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SWWASAS

Gifford Pinchot Encounter April 21, 2015

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SWWASAS

CM, The raven wing video you sent did not have anything that I could hear. I asked others and they said they could not hear the wing chuffs either that you claimed was there. So that was no help to me.

Yes I have listened to dozens of grouse drumming audio clips. The problem with that is that any recording of that, does not reflect the whole sound spectrum due to microphone capabilities. Much of grouse drumming is in the infrasound range too. Any recording or reproduction equipment does a poor job with that. Nothing much in audio equipment as far as microphones or recorders will record below 20HZ. I do not have a recording of what I heard that day. And if I did, it would probably have issues with recording and reproduction too. From what I have experienced with the drumming, what I think is not a grouse starts faster and does not get as fast at the end. A grouse starts at about 1 or 2 beats per second then ramps up rapidly to much faster than what I think is something else. Until I record it, I cannot really make any sort of critical comparison. Just how it sounds is not in my mind, an objective way to differentiate. Because that depends greatly on microphone, recorder, and reproduction equipment capabilities. With audio visualizer equipment it is easy to count beats per second and that kind of thing. That to me would be a more definative way to tell any difference. When I can make that analysis, if I am wrong, I will admit it like I did with the raven. I am interested in truth and not opinion or saving face.

Edited by SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT
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WSA

Commendable adherence to sound investigative principles, resulting in an expansion of the body of applicable knowledge. Outstanding.

 

Rabbit napkin holder? Weirdness indeed.

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MIB

When I can make that analysis, if I am wrong, I will admit it like I did with the raven. I am interested in truth and not opinion or saving face.

 

I find this attitude, as well as walking it, not just talking it, most commendable.  Thumbs up.  I find the attempted to rub your nose in it ... petty.  We need advocates for the truth, not immature oneupsmanship, if the search is to progress.

 

MIB

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CMBigfoot

Hi SWWASASQUATCH,

 

The raven wing woosh sound starts around 2:37 thru 2:41ish. The video was the best I could find for the moment. Not very good I admit.

 

Anyways, If I offended or upset you or anyone else with my posts. I apologize. It wasn't my intention.

 

The mods may delete all of them.

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MikeZimmer

No problem with your approach or your willingnses to revisit your initial conclusions in light of further evidence. Shows an admirable self-honesty in my view.

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Guest

SWWA,

Outstanding stuff. While I am sure a solo investigation would have yielded the same results I think there are huge benefits to having a partner with you. Doubling the eyes, ears, nose, and brain power on a case is not a bad thing. I commend you for the work you are doing and how you are doing it.

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SWWASAS

For those outside science this stuff may seem ego shattering. The history of science is the history of individuals being proven to be wrong. One theory after another. Even Einstein had to make late revisions to his Theory of Relativity to accommodate new data. So in my humble way I am in good company. I take no offense when I am wrong (well a bit) but I am willing to pull back and reexamine any theory I propose with new data that suggests something else. The important thing is to advance what we know. The way to do that is challenge each theory if you have data to the contrary, not with you are wrong and I am right (we have way too much of that with BF research), but with data that shows some theory that is held up as a solution, does not support the data. For those outside science this stuff is tedious. Science in general is lots of tedious grunt work dealing with data sets. Mostly things in science progress with baby steps not great leaps of brilliance.

Edited by SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT
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WSA

It is always so hard to know if what the mind is doing is coming to a more accurate assessment, or trying to only fit an unknown impression into a known framework.  Years ago in the middle of the night when I heard what I immediately identified as a large rock landing in the water next to me, my first reaction was understandably, 'Who could possibly be out here, and why are they throwing rocks at me?" In an instant that became, "Oh, must have been a beaver."  Well, only maybe. The initial impression is usually the most accurate, and yes, it was the distinctive "depth charge" sound of a baby-head rock hitting the water and the sound of the resulting geyser.  There was no subsequent splashing or any other beaver sign anywhere around the area. When I began to piece the puzzle together, and connected the dots of a nearby sighting that was reported, and another personal encounter, I began to trust my initial impression more. Then again....

Edited by WSA

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SWWASAS

Headed back out tomorrow solo.   Want to explore the area more.  Hopefully no shooters driving everything away.    Would be good to get a recording of that drumming thing so I can compare it to grouse and see if the recorded data does show a difference.    I am not normally a sound person because listening to hours of recording the next day is not my idea of fun.     Audio visualizer software helps but the truly unique things off in a distance can sneak right by you unless you listen to the whole file.    Then again sound is like a picture not proving anything.    Unless you see what made the sound,   you are never really sure of what it was. 

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CMBigfoot

Hi SWWASQUATCH,

 

If you go back to the same spot you heard the drumming sound before. If it's a ruffed grouse and you're quiet and listen. You should hear it again. If the area hasn't been too disturbed. 

 

I know a spot that has had a ruffed grouse drumming there every April for the past 20 years. I know this because I keep going out in the field and I take/keep field notes. Before I knew what it was I called it the thump thump sound. Also at this time of year Great Gray Owls are vocalizing their deep WHOA WHOA sound. Before I knew what it was I called it the WHOA WHOA sound. So I thought all the WHOA WHOA sounds were Great Gray Owls. Until one day I was going to film one up in a tree. But it wasn't a Great Gray Owl it was a Blue Grouse. So I'm not right all the time. There's always something new to learn.

 

I didn't have anyone to teach or show me these things. I did it all on my own going back into the field over and over again, listening and observing my surroundings and keeping field notes. 

 

So if there's someone that has a recording, video, photo, or describes a sound they've heard while out in the field. And asks what do you think of this or that or what is it?  And if I know or think I know what it is. I'll say something if I think I can help. And if I can find a video of what I think it is, I'll share it. If I'm wrong I'm wrong. If I'm right I'm right, no big deal. But for me having an older brother I don't get to be right very often. So when I am right, especially after being told I'm wrong. It feels good. After all I'm only human.

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SWWASAS

Well got back on the solo research horse yesterday after getting thrown off the other day.    Lovely day and totally uneventful.    Found some areas I want to explore further.    Whole new area for me.     Did hear some single non descript thuds that could have been anything from various directions.    Sometimes I wonder if a tree being cut down miles away, will make an infrasound thud that travels for miles through the ground.     The underlying shallow basalt fields would be a really good sound conduit.    Anyone else hear things like that now and then?     Sore feet today.   Lots of hiking.  

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BigTreeWalker

Glad you had a good day out there. New areas are always great to explore.

I have heard both deer and elk stomp their feet in warning. Went into the middle of a clearcut years ago. I was hunting grouse. Kept hearing a thudding noise, one you could feel almost more than hear. The area was covered with big blackberry patches, over head high, couldn't see a thing. I climbed up on a big stump and looked around. I was right in the middle of an elk herd. Walking around through those patches I was startling elk and they would stomp as they ran off.

Just saying that's what it might be. However, sometimes I've noticed the ground almost sounds hollow. So even stepping down hard while walking will make a thump that carries pretty good in the forest.

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UPs

I have heard a deep thud just outside my cabin at night when I was going to sleep. Very strange noise and I immediately used a flashlight to see if anything was in that area. I saw nothing and found no impressions on the ground from the area I heard it come from. It sounded to me like a large brick was dropped out of a tree and hit the ground just one time. This is just one of many unusual things that have happened to me over the years while staying at my cabin. I really would like to know what causes the deep thud noises and I am not the only one who experiences these.

Not to get off track here, but thanks for posting your experiences. I hear grouse often in the springtime and it is a very distinctive sound and hard to confuse with any other sound. If you do hear this same noise again, walk towards it and look for a grouse propped up on something like a stump, rock, or tree branch. They usually drum in spring and are off the ground, not always though.

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SWWASAS

No drumming yesterday at all.     The deep thuds are more like a tree hitting the ground someplace very distant than anything an animal could make.    That area has all kinds of earthquake faults too.    Could be most anything.    I did find this down tree on a very active game trail.    Notice how the bark is worn off the top?     I carefully examined it for any fur fibers.   Nothing found.    The height was greater than I could step over but there are so many elk in the area, I suspect they might be the ones that wore off the bark. 

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BigTreeWalker

That bark missing looks like where the elk would clip it with their hoofs as they jumped over it.

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