Has Bigfoot Science Stalled?

[FarArcher]

If one is ever captured, I'd imagine the US Army will be taking it over.

 

What a weapon.

[southernyahoo]

 

 

 

I dont have a lot of faith in DNA versus a body. Small samples can be destroyed in one test. Which means that other labs cannot verify your work with tests of their own. Samples get contaminated or lost as well.

DNA will absolutely do it if we can get through the hoops and loops. But a body bypasses all that.

But if DNA is all you have???? Its light years ahead of a plaster cast or grainy photo.

 

For the reasons you state in your first line:  plaster casts or grainy photos are, if I am a scientist in a relevant field, far better than a DNA sample.

 

For the latter I'll say:  where's your type specimen?  Don't have one?  Contamination is my clear dismissal.

 

I have to explain casts and photos.  Experts have virtually verified that the provenance of Patty and many tracks is an unlisted species.  The problem is that the society isn't holding science's feet to the fire for that alternative explanation...that they do not have.

That evidence leaves clear markers that rule out a human as the subject, and make fakery such a farfetched explanation that it isn't one.

 

 

 

DWA, Southern, and Norse can you expand your comments to improve clarity?

 

 

If bigfoot were anything other than (technically) human, it would be divergent enough to be distinguishable in relatively small amounts of mtDNA. That would be one way to prove they exist with multiple biological samples.  If my theory is right, being that I think that BF is from the genus homo and developed an entirely different survival strategy, then it's DNA may appear fully human but may have subtle (seemingly random) mutations that affect gene expression more than actual sequence which could look like ordinary human variation. Without deep study those kinds of things may never be fully identified.

 

I have my doubts that if a specimen were in hand, we could persue the study of it unfettered.  As soon as "human" DNA enters the picture, the ethics and protocol changes. Ownership of the specimen can then be challenged. Genetic sequence data then cannot be shared on a public data base without written consent of the donor which then blocks independent review.

 

So you could prove it with a body, but you might not be able to keep it long enough.....   Besides, the existence of wildmen is a crazy scary thing to drop on the world, even though Grizzly bears are likely more dangerous.

[SWWASAS]

If one is ever captured, I'd imagine the US Army will be taking it over.

 

What a weapon.

I mentioned it in the Media section but there is a must watch movie for anyone who is looking for BF body, skeleton, or fossil on public lands.     "Dinosaur 13" is about the legal battles over the discovery of Sue, the largest and most complete It is T Rex fossil find.    The Federal Government can come down on you like a ton of bricks.      it is available for streaming from Amazon. 

[norseman]

Hopefully someone like Norse will find a BF that died of old age so he won't be strapped with legal hassles.

 

This is the easy part, then what do you do with it?

 

After this sensation, how will BF be impacted?

 

How will management of the national forest change?

 

 

Here is my wife and I floating the Rogue River below Grants Pass Oregon. No BFs were seen but we looked for them and suppose they were sleeping in their beds.

Did you throw a rifle in your drift boat!?

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

 

 

 

 

I dont have a lot of faith in DNA versus a body. Small samples can be destroyed in one test. Which means that other labs cannot verify your work with tests of their own. Samples get contaminated or lost as well.

DNA will absolutely do it if we can get through the hoops and loops. But a body bypasses all that.

But if DNA is all you have???? Its light years ahead of a plaster cast or grainy photo.

 

For the reasons you state in your first line:  plaster casts or grainy photos are, if I am a scientist in a relevant field, far better than a DNA sample.

 

For the latter I'll say:  where's your type specimen?  Don't have one?  Contamination is my clear dismissal.

 

I have to explain casts and photos.  Experts have virtually verified that the provenance of Patty and many tracks is an unlisted species.  The problem is that the society isn't holding science's feet to the fire for that alternative explanation...that they do not have.

That evidence leaves clear markers that rule out a human as the subject, and make fakery such a farfetched explanation that it isn't one.

 

 

 

DWA, Southern, and Norse can you expand your comments to improve clarity?

 

 

If bigfoot were anything other than (technically) human, it would be divergent enough to be distinguishable in relatively small amounts of mtDNA. That would be one way to prove they exist with multiple biological samples.  If my theory is right, being that I think that BF is from the genus homo and developed an entirely different survival strategy, then it's DNA may appear fully human but may have subtle (seemingly random) mutations that affect gene expression more than actual sequence which could look like ordinary human variation. Without deep study those kinds of things may never be fully identified.

 

I have my doubts that if a specimen were in hand, we could persue the study of it unfettered.  As soon as "human" DNA enters the picture, the ethics and protocol changes. Ownership of the specimen can then be challenged. Genetic sequence data then cannot be shared on a public data base without written consent of the donor which then blocks independent review.

 

So you could prove it with a body, but you might not be able to keep it long enough.....   Besides, the existence of wildmen is a crazy scary thing to drop on the world, even though Grizzly bears are likely more dangerous.

 

I like the theory, kind of where I might come down with a bit more evidence.

[SWWASAS]

 

 

 

 

I dont have a lot of faith in DNA versus a body. Small samples can be destroyed in one test. Which means that other labs cannot verify your work with tests of their own. Samples get contaminated or lost as well.

DNA will absolutely do it if we can get through the hoops and loops. But a body bypasses all that.

But if DNA is all you have???? Its light years ahead of a plaster cast or grainy photo.

 

For the reasons you state in your first line:  plaster casts or grainy photos are, if I am a scientist in a relevant field, far better than a DNA sample.

 

For the latter I'll say:  where's your type specimen?  Don't have one?  Contamination is my clear dismissal.

 

I have to explain casts and photos.  Experts have virtually verified that the provenance of Patty and many tracks is an unlisted species.  The problem is that the society isn't holding science's feet to the fire for that alternative explanation...that they do not have.

That evidence leaves clear markers that rule out a human as the subject, and make fakery such a farfetched explanation that it isn't one.

 

 

 

DWA, Southern, and Norse can you expand your comments to improve clarity?

 

 

If bigfoot were anything other than (technically) human, it would be divergent enough to be distinguishable in relatively small amounts of mtDNA. That would be one way to prove they exist with multiple biological samples.  If my theory is right, being that I think that BF is from the genus homo and developed an entirely different survival strategy, then it's DNA may appear fully human but may have subtle (seemingly random) mutations that affect gene expression more than actual sequence which could look like ordinary human variation. Without deep study those kinds of things may never be fully identified.

 

I have my doubts that if a specimen were in hand, we could persue the study of it unfettered.  As soon as "human" DNA enters the picture, the ethics and protocol changes. Ownership of the specimen can then be challenged. Genetic sequence data then cannot be shared on a public data base without written consent of the donor which then blocks independent review.

 

So you could prove it with a body, but you might not be able to keep it long enough.....   Besides, the existence of wildmen is a crazy scary thing to drop on the world, even though Grizzly bears are likely more dangerous.

 

I just had a crazy thought.      Lets assume that BF is indeed some tribe of relic human with language.     We all conjecture if the government knows they are there.     What if the Government discovered them, actually made contact, and offered them the same protections as the Bureau of Indian Affairs.     My crazy thought is,  if BF watched what happened with all the other Native American Tribes:  land stolen,  displacement from traditional lands,   reservation system,   etc might a sentient BF tell the government they are not interested in protection and to leave them alone?    That might explain some of the strange wilderness areas that simply pop up without any publicity. 

[dmaker]

Good grief. Yeah, and of course there is no record whatsoever of this happening. Sounds legit...

[Twist]

Yeah, sounds pretty out there.  Do I hear the X-Files theme? 

[SWWASAS]

Well as the X-Files maintains, the truth is out there.    There is a lot of conjecture about BF and some of it has to be pretty close to true.    We may never know what.   

[MIB]

That might not be as crazy as it sounds. 

 

MIB

[SWWASAS]

Certainly if the government tried to make contact, given what little we know about BF, they would try to avoid such contact.      I just have to think that BF have watched the Native American experience with European emigrants and learned a thing to two.    That experience has included armed conflict and even genocide if the NA resisted,   introduction of disease into the NA population just by contact,   roundup and unwilling relocation,   and the reservation system.     Some of that may be understandable to a sentient creature and none of it would be perceived as a good thing.    Perhaps even the government learned from the NA experience, and realizes it may be easier just to ignore the BF issue and leave them alone.    Or even more remarkable that the governments has learned that the BF are the Native Americans and they predate the NA arrival from Asia during the last ice age.      How embarrassing to learn that you have "protected" just another group of emigrants at the detriment of the original ones.   

 

Even in the middle ages when the plague was going around,   and disease mechanisms not understood,   humans would not allow strangers into their small towns.     Just the arrival of disease with Europeans may have been enough to get BF to avoid contact.

Edited February 14, 2016 by SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT

[Twist]

Certainly if the government tried to make contact, given what little we know about BF, they would try to avoid such contact.      I just have to think that BF have watched the Native American experience with European emigrants and learned a thing to two.    That experience has included armed conflict and even genocide if the NA resisted,   introduction of disease into the NA population just by contact,   roundup and unwilling relocation,   and the reservation system.     Some of that may be understandable to a sentient creature and none of it would be perceived as a good thing.    Perhaps even the government learned from the NA experience, and realizes it may be easier just to ignore the BF issue and leave them alone.    Or even more remarkable that the governments has learned that the BF are the Native Americans and they predate the NA arrival from Asia during the last ice age.      How embarrassing to learn that you have "protected" just another group of emigrants at the detriment of the original ones.   

 

Such an embarrassment would definitely not be new territory for our government lol. 

 

Your theory, while I do believe is out there, is predicated on the idea that we could communicate with BF, I'm not sure I'm ready to go down that road personally.

[Incorrigible1]

 There is a lot of conjecture about BF and some of it has to be pretty close to true.

Why would that be? Why would it have to be close to truth? Sorry, but illogical.

[SWWASAS]

My theory only requires that the government has tried to make contact.     If they succeeded or not would be up to BF.     Certainly if BF has any sort of even rudimentary language the government might try.    I just hope that attempt, if it has happened, was not as heavy handed as the government is known for.    For me there are some uncomfortable rumors of military operations related to BF.    That could be entirely independent and unknown to government natural resources people.    It is not like the various government agencies actually talk to each other.     The military/intelligence agencies actually spy on the other ones to find out what is going on.    

 

 There is a lot of conjecture about BF and some of it has to be pretty close to true.

Why would that be? Why would it have to be close to truth? Sorry, but illogical.

 

That is illogical only if your premise is that BF does not exist.     I have advanced many theories and the more I do, the more likely some of them might be at least in part true.  

Edited February 14, 2016 by SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT

[Guest Crowlogic]

I refuse to play Woods & Wildmen and the Woods & Wildmen players say I'm certifiable.  Sure biggie is a human and a smart one who sees through the veil of the white man's lies perpetrated on the red men.  OK anything you say.  Let the good times roll this is Woods & Wildmen.