Minnesota Iceman Hoax

[Guest LAL]

sheesh...can you imagine if this would happen today? There's no way that he could have gotten away with simply having the thing "disappear" prior to a thorough inspection.

And don't point to the Georgia Hoax because that would only make my point.

This guy took drove this thing all across the country for crimeny sakes!

I betting if this guy were working the carnival circuit today in his refrigerated semi - bare minimum - DDA and Squatchdetective would have already teamed up, donned their ninja garb and snuck into the trailer with a cordless drill and a loooong drill bit.

And NatGeo would do a two-hour special on it - unless History beat them to it.

Edited April 28, 2011 by LAL

[Guest]

Sanderson addressed that:

"4. It cannot be an abnormal individual, or freak, belonging to any of the known races of modern man because, in all cases of hypertrichosis, i.e. abnormal development of the hair, the most hairy areas are the outside of the upper head, the chin, cheek, upper lip, axillae, middle of chest and crotch; here, these areas have a less profuse growth of hair. Moreover, the specimen cannot have been preserved in ice for centuries or millennia. This is physically impossible.

The peculiar structure of the ice and the presence of a pool of blood around the head show that, immediately after death, the corpse was placed in a freezer tank filled with water and artificially frozen. A large caliber bullet entering the right eye apparently killed the specimen. The impact blew out the rear of the skull and forced the left eye out of its socket. To sum up, this specimen is a contemporary representative of an unknown form of Hominid, most probably a relic of the Neanderthal type. The belief, based on strong testimonial evidence, that small, scattered populations of Neanderthals survive, has been held for years by some scientists, mostly Russian and Mongolian."

The height was 6' and the feet were 10" wide.

"6. Peculiar relative proportions of both fingers and toes. The thumb is longer than modern man's and the toes are all nearly the same size."

Don't you know, LAL...Sanderson is a nasty-ol' B'leever...thus his scientific skills and observations are automatically not allowed....

[Guest]

It just blows me away that this kind of credulity still happens in Bigfootery. How much hoaxing is too much for you, Mulder?

How much obfuscation and refusal to address evidence and facts is too much for YOU, Kita?

[Huntster]

The images displayed throughout this page and preceeding were available to the public, these ones in particular were published in the book "Prehistoric Men" in 1960 and were very popular.

So? Images like these go back thousands of years of recorded human history:

So where are the satyr reports today? Why are the few that exist not distributed in biologically acceptable densities like sasquatch report densities (higher in areas of greater precipitation, just like black bear densities)?

[Guest]

Now we're playing games, you already know this.

"I knew that if this thing was real and it rolled out accidentally on the highway I could be in trouble, so I contacted some friends in the movie industry in the Los Angeles area and arranged for a sculptor to make a model of the thing without him even seeing it. I just made diagrams and drawings and told him I wanted it for a carnival sideshow.

After a few months he came up with what looked to me like a very passable replica of whatever was in the ice. I put the replica in the coffin in clear view of people in the area who knew what I was doing and headed down to the warehouse where the replica was switched with the original Iceman."

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/articles/showman_hansen.htm

Yep, Napier had the intelligence to see when Hansen had 4 different stories, the last one admitting he had a fake made, that the whole thing was a scam.

Shot yourself in the foot (again) wolf...there was the REAL Iceman, and then the fake...that's what he says. Nowhere does he admit the original Iceman was a fake.

[wolftrax]

No game here. Sometimes rewording changes meaning. I called you on it.

Yeah it was a game and I hope you are through with them.

I don't have time for a proper response just now, but I do have some problems with Napier's take.

Chambers reportedly said ( "sort of"):

"John: A carnival. There are a lot of guys out there doing that. You know the block of ice with this body that was frozen in a block of ice? This guy’s story was really good, and he brought it to me wanting artificial eyes, and I gave him artificial eyes and I gave him the people that would do the hair, and then he had it implanted in ice. He finally got arrested by the Canadians, bringing that body across the body. They wouldn’t let him go into the ice to see if it was fake or flesh. That’s what happened with this thing; it was passed off as a real body- people would say, ‘Look at the toenails, look at the... it must be real!’ We had a speaker right near him, and we were listening to everything, but the funny thing was, the guys says, ‘I need a sign to really finish this, and I don’t know what to with it.’ I said I had an idea to make it real, so I said, ‘Listen to what I say: the creature in this coffin once lived and felt the sunset glow; like that poem, “Who lived and saw the sunset glow; now he lies in Flander’s Field;’ I took some of those phrases and put in, so it said, ‘This creature was alive, in this coffin,’ but I didn’t tell them, I put a fly under his arm, a big horsefly, and it lived and felt the sunset glow,’ and I said, ‘I’ll prove it for you, do you believe me now?’ He said, ‘You can do that?’ so I had the fly caught, because when he was challenged, he had to show the fly! That character was on the carnival circuit for years, but that was the kind of jobs I got."

On eye was shot through and the other blown out of its socket so what were the artificial eyes for?

You answered and asked your own question. The eye out of it's socket and hanging on the cheek?

That Hansen had a model made is not in dispute. "We had a speaker near him"???????? When, where?

Does it matter? Ever been to a carnival and seen speakers at exhibits replaying barker spiel?

[wolftrax]

So? Images like these go back thousands of years of recorded human history:

So where are the satyr reports today? Why are the few that exist not distributed in biologically acceptable densities like sasquatch report densities (higher in areas of greater precipitation, just like black bear densities)?

And if someone displays a satyr in a block of ice, and someone starts telling you that it couldn't be fake because that person had nothing to base it off of, you would know they were wrong, right?

Sometimes I wonder if you guys are even reading the threads to see what people are responding to. It seems like you are just skimming through looking for certain posts and responding to that with no idea what the subject is.

[wolftrax]

And here's a prime example of that:

Shot yourself in the foot (again) wolf...there was the REAL Iceman, and then the fake...that's what he says. Nowhere does he admit the original Iceman was a fake.

Actually Hansen shot himself in the foot. He doesn't have to admit the model was a hoax the entire time, his repeated lying makes anything he say suspect and should be confirmed by other sources. The only thing that can be confirmed that he said was he had the model made, only those who confirm it maintain it was a hoax the entire time.

I never shot myself in the foot Mulder, you just are too busy defending your friend you have no idea what the subject matter being discussed it or it's context.

[kitakaze]

Don't you know, LAL...Sanderson is a nasty-ol' B'leever...thus his scientific skills and observations are automatically not allowed....

[Guest LAL]

<snip>

You answered and asked your own question. The eye out of it's socket and hanging on the cheek?

Wouldn't it have been cheaper to use ping pong balls?

Sorry, I don't see the artificial eyes in the MIM photos. I see some here:

Does it matter? Ever been to a carnival and seen speakers at exhibits replaying barker spiel?

Yeah, it matters. Was Chambers saying he was involved with the exhibit?

More Burien paintings here- complete with clubs.

[wolftrax]

Wouldn't it have been cheaper to use ping pong balls?

Sorry, I don't see the artificial eyes in the MIM photos. I see some here:

You don't recall descriptions of the Iceman with the eyeball hanging on the cheek, or am I going to have to source that one?

Yeah, it matters. Was Chambers saying he was involved with the exhibit?

Why does it matter?

More Burien paintings here- complete with clubs.

Point?

[Guest LAL]

Nice pics! Almost reminds me of Ardi. However, back then people thought that big brains developed before bipedalism. Also note that in the pics there are no chins. The person who did both the fake and the original thought that apemen (of whatever kind) have chins. Only modern Homo sapiens have chins. All previous Homo forms had a receding chin that did not stick out at all, much like those paintings depict.

Note the drawing of the profile:

[Guest LAL]

Don't you know, LAL...Sanderson is a nasty-ol' B'leever...thus his scientific skills and observations are automatically not allowed....

Yep. And besides he had a cheetah.

[Guest LAL]

You don't recall descriptions of the Iceman with the eyeball hanging on the cheek, or am I going to have to source that one?

Of course I do. I don't see that either. Why use an artificial eye when a properly gorified sphere of the proper size would do?

If you're through trying to put me down maybe we can continue the discussion.

Why does it matter?

It probably doesn't. The interview seems to be a he said - he said. Transcribed or reconstructed from memory, Kaze? Chambers neglected to counter the rumor John Landis started because it was good for business. Maybe he thought Hansen was good for business too.

Point?

Alley Oop.

[wolftrax]

Of course I do. I don't see that either. Why use an artificial eye when a properly gorified sphere of the proper size would do?

Why tell people his attraction was a fake when they would line up to see it if they thought it was real?

It probably doesn't. The interview seems to be a he said - he said. Transcribed or reconstructed from memory, Kaze? Chambers neglected to counter the rumor John Landis started because it was good for business. Maybe he thought Hansen was good for business too.

When he was retired? When Langdon was retired? When Napier could care less because he was going on digs with the Leakeys?

Alley Oop.

Oop, oop, oop-oop