A Few Words Concerning Bigfoot At The Half Century Mark

[SWWASAS]

seriously swwa? How many times has Meldrum been fooled? Heck, Survivorman bigfoot fooled Meldrum with a fake cast. And Disotell cut off the mohawk last year, just saying.

What evidence has Disotell introduced to disprove the existence of BF?      Survivorman had a replica made by a special effects lab of what is thought by Meldrum to be an authentic cast.       The fact that Meldrum recognized the replica was a reproduction of an authentic cast in his possession,   validates rather than invalidates Meldrum's abilities.     Many of the casts floating around are reproductions of original casts and without transfer of custody it is nearly impossible to tell the difference.           So even Disotell realized the Mohawk was a bad fashion statement and got rid of it?     Two very weak arguments. 

Really? Then how come I don't believe in ghosts, alien abduction, werewolves, vampires, mermaids, fairies, Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, re-incarnation, ESP, Heaven, Hell, God etc etc etc?

Be careful there.    One of the things you mentioned I didn't believe in either and like BF,  when you encounter one,   you will be forced to change your mind.   Fine to be skeptical and have beliefs but just be ready for some of the things you mentioned to be there.   

[Bodhi]

But on the whole, "don't make it personal" complaint. 

 

I'm sure you are a very nice person, as are all who post here. I'm sure we could have a great time swilling beer and telling war stories late into the evening.  On this topic though, there is no polite way to tell you you are whack, so I don't try. 

 

Just take one area of evidence, the footprints: You are required, given your position on the matter, to say that ALL (Not most...ALL) footprints (thousands, over centuries) are fabrications and hoaxes. Either that, or you disconnect completely from reality to believe footprints are made by nothing. Either statement is complete ka-ka. You know it, but yet you and many others persist in that. That is a personal failing on your part, and I hate to have to be the one to bring the news to you, but somebody must. 

Not just casts WSA, all reports, photos, videos, casts - none of it has amounted to anything substantial. Casts are interesting, but they haven't advanced the science. It'd be a lot happier if even a single animal hair had been picked up in any cast. A hair could then be tied to a specific cast and tested. Animals shed; hair and skin cells. DNA has been picked up in soil from know animals and thus it could be for sasquatch but I'm not aware of a hair ever being found in situ with a print.

 

Without something else casts are interesting but so what? Has anyone, ever, followed a set of print discovered a den, ever? A feeding source, ever? A piece of scat,ever? A stray hair pulled out against a briar/tree, ever? Thousands of prints/trackways and not a single piece of scat along the way and that doesn't cause you to wonder? Not even a little bit? Animals produce scat, well most animals at least.

 

Sure casts are great as far as they go, 50 years of casts have meant exactly what with regard to moving the search forward?

[Guest DWA]

Scientific proponents are never fooled.  Not in any sense that has any significance.  Reason?  They always have their eyes on what the overall evidence is saying.

 

The fringes of the argument are always being played for fools, for precisely the reason that they are hanging on Each New Piece, and have no conception of the big picture.

 

 

 

 

Once you sort out what the creature is about, its easy to see why. I think a lot of skeptics are frustrated because they have an (arrogant) impression that BF is just a regular animal and never even try on the idea that it may be as smart or smarter than humans. If you don't think its smart, then it makes no sense and must not exist because it does not show up on game cams and we don't find dead bodies laying around.

 

But some of us think that the only thing that seems that freakishly special about this animal is the human denial that is by far its best camouflage.  The smart one is us; and as usual...it's too smart for our own good.

 

But if its smart, (and has better night vision than we do) then avoiding game cameras is not that mysterious if you also entertain the idea that maybe it wants no contact with humans whatsoever. This starts to make sense, as all those sightings out there are the ones that screwed up and got seen. Of course I could be making all this up, the only thing is that I know they exist.

 

Besides which we have evidence that *coyotes* ferpetesake actively avoid game cams; it's the ones who don't control territories that get photographed.  The target species is a lot thinner on the ground, it's a safe bet, than most of what shows up on game cams.

 

But really when it comes down to it I don't blame skeptics and skoftics one bit for disabusing the idea of BF. The only response I have is: 'fine- no worries- go ahead and live your life and enjoy the woods. However, should you ever have an encounter, just be forewarned that your thinking might go out the window in one heartbeat."

 

The typical bigfoot sighter is a scoftic who just got a battlefield conversion.  One has to laugh at how some of them got their worlds rocked.

[Bodhi]

And...my personal satisfaction as to what now? Who cares? I have no yardstick to measure progress in this field. If you ask me if I think we've expended a sufficient EFFORT towards progress, I'd say hell no we haven't, and it shows. 

That is a great, honest reply. Thank you. I agree, and allows for the more interesting conversation of how to go about improving upon methods of research/reporting.

[Guest DWA]

But on the whole, "don't make it personal" complaint. 

 

I'm sure you are a very nice person, as are all who post here. I'm sure we could have a great time swilling beer and telling war stories late into the evening.  On this topic though, there is no polite way to tell you you are whack, so I don't try. 

 

Just take one area of evidence, the footprints: You are required, given your position on the matter, to say that ALL (Not most...ALL) footprints (thousands, over centuries) are fabrications and hoaxes. Either that, or you disconnect completely from reality to believe footprints are made by nothing. Either statement is complete ka-ka. You know it, but yet you and many others persist in that. That is a personal failing on your part, and I hate to have to be the one to bring the news to you, but somebody must. 

And somebody must second it.  Bigfoot skepticism is not skepticism.  It is a willful denial that the world works the way the world...um...works.

[Bodhi]

What evidence has Disotell introduced to disprove the existence of BF?      Survivorman had a replica made by a special effects lab of what is thought by Meldrum to be an authentic cast.       The fact that Meldrum recognized the replica was a reproduction of an authentic cast in his possession,   validates rather than invalidates Meldrum's abilities.     Many of the casts floating around are reproductions of original casts and without transfer of custody it is nearly impossible to tell the difference.           So even Disotell realized the Mohawk was a bad fashion statement and got rid of it?     Two very weak arguments. 

medlrum stated that the print looked similar to one he'd seen previously but he didn't say that he thought it was a fake in fact he mentioned that he'd like to study it. Les had to cut him off and clue him in to the fact that it was a fake. Let's not forget that Dr. Meldrum thinks that the Standing's evidence was compelling and that he signed onto the Falcon thing. Dr. Meldrum is a great fellow but he's been on the wrong side of quite a few things. Please don't allow your desire to disagree with me force you into indefensible positions, there is plenty of common ground.

[ThePhaige]

Really? Then how come I don't believe in ghosts, alien abduction, werewolves, vampires, mermaids, fairies, Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, re-incarnation, ESP, Heaven, Hell, God etc etc etc?

Your non belief in any of those things does not make any or all of them non existent. In fact I could probably pretty easily show how there is as much evidence to support many of those listed things than there are to support what ever it might be you claim to believe as it relates to these types of things. Let me ask what do you believe as you tennant for the explanation of all that is... the singularity? Quantum mechanics , Macro Evolution, Cosmic Evolution,Chemical evolution,Stellar and Planetary evolution, organic evolution, micro evolution? Man made climate change, global warming or whatever its called this week? or would those also be an extention to your list? Its doesnt make CL comment though any less rediculous I suppose.

Edited June 23, 2015 by ThePhaige

[WSA]

You see, there is no fundamental flaw in the way evidence is collected. It is the same way all evidence is collected, sorted, cataloged and stored. There are always improvements in methodology for collecting it, sure, but...   Where we find ourselves is not the fault of the evidence, which as DWA likes to point out, exceeds all evidence of any other animal we haven't discovered yet.  What it is the fault of is people who view the evidence and lack the basic processing capacity to appreciate what they are likely looking at.

 

This attitude can be summarized by somebody noting only that tracks are "interesting." Interesting? In what sense, exactly? Interesting as in: "Wonder how a track got there" and then moving on to post why BF can't exist because, you know, too many years have gone by?  That kind of incurious mindset is baffling to me, always.  In a nutshell it explains why we find ourselves here arguing the basics of reality as if it were relativity. Anyone who takes the time to look into the track evidence and  merely says they are "interesting" has as much hope of figuring this out as I have of winning the Powerball.  

 

Sorry to be personal about it, but you are either not being honest with yourself and others, or you are inhabiting a different reality than all of us who understand stuff is caused by other stuff, and connections are easily deduced to find out how that happened. If even ONE track is not explained by hoaxes or fabrications that is a bit more than "interesting" to me. Not you, apparently.      

[roguefooter]

This starts to make sense, as all those sightings out there are the ones that screwed up and got seen. Of course I could be making all this up, the only thing is that I know they exist.

 

As far as I can see, these abilities are created just for that- so things will make sense. If you believe it exists then you will have to create illogical reasons for it's existence, because logical reasoning points to non-existence.

If there is any fortune to be gained for you within my statement ,other than perhaps, (it makes no sense to you) in order for you to take the time to make your post,then lets say....sure whatever RF...lol or I would have put in quotes at the end "whille in bed"

 

Or you could just be a monk on a Tibetian mountain top posting on the forum.

[ThePhaige]

Sorry to be personal about it, but you are either not being honest with yourself and others, or you are inhabiting a different reality than all of us who understand stuff is caused by other stuff, and connections are easily deduced to find out how that happened. If even ONE track is not explained by hoaxes or fabrications that is a bit more than "interesting" to me. Not you, apparently.      

 

Or as I have seen for years, many very much are aware of the realities and are part of a more denial driven fabrication of reality and a world view that necesitates a particular setting aside of what might be called faith, or as I like to call it the evidence of things unprovable through tangeable means.

 

I dont have an issue with the truth because the truth is my agenda. I dont have a problem saying they are Quantum/Spiritually (pick your term) oriented entities that have been here for may thousands of years and have a rather suprisingly large population. I could go on and on and have and Im not going to here , but for such realities to exist in todays world where you can find a cockroach in a rain forrest from space yet cannot find an indiginous large population of SSQ over many states and continents makes it clear, and for those like myself who have communicated, interacted and learned at least through their and other deceptions what the ultimate painting looks like far afar , all the willful decractors become extremely transparent either through their genernal ignorace, willful ignorance or their willful obfuscation. In either case the evidence is what it is.

Edited June 23, 2015 by ThePhaige

[SWWASAS]

medlrum stated that the print looked similar to one he'd seen previously but he didn't say that he thought it was a fake in fact he mentioned that he'd like to study it. Les had to cut him off and clue him in to the fact that it was a fake. Let's not forget that Dr. Meldrum thinks that the Standing's evidence was compelling and that he signed onto the Falcon thing. Dr. Meldrum is a great fellow but he's been on the wrong side of quite a few things. Please don't allow your desire to disagree with me force you into indefensible positions, there is plenty of common ground.

You did not see the exchange at the Sasquatch Summit in Ocean Shores last November between Standing and Meldrum. I did, they are not exactly buddies. What does the failure of the Falcon project have to do with the credibility of Meldrum? Guilt by association? My point about the footprint was that it is impossible to tell the difference between an authentic cast, a copy of that, or a reproduction of that. I could cast your own foot, copy the cast, and make a reproduction and not even you could tell the difference. That is why I think casts are a dead end research path for BF. If Meldrum, who is the footprint guy in his field, cannot persuade his colleagues with his footprint casts, of the existence of BF, that form of evidence is just not definitive enough. It is entirely possible he has casts that are not authentic, but if even one is, that is all footprint evidence can provide, other than variations in size and shape.

Edited June 23, 2015 by SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT

[Guest]

Your non belief in any of those things does not make any or all of them non existent. 

 

I don't care if it does or not. I don't believe in any of them. However, I am not going around telling others such and such doesn't exist. I don't give a flying wombat if people want to believe in such stuff or not. It's no concern of mine and certainly no big deal to me. They can even argue the Queen is really a 8ft alien lizard. I would not waste my time trying to convince them otherwise. If they want to believe it....go for it.

[roguefooter]

The problem I see with Meldrum is that he's too reckless. If he presents footprint casts as being real and any of them are shown to be fake, then that means his logic is not sound. You will never know if any casts are real under those conditions.

 

Like when he pushed dermal ridges in his book, and later it was shown that casting artifacts created the same result. That showed his logic was not sound.

 

He has enough blunders under his belt now for any scientist to not take him seriously anymore.

[ThePhaige]

I feel on the footprint front... all that can be gleaned at this point where a scaleable metrix model was built through tedious data collection and comparison show the greatest support of indigenious population. Its a simple mathmatical improbability and willful disregard that these numbers (if even a a large number are hoax related) is not very very compelling if not the slam dunk of a sort. I think Dr Fahrenbachs work is extrmemly important in these regards.

Assuming the data is correct (which I do) , although in all cercumstances with science or otherwise , we must make assumtions or have some degree of faith.

 

http://www.bfro.net/REF/THEORIES/WHF/FahrenbachArticle.htm

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/biology/henner.htm

 

As to guilt by association and how that effects the scientific community, lets just say North Korea dont have (guilt by association laws) by chance, they server a very powerful ends to a means and vice verse.

Edited June 23, 2015 by ThePhaige

[Guest]

 

 

Like when he pushed dermal ridges in his book, and later it was shown that casting artifacts created the same result. That showed his logic was not sound.

 

 

 But he had back up from the qualified expert Jimmy Chilcutt.