount a sighting if it includes Bigfoot having a club? Why is hard to believe that bigfoot might use large sticks or limbs to kill prey and therefore carry them around?

[BobbyO]

Dangerous to discount sightings with sticks/clubs IMO, especially if you collect knock reports too.

news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070222-chimps-spears.html

"No fewer than 22 times, researchers documented wild chimpanzees on an African savanna fashioning sticks into “spears†to hunt small primates called lesser bush babies." - John Roach,National Geographic News

Edited November 30, 2014 by BobbyO

[Guest]

Exactly Bobby

[JanV]

Perhaps there was other reasons to discount that particular report?

It makes sense that BF would use a club if it were easily available. Not sure they would carry one though.

Edited November 30, 2014 by JanV

[norseman]

From a hunters standpoint if your not seeing sign (tracks, scat, scrapes) your not in a good area.

And I've camped many times and found no tracks the next day. Nor have I had anything bizarre happen that night.

So by my logic tracks are the closest your going to get to an animal without actually seeing it.

[BobbyO]

Absolutely, and tracks of game too Norse huh ?

If you're in an area where food is, you'll always have a chance.

[Trogluddite]

So you discount a sighting if it includes Bigfoot having a club? Why is hard to believe that bigfoot might use large sticks or limbs to kill prey and therefore carry them around?

 

 

Perhaps there was other reasons to discount that particular report?

It makes sense that BF would use a club if it were easily available. Not sure they would carry one though.

 

No, I discounted this particular report because of numerous factors. It's from one witness who reported four encounters in a short period of time in Dutchess County, a relatively populated part of New York.  None of the reports are first hand, but instead are summaries made by an investigator and then summarized by a third individual.  The available reports lack detail about the surrounding events and there is no indication that any of the other reported witnesses were identified or questioned to corroborate the claimed events.  The reports were also all made in a short time in the early 70s, which is a time when there was a lot of publicity - that could lead to false reports.   

 

However, the biggest negative factor affecting my evaluation of this particular report was, in fact, the implausibility of Bigfoot with a stick chasing two (or four, there are apparent conflicts noted) people riding in a truck with shotguns who fired (or didn't, again, there are conflicts noted) at the Bigfoot.  

 

This is John Green report #992263; the other reports are 62, 64, and 65.  You are quite free to form your opinions of the veracity of these reports.

[David NC]

Norse if you and your family and friends are headed out in the winter Take a look at some of the winter survival foods available in the winter. Vitamin C is a very big need for primates and the sources are lessened in the winter. Rose hips- very high in vitamin c and can be found clinging to the plants thru the winter. Watercress- can be found near any moving water even in the winter- one cup(34g) raw has 22% vitamin A, 24% vitamin C (based on 2000 calorie human diet scale) .Pine needles- very high in vitamin C and makes a great tea to ward off the common cold, make sure not to harvest Yew, Norfolk island pine, or ponderosa pine they are poisonous to humans. Cattail- lower rhizomes and shoots are sweet (more so in the winter) and starchy, also packed with vitamin c, potassium, and phosphorus. wild garlic and wild onions- Vitamin A and C, garlic is also a natural broad spectrum antibiotic meaning it can fight bacterial, fungal, and microbes. Burdock - this root has a lot of vitamins including vitamin E and C, a lot of other very useful nutrients. Freshwater clams/mussels - protein and vitamin C, not as much as fresh liver from a animal species but easier to catch in the winter. Chickweed - found in open sunny areas, vey high in vitamin C and lots of other nutrients.   Almost if not all of these will be found around the above mentioned creeks, rivers, and meadows. They are good for humans if you get stuck out there low on food and or do not have high nutrient rich food with you.   Be safe out there Norseman, we all would like to see you make it back to tell us of your experiences wether you find Sasquatch or not, it is beautiful wilderness you get to run around in out there.   - David

[norseman]

Thank you, I'm excited in the fact that we are growing in numbers and we are ******* the bush in a lot of areas now. 

 

I recognize a lot of the Vitamin C sources you mention above. I've also investigated skunk cabbage as a food source before. I'll keep it in mind. Also, Ponderosa pine isn't poisonous to humans that I'm aware of. Us kids would pull the soft sap or pitch off of the bole of the tree and chew it like gum. We call it Bull pine. The only thing I've ever heard was to keep pregnant cows away from browsing on it, as they would abort their calf.

[Guest]

Hello BobbyO,

I agree if we're talking about a "permanent residence". My thoughts were more about hunting that herd that stays lower. Foraging for ungulates in environments where they don't have to dig in snow is more efficient. But for an apex predator who uses sound and updrafts of relatively warm daytime air to bring scents up from game animals it makes more sense to keep higher. Attacks are faster going downhill and a wider view through trees helps with pursuit angles.

If caves aren't utilized then snow is a great second choice for insulation. Cold air sinks to valleys at night and any warmer air will rise. If BF is a smart one then it knows as do other creatures that a morning hunt would be better from the east if the wind is right. But if hunting from above then wind direction is less of a factor. At least that would make sense to me.

 

Hello Hiflier,  I was reading your post and had to admit your message was very insightful. Having watched people for 25 ½ years in an urban city environment it was quite interesting watching homeless people walking one direction during pre-dawn hours and another direction at dusk with no apparent meaningful purpose until I asked.

 

It goes something like this, the sun rises in east and the bums will walk to the farthest reaches of the city sidewalks before daybreak. There they begin a slow arduous walk west with the sun to their backs and the rising rays of sunlight illuminates the shiniest coins in front of them and so when I read your posting it brought this mind. In the late evening, the pattern is repeated this time heading east with the falling sun behind them yet bright enough to illuminate their treasure.

 

Likewise, when I recall reading about ancient and modern warfare strategies good generals and leaders of armies knew this as well and devised strategy around it. They fought and attacked with the sun to their backs so their opponent or quarry is blinded with sunlight, giving them the tactical edge.  Another explanation to your message could also mean these predator creatures understand this as well. If they approach from the east, the victim quarry contends with the brightness of light rather than approaching danger .... Just a thought.  

[David NC]

You are correct Norseman. Had look that up in another place and the original source must have been from an eastern writer, we do not have them here. Very good reason to check multiple places when researching anything. They must have taken the abortive dangers to cattle as being dangerous to humans as well. A cow has to eat pounds of them too before it can cause the possibility of an abortion. I should have checked the "eat the weeds"  blog on that one. That guy knows his plants.

Edited December 1, 2014 by David NC

[hiflier]

Hello Gumshoeye,

 

I know more often than not I'm guilty of skipping steps when I post. You filled in the blanks like you had been reading my mind. Thanks for that. Deer have been known to do this neat thing in hilly terrain. They park themselves about halfway up a hill and lay there with their ears back and their noses and eyes pointing down. They get the advantage of rising smells and seeing any approaching danger in front and get to hear anything coming down behind them. I think if there is a BF on the hunt it's not alone. Even a deer in the position described could be trapped by say a party of three.  

 

I think even in winter Humans should consider this if they ever encounter the Hairy one and most here already are aware of that possible dynamic. I don't think reminders this time of year would be insulting anyone's intelligence. Even the smartest of us forgets things.

Edited December 1, 2014 by hiflier

[Guest]

You are doing a fine job my friend, keep posting they are very interesting. You hit on some salient points that caught my attention and I figured you knew them too.

[Guest UPs]

Norse.....I think the best way to scout snow covered terrain is by air and there are a few ways to do this depending on time, money, and ability. I have always wanted to build and fly an ultralight aircraft because not only are they fun to fly, but you also do not need a FAA license. Another option is the newer Sport Pilot license or even a PPL. Of course the most inexpensive, safest, and time effective would be to simply charter a small, single engine aircraft and pilot. From the air, a trackway in fresh snow should stand out fairly well and using a camera and GPS could help verify and pinpoint the specific spot and then develop a plan based on terrain and movement.

I do not have a SPL or a PPL but have had some training flying ultralights. If that interests you at all, PM me and I can give you a bit more information on ultralights and training. You may have already considered this, but I have not seen it discussed yet. UPs

[Guest ChrisBFRPKY]

Powered parachute. "Death from above"  

Chris B.