Has Bigfoot Science Stalled?

[georgerm]

I don't think small grants are the answer to anything.    $2500 to $3500 dollars is chump change if I add up what I have self funded to support my own research.   The problem is not money.    It is knowing enough about BF to conduct repeatable research whereby you can locate, study,  and document BF activity.        As in real estate location location location is key.    You cannot study something you cannot consistently find.    I see the key is someone that knows what to look for finding a BF laire,  nest, or camps if they have such a thing,  and being able to observe that location for a considerable period of time.   That takes field work, boots on the ground,   and the skills necessary to pull that off without the BF knowing you are around.    Or if they know you are around, accepting your presence in a Jane Goodall sort of way.      The person most capable is not some PHD who has to be reminded to tie his shoes before he leaves the house and heads off to campus but someone with considerable woodman skills who knows what to do when they locate a BF tribe, be it observe or take a specimen.     That breakthrough will require the right person to have the right contact and an extreme amount of luck in the first place.        

 

 

 

Your arguments makes sense and in some cases there are always down sides to a plan such a mine. Sure the clutsy PHD primatologist may be the one in charge of bigfoot research. Sure they may wander through Poison Oak, camp on an ant pile, or look at the cricket sound coming from a fern.  My Mom did when she parted the fern and was looking in the face of a Timber Rattle Snake! She had the sense to back slowly away as I watched. However, some  PHDs are clever, practical, and smart so why would they want to risk life and limb camping in the middle of bigfoot country? Many primatologist are really smart, and they include good field researchers that know the area and bigfoots.

 

SWWA, from your post, you would be a good person to team up with the primatologist. We have many researchers on the forum that would qualify too. You are close to U of W so seek out a zoologist, and you may be the one to nail down the BF facts.

 

SWWA don't feel like your research won't be noticed and some hot shot PHD will ridicule your efforts. Find one you can work with. You need them, they need you, and you may break the shell of bigfoot and academic science. Academic science = field workers + phd + $50k grant money = peer review paper + more grant money.

 

Some grants start at $2500, are renewable, and can be increased depending on the peer review paper presented.  I can help someone write up a grant, but they need to first find the primatologist. Second they need to have a good research area, evidence, and being a 'habber' would help. Living in Oregon, Washington, or Northern California would help.   

 

have a good BF day all ............  have fun

[georgerm]

Lets examine just for a moment the purported behavior patterns of these critters.  They're masters at hiding, They're masters at getting around at night.  They don't leave a lot of sign. They seem to have a fair degree of intelligence.  The appear to be tactically sound.

 

Now.

 

A bunch of academia is going to go into the forests, mountains, and woodlands, and make discoveries?

 

Not in this universe.

 

Grants or no grants.

 

Good points but one concept was left out. The academic primatologist teams up with the experienced field researcher like SWWA, Shadowborn, Leaftalker, and  others. Now we have the power of science. Who else qualifies? If I left your name off, sorry.

 

Who are the field researchers and what are their qualifications, years at it, and so on.

Edited March 18, 2016 by georgerm

[Guest Crowlogic]

Psssst hey folks we don't need grants and massive hunts.  We have habbers right here in River City who could lead Dr's Jeff, Jane, and John right to the clan where the thing could be a done deal in short order.  But gee I keep forgetting that the habbers deserve their special quietude in spite of the fact that many of them blab their habbing to the world.

 

But think about it.  Some of the habbers are well known to bigfootism and some have appeared along side some of the pro heavies.  Why do you suppose the pro heavies have never teamed up with the habbers and visa versa?  Is it because the habbers know they are spinning yarns and the pros don't believe them anyway?  Well if the habbers avoid the pros and the pros discount the habbers seems like not a lot of faith in the subject to begin with.  As usual nothing in bigfootism makes sense when compared with real animals and real science.

Lets examine just for a moment the purported behavior patterns of these critters.  They're masters at hiding, They're masters at getting around at night.  They don't leave a lot of sign. They seem to have a fair degree of intelligence.  The appear to be tactically sound.

 

Now.

 

A bunch of academia is going to go into the forests, mountains, and woodlands, and make discoveries?

 

Not in this universe.

 

Grants or no grants.

Ahhh no you won't get the lilly livered profs out there for long grueling stretches.  But you will get graduate students recruited by the pros.  This BTW is how most field work gets accomplished.  Go to a dinosaur dig and you'll see youngster students outnumbering the Profs 20 to 1.  This is how I did my field research as a grad student.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Crowlogic

[SWWASAS]

 

I don't think small grants are the answer to anything.    $2500 to $3500 dollars is chump change if I add up what I have self funded to support my own research.   The problem is not money.    It is knowing enough about BF to conduct repeatable research whereby you can locate, study,  and document BF activity.        As in real estate location location location is key.    You cannot study something you cannot consistently find.    I see the key is someone that knows what to look for finding a BF laire,  nest, or camps if they have such a thing,  and being able to observe that location for a considerable period of time.   That takes field work, boots on the ground,   and the skills necessary to pull that off without the BF knowing you are around.    Or if they know you are around, accepting your presence in a Jane Goodall sort of way.      The person most capable is not some PHD who has to be reminded to tie his shoes before he leaves the house and heads off to campus but someone with considerable woodman skills who knows what to do when they locate a BF tribe, be it observe or take a specimen.     That breakthrough will require the right person to have the right contact and an extreme amount of luck in the first place.        

 

 

 

Your arguments makes sense and in some cases there are always down sides to a plan such a mine. Sure the clutsy PHD primatologist may be the one in charge of bigfoot research. Sure they may wander through Poison Oak, camp on an ant pile, or look at the cricket sound coming from a fern.  My Mom did when she parted the fern and was looking in the face of a Timber Rattle Snake! She had the sense to back slowly away as I watched. However, some  PHDs are clever, practical, and smart so why would they want to risk life and limb camping in the middle of bigfoot country? Many primatologist are really smart, and they include good field researchers that know the area and bigfoots.

 

SWWA, from your post, you would be a good person to team up with the primatologist. We have many researchers on the forum that would qualify too. You are close to U of W so seek out a zoologist, and you may be the one to nail down the BF facts.

 

SWWA don't feel like your research won't be noticed and some hot shot PHD will ridicule your efforts. Find one you can work with. You need them, they need you, and you may break the shell of bigfoot and academic science. Academic science = field workers + phd + $50k grant money = peer review paper + more grant money.

 

Some grants start at $2500, are renewable, and can be increased depending on the peer review paper presented.  I can help someone write up a grant, but they need to first find the primatologist. Second they need to have a good research area, evidence, and being a 'habber' would help. Living in Oregon, Washington, or Northern California would help.   

 

have a good BF day all ............  have fun

 

Three years when I was having contact very frequently, I might have taken your advice and gone shopping for a primatologist.      But my research area has gone cold and I cannot figure out where they went.    I don't think they would enjoy a tour of where I used to have experiences.     Should I re-establish contact I may start looking for someone.     As BTW has found, you have to be careful about that too.   You might get more than you want.     But even that search requires you to have something persuasive to show an academic.    You have to get past the just another loony bigfooter thing at first contact with something concrete to show.     And I don't think footprint casts will do the trick.    Meldrum has hundreds and cannot persuade academia.     

[georgerm]

Psssst hey folks we don't need grants and massive hunts.  We have habbers right here in River City who could lead Dr's Jeff, Jane, and John right to the clan where the thing could be a done deal in short order.  But gee I keep forgetting that the habbers deserve their special quietude in spite of the fact that many of them blab their habbing to the world.

 

But think about it.  Some of the habbers are well known to bigfootism and some have appeared along side some of the pro heavies.  Why do you suppose the pro heavies have never teamed up with the habbers and visa versa?  Is it because the habbers know they are spinning yarns and the pros don't believe them anyway?  Well if the habbers avoid the pros and the pros discount the habbers seems like not a lot of faith in the subject to begin with.  As usual nothing in bigfootism makes sense when compared with real animals and real science.

 

 

Pro heavies ................. hmm .............. that's a new name. Don't confuse them with prokillers.

 

No offense for my bluntness but I need to speak some truths here. Where do you get the uninformed notion that all habbers are 'spinning yarns'?  A positive attitude helps move science forward along with common sense. Common sense tells me some habber stories are true and some are not. It's my job to ferret out the true reports, and trash the yarns. Why do you not get this?

 

If you were really a grad student on digs, you should be smart enough to know that some tips or reports are true and some false. Right!

 

Can you tell about your grad student experiences so I know who I'm talking with. PM me if needed.

 

If a farmer comes to you and says Crow, "I found a T-Rex in my corn field or a den of bigfoots on my forest land", are you going to insult him and loose a find? Probably. This is why the other researcher with a positive attitude will bring in the goods.

 

A positive attitude helps move science forward.  A 'can-do' attitude it what it takes. It takes a team at times such as a habber and one good, researchers that can keep a location secret. SWWA is my pick and wish I was a habber.

Edited March 18, 2016 by georgerm

[Guest Crowlogic]

 

Psssst hey folks we don't need grants and massive hunts.  We have habbers right here in River City who could lead Dr's Jeff, Jane, and John right to the clan where the thing could be a done deal in short order.  But gee I keep forgetting that the habbers deserve their special quietude in spite of the fact that many of them blab their habbing to the world.

 

But think about it.  Some of the habbers are well known to bigfootism and some have appeared along side some of the pro heavies.  Why do you suppose the pro heavies have never teamed up with the habbers and visa versa?  Is it because the habbers know they are spinning yarns and the pros don't believe them anyway?  Well if the habbers avoid the pros and the pros discount the habbers seems like not a lot of faith in the subject to begin with.  As usual nothing in bigfootism makes sense when compared with real animals and real science.

 

 

Pro heavies ................. hmm .............. that's a new name. Don't confuse them with prokillers.

 

No offense for my bluntness but I need to speak some truths here. Where do you get the uninformed notion that all habbers are 'spinning yarns'?  A positive attitude helps move science forward along with common sense. Common sense tells me some habber stories are true and some are not. It's my job to ferret out the true reports, and trash the yarns. Why do you not get this?

 

If you were really a grad student on digs, you should be smart enough to know that some tips or reports are true and some false. Right!

 

Can you tell about your grad student experiences so I know who I'm talking with. PM me if needed.

 

If a farmer comes to you and says Crow, "I found a T-Rex in my corn field or a den of bigfoots on my forest land", are you going to insult him and loose a find? Probably. This is why the other researcher with a positive attitude will bring in the goods.

 

A positive attitude helps move science forward.  A 'can-do' attitude it what it takes. It takes a team at times such as a habber and one good, researchers that can keep a location secret. SWWA is my pick and wish I was a habber.

 

Well now Not one single habber ever providing a singe scrap of evidence to the bigfoot community is a good place to start with the discounting.  That every habber situation ever investigated has returned woo, and fantasy.  Enoch and Ms Coy comes to mind.

 

You say common sense tells you some habber stories are true?  What kind of common sense are you employing that we are dealing with a subject (bigfoot) that hasn't provided a single molecule of credible evidence anywhere such reports exist in the world.  But this somehow evokes common sense that there must be people intimate with these things?  Intimate with something that is perpetually off all legitimate radar. 

 

As a grad student I was not digging fossils although I rubbed shoulders with those who did.  I was engaged in doing research in the acidification of lake water.  I spent many hundreds of hours in some of the best wilderness in the region often for weeks on end.  Sometimes with an assistant and sometimes not.  However my benefactor who was overseeing the project never once stepped foot in the forest.  Grunt science is seldom performed by PHD's.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Crowlogic

[FarArcher]

 

Lets examine just for a moment the purported behavior patterns of these critters.  They're masters at hiding, They're masters at getting around at night.  They don't leave a lot of sign. They seem to have a fair degree of intelligence.  The appear to be tactically sound.

 

Now.

 

A bunch of academia is going to go into the forests, mountains, and woodlands, and make discoveries?

 

Not in this universe.

 

Grants or no grants.

 

Good points but one concept was left out. The academic primatologist teams up with the experienced field researcher like SWWA, Shadowborn, Leaftalker, and  others. Now we have the power of science. Who else qualifies? If I left your name off, sorry.

 

Who are the field researchers and what are their qualifications, years at it, and so on.

 

 

I caught flak for mentioning my previous profession - but I can't help who I am and what I was.

 

A significant portion of my work was hunting men, and another significant portion of my work was long range recon work - we were to avoid contact if at all possible, and simply find, observe, note, count, and report movement of our opponents.

 

Five men was a bunch to keep quiet and hidden.  Five was about the absolute limit one could hope to hide.  Once in an overlook position, we would remain pretty much motionless for 72 hours.  When a regiment sized unit was passing, they took a break right in front of us.  One stepped between my head and my extended hand - but we remained undetected.

 

I have a fair idea of what's possible in hiding, observing, or traversing - and that's with very skilled, very practiced, highly trained team members.  The "professionals" from academia are going to be trying to detect this large animal.  I think that's entirely the wrong mindset, and I have personal reasons for that belief.  

 

If you're hunting one thing, but it's something much different that you assume, you're already on a fail.

Edited March 19, 2016 by FarArcher

[Yuchi1]

^^^ That's how the photographs of a burial event were captured....long-range capable equipment wherein the operative was able to attain such from a stand off position. Got spotting scope?

[georgerm]

 

 

Lets examine just for a moment the purported behavior patterns of these critters.  They're masters at hiding, They're masters at getting around at night.  They don't leave a lot of sign. They seem to have a fair degree of intelligence.  The appear to be tactically sound.

 

Now.

 

A bunch of academia is going to go into the forests, mountains, and woodlands, and make discoveries?

 

Not in this universe.

 

Grants or no grants.

 

Good points but one concept was left out. The academic primatologist teams up with the experienced field researcher like SWWA, Shadowborn, Leaftalker, and  others. Now we have the power of science. Who else qualifies? If I left your name off, sorry.

 

Who are the field researchers and what are their qualifications, years at it, and so on.

 

 

I caught flak for mentioning my previous profession - but I can't help who I am and what I was.

 

A significant portion of my work was hunting men, and another significant portion of my work was long range recon work - we were to avoid contact if at all possible, and simply find, observe, note, count, and report movement of our opponents.

 

Five men was a bunch to keep quiet and hidden.  Five was about the absolute limit one could hope to hide.  Once in an overlook position, we would remain pretty much motionless for 72 hours.  When a regiment sized unit was passing, they took a break right in front of us.  One stepped between my head and my extended hand - but we remained undetected.

 

I have a fair idea of what's possible in hiding, observing, or traversing - and that's with very skilled, very practiced, highly trained team members.  The "professionals" from academia are going to be trying to detect this large animal.  I think that's entirely the wrong mindset, and I have personal reasons for that belief.  

 

If you're hunting one thing, but it's something much different that you assume, you're already on a fail.

 

 

Would you be opposed to teaming up with a primatologist that stays in the base camp while the recon people spend the night in the forest? Both are working from opposite ends to get the job done.

 

We were USMC combat engineers reserves 1969 - 1975, and were capable of building some really fine deep forest camps. The camp would be so comfortable the primatologist and recon people would stay for the whole summer.  If bigfoot needed a home, we could blow holes in the mountain sides with C-4 inserted with electric primers and wired to a battery source.

^^^ That's how the photographs of a burial event were captured....long-range capable equipment wherein the operative was able to attain such from a stand off position. Got spotting scope?

 

 

Can you post a URL and tell more about this?

[Yuchi1]

^^^ Those photos were on a private website and were later removed when said site was hacked.

[FarArcher]

 

 

 

Lets examine just for a moment the purported behavior patterns of these critters.  They're masters at hiding, They're masters at getting around at night.  They don't leave a lot of sign. They seem to have a fair degree of intelligence.  The appear to be tactically sound.

 

Now.

 

A bunch of academia is going to go into the forests, mountains, and woodlands, and make discoveries?

 

Not in this universe.

 

Grants or no grants.

 

Good points but one concept was left out. The academic primatologist teams up with the experienced field researcher like SWWA, Shadowborn, Leaftalker, and  others. Now we have the power of science. Who else qualifies? If I left your name off, sorry.

 

Who are the field researchers and what are their qualifications, years at it, and so on.

 

 

I caught flak for mentioning my previous profession - but I can't help who I am and what I was.

 

A significant portion of my work was hunting men, and another significant portion of my work was long range recon work - we were to avoid contact if at all possible, and simply find, observe, note, count, and report movement of our opponents.

 

Five men was a bunch to keep quiet and hidden.  Five was about the absolute limit one could hope to hide.  Once in an overlook position, we would remain pretty much motionless for 72 hours.  When a regiment sized unit was passing, they took a break right in front of us.  One stepped between my head and my extended hand - but we remained undetected.

 

I have a fair idea of what's possible in hiding, observing, or traversing - and that's with very skilled, very practiced, highly trained team members.  The "professionals" from academia are going to be trying to detect this large animal.  I think that's entirely the wrong mindset, and I have personal reasons for that belief.  

 

If you're hunting one thing, but it's something much different that you assume, you're already on a fail.

 

 

Would you be opposed to teaming up with a primatologist that stays in the base camp while the recon people spend the night in the forest? Both are working from opposite ends to get the job done.

 

We were USMC combat engineers reserves 1969 - 1975, and were capable of building some really fine deep forest camps. The camp would be so comfortable the primatologist and recon people would stay for the whole summer.  If bigfoot needed a home, we could blow holes in the mountain sides with C-4 inserted with electric primers and wired to a battery source.

^^^ That's how the photographs of a burial event were captured....long-range capable equipment wherein the operative was able to attain such from a stand off position. Got spotting scope?

 

 

Can you post a URL and tell more about this?

 

 

Just my opinion, but I have good reason to believe that's the wrong approach.  Doesn't matter if the primatologist is quiet and follows directions perfectly, he's still a burden on many levels.

 

My approach is all about maximizing results and minimizing risks.  Just like when hunting men.  Except these things have additional abilities men don't have, and are even more tuned to their environment.

 

Yeah, haha!  A kindred skill set.  One of my four MOS's was the team engineer.  I used C-4 to heat my coffee and boil water for my LRRP rations.

[ShadowBorn]

Fararcher

 

Either way that one looks at this and how it is approached you still have Murphy law to  contend with, and this is a fact in my personal opinion. This fact has happen to my self over and over with proper planning, yet Murphy played his part and I made sure I did not make that mistake again. My only problem is,  if I can remember the mistake I made that made them mad then I be ok.  

[bipedalist]

FarArcher, no disrespect for your skills or service either one, but we have accounts of SF personnel doing double duty as BF trackers and researchers, all they have accomplished is getting their ass escorted out of same areas as a common Joe might trip upon, at night or during daylight.   This has played out over and over again on this forum.   It is truly an ad nauseum event to hear every peep with special skills tell us how a special cut from a special bolt of cloth is what is needed, required and only the most effective option.  Sorry, but it doesn't play with this band. 

Edited March 20, 2016 by bipedalist

[FarArcher]

FarArcher, no disrespect for your skills or service either one, but we have accounts of SF personnel doing double duty as BF trackers and researchers, all they have accomplished is getting their ass escorted out of same areas as a common Joe might trip upon, at night or during daylight.   This has played out over and over again on this forum.   It is truly an ad nauseum event to hear every peep with special skills tell us how a special cut from a special bolt of cloth is what is needed, required and only the most effective option.  Sorry, but it doesn't play with this band. 

 

Have no intention of interfering with you tooting your little horn - whatever kind of band you got.  Not musically inclined on my end.

 

In the first place, I'm not going to "track" anything.  I'm not going to "hunt" anything.  I'm not going to be "seeking" anything.  So much for these supposed SF personnel with researchers.  They obviously don't have a clue as to what they're about.  People are simply not doing their homework.  This isn't about a hunting trip.  You're not going to stalk them.  You're not going to run one down.  You're not going to track one.  You're not going to find them.

 

Comparison of me with SF personnel isn't exactly fair.  I also served in Co. H, 75th Inf Rangers (LRRP), and Co. O, 75th Inf Arctic Rangers.  Also with the 82nd, 101st, and 1st Cav.  You see, SF are primarily teachers - if one wishes to get technical.  In the process of my misspent youth, I picked up four MOS's, one bullet hole and shrapnel. 

 

As far as whatever's played out over and over on this forum, I haven't heard one single thing yet that has ANY commonalities with what I'll do IF I go after one.  Nothing.  Nada.  I seem to have folks telling me why I can't, entirely based on erroneous assumptions.  Some may mistakenly assume I think too much of my skills.  My success will have nothing to do with stalking or hunting skills.  Absolutely - zero.  

 

It's just that I learned a thing or two sharing a mountain with them for a few months.

 

If I go, I'll go to an isolated area and remain for a minimum of three months.  Allowing for four, but a minimum of three.

 

Not three days.  Not three weeks.  Three months.  Further, I'll be spending just under four hundred grand to have Mr. Murphy to sit this one out.  

 

As I've said - I don't hunt them.  I'm not wasting my time.

 

I go, I'll get a good return on my investment.

 

Or I won't go.

[FarArcher]

^^^ That's how the photographs of a burial event were captured....long-range capable equipment wherein the operative was able to attain such from a stand off position. Got spotting scope?

 

Yeah, I have a couple of spotting scopes, but Yuchi, I don't look for these things.

 

You're for certain correct about long-range capable equipment.  If I go back, I'll be taking about $175K in some trick technologies - some of which I can't believe cost so much!  

 

Or, I won't go.  No use wasting time or a dollar.