Lake County Bigfooot Posted December 24, 2014 Author Posted December 24, 2014 Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, I wish only the best to all here, no matter what persuasion. I will be near the Southern Forest Preserves of Chicagoland tonight, and perhaps I will cross paths with it's legendary Abominable Snowman.....
Guest DWA Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 (edited) The bigfoot proponent community needs to tighten up it's criteria for what is proper evidence. If the science/mindset that bigfoot proponents practice was applied to NASA we would never have gone to the moon. The people doing this primarily are not scientists. If scientists want discipline, it is totally and completely up to scientists to impose it. It is more than a little disingenuous to suddenly expect amateurs to bone up and get all the degrees you have when you are demonstrably not using yours, and the amateurs are more perceptive, and applying science to this more vigorously, than you are. Walling oneself off from evidence that should compel any scientist - and has compelled every one who has made a demonstrable effort - is not being a scientist. It is being an overly stuffy and under-worked techie. I'm sorry to say it but the arguments of "we don't know everything, science isn't the last word, has grown a bit long in the tooth. No one keeping in touch with the sciences could possibly say this! What we know is so completely swamped by what we don't that to assert we know much at all is a laughable notion. And it's always the most perceptive scientists, with the most far-ranging minds, who make this point. The same exact arguments have been bantered about for over half a century now. Science does indeed know. Science knows squat; for science as a body has not addressed the evidence, in over a half-century now. No scientist who has addressed it has failed to be motivated by it to find out what it represents. Period. That is to say in order for science to endorse something there are rules and disciplines that must be applied. Without this we would still be in the dark ages. There is a certain attitude prevalent today that ignorance and misinformation is a valid modality. Oh don't we see that here. So no I won't side with the folks showing videos of rock piles gifted to them by bigfoot and all the other cuteness floating around now concerning bigfoot. Or that pile up red herrings and straw men as an excuse for not knowing what's up, just sayin' there. Edited December 24, 2014 by DWA
Guest Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 That is a relief to me. I tend to get in trouble here when someone makes claims about me that are not true. As far as acceptance by science, have you heard about the Piltdown Man? That was the missing link discovered in 1912 and accepted by science as such for over 40 years until it was proved to be a fraud in 1952. They had combined the jawbone of a orangutan with the skull of a modern human and passed it off as the fossilized remains of an early human. That is good evidence that sometimes science does not know what the hell it is doing and you really cannot trust it at times. But for 40 years it was accepted by mainstream science as being in the human evolutionary tree. Newton's idea of gravity was accepted as absolute certainty for over 300 years until some guy named Einstein came along and showed he was wrong. So acceptance or rejection by science is never a certainty. Science gets stuff wrong all the time. science grows ad evolves Nobody has ever claimed that humans working in the field of science are perfect. The point is that scientific standards are a lot better than the requirements of a goofy forum.
Guest Posted December 25, 2014 Posted December 25, 2014 I wouldnt call this forum "goofy". There is a lot of intelligent discussion and thoughts going on here.
Guest DWA Posted December 25, 2014 Posted December 25, 2014 science grows ad evolves Nobody has ever claimed that humans working in the field of science are perfect. The point is that scientific standards are a lot better than the requirements of a goofy forum. ...and when science starts applying those standards, we'll be good. Not like they have no models. Read Bindernagel and Meldrum, guys and gals...and refute them. If you can't do that, you really need to either (1) get off your duffs or (2) stop the close-minded guffawing and let the next generation of scientists take over here. Max Planck would thank you.
Guest Posted December 25, 2014 Posted December 25, 2014 I wouldnt call this forum "goofy". There is a lot of intelligent discussion and thoughts going on here. all forums are goofy. it's not an attack on this one in particular.
wiiawiwb Posted December 25, 2014 Posted December 25, 2014 (edited) ...Merry Christmas... Edited December 25, 2014 by wiiawiwb
Lake County Bigfooot Posted December 25, 2014 Author Posted December 25, 2014 (edited) I have been active in these threads for about a year and a half, and I know many of you have been here for many years. It certainly is frustrating to keep running over the same old ground, and my intention for this thread is to discuss research, and ways in which we can push it forward. I personally am undertaking to study the larger geographic area I am interested in, to understand more about the whole eco-system, the unique niches that occur, the unseen opportunities that might be present. An example of this is a Cranberry Bog I would have never in a million years have discovered. I found it driving down a rustic road, as well as studying the area surrounding it on google earth, which is surrounded by a river, other lakes, a railway, making it a special opportunity spot. I am trying to find an area that predictably draws this creature at some point in the year, and so far my strategy is to look for very unique opportunities, though I do not know whether this angle holds any merit. Edited December 25, 2014 by Lake County Bigfooot
Guest Posted December 25, 2014 Posted December 25, 2014 all forums are goofy. it's not an attack on this one in particular. All forums are goofy? I wouldnt say that at all. Goofy means crazy, ridiculous, ludicrous. There are a LOT of great, serious and very very interesting and informative forums out there. I think goofy is a wrong choice of wording. Calling it Goofy is to mock it.
Guest dxm2 Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 "Calling it Goofy is to mock it." Really? I think we all need to remember now society views this subject, not just the members of this forum. Bigfoot is entertainment, plain and simple. If you want it to be taken seriously, find a body, find a bone, find a tooth, find anything, anything that can be measured, observed, repeated and shared with the rest of the world. No secret visitation sites, no paranoia about reporting a siting, no more threads about the PG Film. Just get a specimen, period. Because until something physical is found, analyzed, measured and confirmed, Bigfoot is a subject for reality TV, and nothing more. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter how many people reported seeing one, it doesn't matter how many tracks are found, and it doesn't matter how many are seen regularly on someone's property. It matters how many we have been examined measured and "discovered". And before DWA starts talking about Black Holes and other astronomical phenomena, there are mathematical models, and experiments, as well as quantum predictions that have provided much more weight to those scientific theories than to this particular subject. I welcome the day when the subject of this forum is a proven species, but until then, I'm not going to pretend that fate of the world rests on Bigfoot.
southernyahoo Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 It's no stretch to me as a scientific theory to think bigfoot could be another hominin like us that survived to present day especially if they are better adapted for life without things like fire or tools. We know other hominins existed in the past, discovered , measured the whole bit, so it really isn't the burden of the searchers to put forth the science, it's already done, it's just a matter of showing it's extant and here in the US. I'm with LCB, location and timing will likely bring results. 1
Guest Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 (edited) "Calling it Goofy is to mock it." Really? I think we all need to remember now society views this subject, not just the members of this forum. I think we should also remember the rules for this forum. To mock this forum is against the rules, and who in their right minds would mock a forum while then taking the time to make many posts on it?? That sounds even more "goofy". until something physical is found, analyzed, measured and confirmed, Bigfoot is a subject for reality TV, and nothing more. Really? So how come I have books on the subject written by, shock, horror...bona fide scientists (Napier, Krantz, Bindernagel, Meldrum)??? Care to explain that, if bigfoot is only a subject for reality t.v? I'm not going to pretend that fate of the world rests on Bigfoot. Well nor am I. To be honest, I couldnt care less if people ignore the subject of bigfoot and move on with their lives. I have more respect for such people than those who come on bigfoot forums or You Tube videos and attempt to downgrade, belittle or mock the subject. Merry Christmas. Edited to fix quotes. Edited December 26, 2014 by Neanderfoot
Guest DWA Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 "Calling it Goofy is to mock it." Really? Well, it's also pointing up one's ignorance of the evidence and how to suss it, that latter being essential for anyone to be considered a true scientist. But hey. I think we all need to remember now society views this subject, not just the members of this forum. Bigfoot is entertainment, plain and simple. I don't think so. I would think that were it not for my understanding of the evidence I wouldn't make one post here. OK, one: yer all nuts! and then walk away. I don't think the circus entertaining in the least; when I see 'circus' going on I do what any normal person should do: one snorting post, and on to something interesting. Some skeptics are devoting SIX THOUSAND POSTS! to this 'nonsense'. I am not totally sure what that implies about those people, but sure glad I am not them. If you want it to be taken seriously, find a body, find a bone, find a tooth, find anything, anything that can be measured, observed, repeated and shared with the rest of the world. Not interested in this attitude. Science doesn't take this attitude toward anything it is truly interested in; and not to be truly interested in this bespeaks ignorance of the evidence, plain and simple. Science follows evidence to proof; it doesn't sit on its hands waiting for proof to hit it in its collective face. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter how many people reported seeing one, it doesn't matter how many tracks are found, and it doesn't matter how many are seen regularly on someone's property. It matters how many we have been examined measured and "discovered". Reeeeallllly. And without following the copious consistent much of it FORENSIC! evidence...praytell how is that gonna happen? Can't wait for this...on second thought, heard it, a thousand times, and done with it. And before DWA starts talking about Black Holes and other astronomical phenomena, there are mathematical models, and experiments, as well as quantum predictions that have provided much more weight to those scientific theories than to this particular subject. You have got to be kidding me. DOODLES ON PAPER!?!!?!? Where's the forensic evidence for black holes? None. Neutron stars? None. For sasquatch? Copious (that's what "footprints" are, and they've been vouched for by people who know more about footprints than ANYONE knows about black holes). All that black hole/neutron star/exoplanet stuff is ACCEPTED...and mainly accepted by the doodlers in sandals with mismatched socks that spend any time talking about it. Most of us don't 'accept' it so much as we go, um, sure, and when I see a black hole, I'll know it, but in the meantime....See, most people don't understand that what we *know* is in the main *what we have been told." Most people wouldn't be able to get one inch into a black-hole paper without throwing up their hands. We just go, um, sure guys, no problem, cool beans, and on with our lives. It is highly amusing seeing someone defending them who probably wouldn't know the "proof" were it placed in front of him without a title THIS IS THE 'PROOF' OF BLACK HOLES. YOU DON'T HAVE TO READ IT! It is flat astonishing to me how very few people who come here to talk about this understand the first thing about this aspect of "knowledge." You are accepting, whole, what someone else has told you. Period. The evidence for sasquatch is much better than that for black holes. Know who says that? BIGFOOT SKEPTICS. They're talking about "no evidence" for something people see with their own eyes (how many astronomical phenomena have *you* seen?); feel and measure and analyze 'cause it's RIGHT THERE ON THE GROUND, no equations required (until you are measuring and analyzing this thing that is RIGHT THERE ON THE GROUND). P/G is a FILM of an ANIMAL; no person can fit in that "costume" AND SHE LEFT TRACKS! That have been measured and analyzed and found consistent with thousands of others. I welcome the day when the subject of this forum is a proven species, but until then, I'm not going to pretend that fate of the world rests on Bigfoot. You've devoted 40 more posts to that, then, than I would.
Guest DWA Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 I think we should also remember the rules for this forum. To mock this forum is against the rules, and who in their right minds would mock a forum while then taking the time to make many posts on it?? That sounds even more "goofy". FORTY-ONE in at least one case; OVER! FIVE! THOUSAND! in another. I mean, wow. Know how many posts I have put up on fairy websites (heck, Nessie for that matter?) Big fat nil. Never seen an explanation for this Incessant 'Skeptical' Posting Syndrome that would begin to satisfy me. It's not normal-guy-on-street behavior, ferdangsure. Really? So how come I have books on the subject written by, shock, horror...bona fide scientists (Napier, Krantz, Bindernagel, Meldrum)??? Care to explain that, if bigfoot is only a subject for reality t.v? The herd of woolly mammoths pursued by the horde of sabertooths and the five clans of Neanderthal in the living room, wot? Never see this addressed either, except to make excuses that show one hasn't either read or comprehended that material. Well nor am I. To be honest, I couldnt care less if people ignore the subject of bigfoot and move on with their lives. I have more respect for such people than those who come on bigfoot forums or You Tube videos and attempt to downgrade, belittle or mock the subject. No kidding! Know what I think of Nessie? Fairies? Bending spoons with your mind? Wake me up when you got something. 'Til then I don't need to bother you. It's the people who OBSESS over something they know nothing about - demonstrably, I mean, this is a *fact* not an opinion - that give me the flaming SMHs.
Lake County Bigfooot Posted December 26, 2014 Author Posted December 26, 2014 I have been attempting to draw the conversation back toward research, and maybe this thread needs to moved to that arena, obviously it is going astray. I have long stated that where I live in the Midwest I think they move along rivers north and south in the spring and fall months. The river that runs through the lakes I live on empties into the Illinois river near Utica. I said sometime in September that expected to hear of a sighting along that route, sure enough it happened in October, but it confirms my suspicion that they follow the river south as colder weather hits, and back north when it gets hot, I think that they stay put or move a little south of the river confluence in winter. So now I want to go hit that area hard and look for prints, because history says they should be in that area where the two rivers join. I wonder if any of you guys have a similar situation that seems to have some predictability.
Recommended Posts