Bbc Article: Why Don't People See The Yeti Anymore?

[Night Walker]

Night Walker, there are several subjective statements in your argument.  My point about coyotes is that some Native American cultures attributed spiritual aspects to what are clearly physical beings.

 

 

I would expect there to be many subjective statements within my argument - I'm as subjective as the next person and Yeti/Bigfoot/Yowie are subjective phenomena...

 

Yes - some Native American cultures attribute spiritual aspects to what are clearly physical beings but the same cannot be said for Yeti/Bigfoot/Yowie which are spiritual beings attributed with "real" (flesh-and-blood) capabilities. See the difference? Yet both are perceived as real by those that already believe...

 

 

 

Folklore contains a mix of factual basis and myth.  Point is that just because something exists in folklore it cannot be dismissed out of hand.

 

You and I agree that mind-speak, teleportation, cloaking and dimension hopping are ridiculous attributions.  They are no more than physical beings just like us, but with highly developed skills.  People trained in Special Ops, though, can replicate the bulk of bigfoots' demonstrated ability to evade.

 

But which parts are factual and which are myth? The point of folklore is to blur such distinctions so that it all appears potentially real. If you believe something is real (no matter how outrageous/unlikey it is) then you are more likely to confirm that belief with subjective experiences...

 

I certainly do not agree with you that mind speak, teleportation, cloaking, dimension hopping, etc are ridiculous attributions - they are often reported sincerely as being factual parts of the cryptid experience so how can these bits of folklore be dismissed out of hand but not other equally unsupported aspects (like the Yeti/Bigfoot/Yowie itself)? You dismiss them (ironically, after lecturing me about why folklore should not be dismissed out of hand) because they do not fit in with your particular beliefs about what the Yeti/Bigfoot/Yowie should be - that is fine and we all do it to some degree or other but it doesn't make the mystical IHMM reports any less real to those that experienced it nor does it make the non-spiritual IHMM reports any more real to evidence-based analysis...

 

Spec Ops evasion skills can be documented, taught, and countered but that does not apply to Yeti/Bigfoot/Yowie (see the coyote example above). Special Ops also use the power of folklore for their own benefit because their effects may be experienced as real...

 

 

 

You should look into the Powell Doctrine established in 1879.  Powell himself actively advocates suppression of certain lines of research.  I recommend purchasing and reading the following book to bring yourself up to speed. http://www.amazon.com/The-Ancient-Giants-Ruled-America/dp/1591431719  It is well documented and may well change your perception.

 

Placing folklore in its "proper context" very much sounds like a subjective process to me.  Who decides what is relegated to simple myth and who attributes more to a particular aspect?  Your way of thinking could well make you a successor to Powell.

 

 

Thanks for that reference - its reasonably priced on Kindle so I'll check it out and get back to you on that one. But you realize that when Lincoln wrote, "The eyes of that species of extinct giants, whose bones fill the mounds of America, have gazed on Niagara, as ours do now" in 1848 that he was most likely referring to mammoths and mastodons not actual human giants or Bigfoot, right?

 

Of course placing folklore in its "proper context" is a subjective process and that is fine because we are dealing with a completely subjective phenomenon here - the International Hairy Man of Mystery. Not coyotes or Special Ops attributed with mystical powers. I just think it is good to consider other alternatives and while the paranormal/supernatural doesn't work for me as an explanation on an objective level I can still totally appreciate that the paranormal/supernatural does work on a variety of levels with other folk and that is of interest to me...

 

Hmmm... Powell was about suppressing claims that didn't match what he already "knew" whereas I'm more in favour of bringing them out into the light and examining them from multiple angles so I guess that would make me the Anti-Powell... but that's all subjective, too...

[JDL]

 

 

Yes - some Native American cultures attribute spiritual aspects to what are clearly physical beings but the same cannot be said for Yeti/Bigfoot/Yowie which are spiritual beings attributed with "real" (flesh-and-blood) capabilities. See the difference? Yet both are perceived as real by those that already believe...

 

Seems like you've got it all figured out.  Of course you've never actually looked one in the eyes and you are so certain that you are right that you will not accept it if I tell you that I have. 

 

I don't see any point in going around and round with you.  Over the last several years I've had this same discussion with at least eight people who have presented similar, if not identical arguments.

 

You have a belief system.  Nothing more, no matter how you may attempt to cast it.

[Night Walker]

Sorry, I don't claim to have it worked all out but if I do ever look the International Hairy Man of Mystery in the eye I'll be sure to press click on my camera several times. I believe that you believe that you have looked one in the eye just as I believe several others that I have spoken to directly. I acknowledge that beliefs are an important part of the phenomena...

 

Of course I have a belief system - we all do - but I am also keen to exame it from various angles. Do you think that you do not have beliefs, that your beliefs cannot affect your perception and memory? I don't expect a response but I appreciate your input thus far...

 

 

Many believe the "gubmint" is directing their thoughts with microwaves. Doesn't make things true.

 

Sure but can you see that it is real/true for them? It may not be objectively accurate but it may be an honest subjective reflection of their experience(s). It is very real to them because it is supported by pre-existing cultural beliefs and is subsequently experienced as being real... this is very applicable to Yeti/Bigfoot/Yowie, is it not?

Edited November 15, 2015 by Night Walker

[JDL]

If you have a camera, and less likely if you aren't actually expecting the encounter.  I've never seen one by going out looking for one.

 

There's belief based on evidence provided by others, and then there is being forced to accept that they exist by coming face to face with something physically capable of ripping you in half (in my case in 1972 before I had ever even heard about them - not a story, not a legend).  And it can be disturbing to come to the sudden realization, as you are combatting your own fight or flight reflex, based on the way it examines you and stands there considering you, that it is as intelligent as any man, and that this massive, hair covered not-man is an actual threatening part of your world.  You go from clueless to understanding that something equally intelligent and physically superior is out there and may reappear at any time it chooses with undefined intentions.  You fall back on the hope that they are human enough to be no more of an unprovoked threat than the average actual homo sapiens. 

 

Look, Night Walker, you've been a member of the forum since January, 2011 - three months longer than I have.  You've posted 189 times.  I don't know if you have been an avid reader of the forum or an occasional and casual browser.  I do thank you for being respectful.  But I didn't join this forum to grapple with a never-ending queue of skeptics who derive amusement from the exchange.  That aspect of the forum has lost its appeal to me.  I'm here to share information with other people who take the existence of bigfoot seriously and consider and analyze what they have to offer.  I would ask that you do a little homework by going back through the forum to see how I and others have already responded to the various questions you may have.  When you've got something novel, I'll be happy to dialogue with you.  Until then, I hope to have a dialogue predicated on their existence that examines all of the follow-on questions brought up by the fact that they exist.  And I hope that there are enough others willing to participate who are undeterred by constant badgering and derision by aggressive skeptics who derail thread after thread.

[SWWASAS]

What reason would the Smithsonian have to continue a purported coverup at this stage in the game?

 

A minor researcher smuggling out a giganto fossil to present to Dr. Meldrum will have eternal fame.

 

I ain't buying the coverup soooo necessary for the dream to continue.

Because if a coverup is ever revealed to the public the public will realize that particular institution cannot be trusted and they will look at all the rest of the government agencies with the same suspicion.    Government does not want that kind of scrutiny.     A former director of the CIA said something like this about government secrecy.       I am paraphrasing.    If you tell the citizenry something today that makes them go to bed scared,   in the morning they are likely to get up and vote all the incumbent's out of office.    Just that keeps the lid on things that might scare the public.   

[Incorrigible1]

I would sleep blissfully through the trauma of learning the Smithsonian wasn't 100% truthful.

[Faenor]

The coverup would have occoured so long ago and whatever governing board runs the smithsonian would have turned over several times. If it was revealed today that the smithsonian had the skeletons of giants or Bigfoot the result would be dramatic increased interest in the institution including lots money. No one will be upset or scared by an old museum coverup of giants bones.

[SWWASAS]

If part of that coverup is the purposeful displacement of Native American peoples from their ancestral lands with some huge lie, the potential lawsuits and reparations could be in the billions. You don't think the government would care about that? Right now I suspect the Smithsonian has no idea what it has in storage. After all it is just another government entity, part of which is paying social security payments to 6.7 million Americans which their records show to be over 120 years old.

Edited November 16, 2015 by SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT

[Faenor]

Native Americans were screwed over everyone knows this. Their land was stolen they were slaughtered the price paid for being a conquered people. You learn this in elementary school these days. There is no lie and no government effort to hide it. Current politicians don't pay the price for wounded knee just as the current French politicians don't pay the price for Napoleon aggressions.

If a race of giants or Bigfoot comes out of hiding and asks for reparations some governor or senator will champion the cause, for popularity and votes, they will be granted some reservation in a national forest or whatever and some petty cash to spend in their Bigfoot/giant store. Everyone will feel good about it and be happy we did the right thing.

[Night Walker]

 

If you have a camera, and less likely if you aren't actually expecting the encounter.  I've never seen one by going out looking for one.

 

 

Yet lots of people do claim see one when going out specifically looking for them yet no photos (other than blobsquatches and fakes – but let’s not go there). I have my camera ready when searching for the Yowie, doesn’t everyone else do the same?

 

 

There's belief based on evidence provided by others, and then there is being forced to accept that they exist by coming face to face with something physically capable of ripping you in half (in my case in 1972 before I had ever even heard about them - not a story, not a legend).  And it can be disturbing to come to the sudden realization, as you are combatting your own fight or flight reflex, based on the way it examines you and stands there considering you, that it is as intelligent as any man, and that this massive, hair covered not-man is an actual threatening part of your world.  You go from clueless to understanding that something equally intelligent and physically superior is out there and may reappear at any time it chooses with undefined intentions.  You fall back on the hope that they are human enough to be no more of an unprovoked threat than the average actual homo sapiens. 

 

 

I believe that you believe you encountered Bigfoot. It accept that it must have been a significant and life-changing event for you but you must realize that your related experience is no more (or less) sincere and life-changing than many who believe they have also seen Bigfoot but it spoke to them telepathically, or it stepped through a dimensional portal, or onto a waiting spaceship…

 

I mean no offense but I am blunt in this respect – if you do not question the absolute reality of your unusual experience then how can you reject someone else’s? Just because it doesn’t conform to what you already “know†about Bigfoot? Isn’t that something that should be associated with being “a successor to Powell�

 

 

Look, Night Walker, you've been a member of the forum since January, 2011 - three months longer than I have.  You've posted 189 times.  I don't know if you have been an avid reader of the forum or an occasional and casual browser.  I do thank you for being respectful.  But I didn't join this forum to grapple with a never-ending queue of skeptics who derive amusement from the exchange.  That aspect of the forum has lost its appeal to me.  I'm here to share information with other people who take the existence of bigfoot seriously and consider and analyze what they have to offer.  I would ask that you do a little homework by going back through the forum to see how I and others have already responded to the various questions you may have.  When you've got something novel, I'll be happy to dialogue with you.  Until then, I hope to have a dialogue predicated on their existence that examines all of the follow-on questions brought up by the fact that they exist.  And I hope that there are enough others willing to participate who are undeterred by constant badgering and derision by aggressive skeptics who derail thread after thread.

 

If it took only one minute to search for, read, and cross-check each of your posts it would take me more than 2 full days of uninterrupted internet time – so, realistically, its not going to happen unless you can link me to specific threads/posts...

 

However, I want to find answers, too, so are you willing to discuss your sighting with me via PM?

[JDL]

 

 

If you have a camera, and less likely if you aren't actually expecting the encounter.  I've never seen one by going out looking for one.

 

 

Yet lots of people do claim see one when going out specifically looking for them yet no photos (other than blobsquatches and fakes – but let’s not go there). I have my camera ready when searching for the Yowie, doesn’t everyone else do the same?

 

 

There's belief based on evidence provided by others, and then there is being forced to accept that they exist by coming face to face with something physically capable of ripping you in half (in my case in 1972 before I had ever even heard about them - not a story, not a legend).  And it can be disturbing to come to the sudden realization, as you are combatting your own fight or flight reflex, based on the way it examines you and stands there considering you, that it is as intelligent as any man, and that this massive, hair covered not-man is an actual threatening part of your world.  You go from clueless to understanding that something equally intelligent and physically superior is out there and may reappear at any time it chooses with undefined intentions.  You fall back on the hope that they are human enough to be no more of an unprovoked threat than the average actual homo sapiens. 

 

 

I believe that you believe you encountered Bigfoot. It accept that it must have been a significant and life-changing event for you but you must realize that your related experience is no more (or less) sincere and life-changing than many who believe they have also seen Bigfoot but it spoke to them telepathically, or it stepped through a dimensional portal, or onto a waiting spaceship…

 

I mean no offense but I am blunt in this respect – if you do not question the absolute reality of your unusual experience then how can you reject someone else’s? Just because it doesn’t conform to what you already “know†about Bigfoot? Isn’t that something that should be associated with being “a successor to Powell�

 

 

Look, Night Walker, you've been a member of the forum since January, 2011 - three months longer than I have.  You've posted 189 times.  I don't know if you have been an avid reader of the forum or an occasional and casual browser.  I do thank you for being respectful.  But I didn't join this forum to grapple with a never-ending queue of skeptics who derive amusement from the exchange.  That aspect of the forum has lost its appeal to me.  I'm here to share information with other people who take the existence of bigfoot seriously and consider and analyze what they have to offer.  I would ask that you do a little homework by going back through the forum to see how I and others have already responded to the various questions you may have.  When you've got something novel, I'll be happy to dialogue with you.  Until then, I hope to have a dialogue predicated on their existence that examines all of the follow-on questions brought up by the fact that they exist.  And I hope that there are enough others willing to participate who are undeterred by constant badgering and derision by aggressive skeptics who derail thread after thread.

 

If it took only one minute to search for, read, and cross-check each of your posts it would take me more than 2 full days of uninterrupted internet time – so, realistically, its not going to happen unless you can link me to specific threads/posts...

 

However, I want to find answers, too, so are you willing to discuss your sighting with me via PM?

 

 

Yet you want me to invest that amount of time on your behalf as if you are the first and only skeptic with whom I have ever debated this?  And going back and reading the middle paragraph that you've written above, it appears that your own belief system would be an obstacle to the objective consideration of anything I have to say, even if you are polite about it.  If you don't have enough respect for me to DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK, then I see no point in carrying on a dialogue with you, just to cover old ground.

 

I don't have time for you unless you show me the respect of reading what I've already written in response to others who have asked the same questions in the past.

[Faenor]

Come on just answer the question. It shouldnt be his homework to research your posts to discern what your answer to his questions might be. That's crazy. You could just not respond or link to a previous post that answers the question.

[JDL]

No, Faenor, you are wrong.  I am badgered by skeptics like him incessantly who are certain that any direct witness is somehow mistaken and none of which really want to objectively consider what I have to say.  This is a screening process.  Why should I waste my time on him when I have already answered his questions before?

 

I'm a busy guy.  The CEO I and the rest of the Board hired to run the company I founded at 275k a year plus stock options starts today.  His job is to take us from early commercialization to full market.  There's a lot to do.  The first order of business is to sort out which of the people who want to invest will become investors.  They're lined up at the door and we don't need as much money as they are offering.  I don't want to dilute the existing shareholders any more than necessary.  On top of that, I need to finish up another patent application for filing; take care of the Power of Attorney filings for three non-US countries for the national stage filings of an earlier application; sign the assignment documents for yet another awarded patent, transferring ownership from myself to the company; review the final draft of a hospital study on our technology being submitted to the American Journal of Infection Control; wire funds to the company finishing up the design for our latest device; negotiate with a licensee that we are acquiring; conference with our accountants; coordinate with the Chicago division of a company that is adapting our technology for use in their food processing plants; coordinate with the University of North Carolina on an upcoming study; coordinate with another company performing due diligence testing with the intent to license our technology; and then travel to Pittsburgh for a three day conference with a Federal Agency that came to us with an interest in our technology.

 

When you see me on this forum it is because I am taking a short break.

[Twist]

I think it's pretty safe to say that most people, when on this forum are using it to take a break from their daily routine. Not sure any of us are actually paid to post on here. We all choose to participate of free will on a message board with the intention of having open dialogue. If you choose to not want to engage with him in this manner then just choose not to post. Not sure it was really advancing any discussion by explaining to all of us just how busy and important you are.

On another note, regarding the Smithsonian, is there any chance the Freedom of Information Act could find anything out? Would documents or information they have fall under this?

[Guest DWA]

I'll never get over bigfoot skeptics thinking that proponents need to convince them.  We can't get over their inability to think about things in a logical manner when it comes to this, and look upon that with pity and a sincere desire to educate.  But we not only don't need to convince them; we know for certain that the only thing that ever would is something that the logically minded, addressing this topic logically, don't need.