Yuchi1 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 What is your evidence such habitat alteration is a threat to the species? Or, is it merely speculation and as such being appropriated to buttress a position (killing one) that has no actual foundation in truth? Such logic appears to be along the lines of those contending than man and man alone is the cause of global warming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) It is merely speculation, absolutely. Because REAL Biology does not recognize the species, therefore we cannot know one way or the other. This question is not on the plate of science. But how has other large omnivores such as the Grizzly bear fared in the last 50 years? Without the endangered species act? They would be extinct in the lower 48. So if habitat loss has effected one large omnivore adversely in the last 50 years. Is it not logical to worry about any others that are undiscovered to science? I say yes. I realize talking to you that you seem to be a government conspiracy theorist type that doesnt trust science. So let me ask you this Yuchi? What is your data for the health of Sasquatch populations in bluff creek? Should we be worried? How many acres in the last 50 years have been logged? What have the Salmon run numbers done in recent years?If we are not going to trust science or the government them we cannot trust their numbers. So what data have you come up with independently that makes you confident that Sasquatch are just fine in N. California? Edited March 23, 2016 by norseman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgerm Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 Your still not seeing it Yuchi.....the lack of humanity IS sparing the single individual. By that action alone you risk the species. Its not bullets that threatens this species....its bulldozers, golf courses and asphalt. What is your evidence such habitat alteration is a threat to the species? Or, is it merely speculation and as such being appropriated to buttress a position (killing one) that has no actual foundation in truth? Such logic appears to be along the lines of those contending than man and man alone is the cause of global warming. Nice to see two honest guys, each describing the heads or tails side of the 'bigfoot coin' in a respectful manner. Each is right in their logic and each is wrong in a way. Some individuals may feel bad for the rest of their days if they shot bigfoot............... follow your heart ....... know your target. Also, Bigfoot Habitat is being ruined in my opinion. Norse then made a sacrifice for bigfoot. How they make it out there is a mystery. For understanding of the problem, we need to understand the knowledge hidden in the coin. The coin encompasses the Douglas Fir forest and other forest of the USA. What is the problem? Our burning curiosity of bigfoot is frustrating us. r. Yuchi, it sounds like you are not in a heavy logging state like my state of Oregon is an probably Norse's state. Logging is still extreme here in some places that does hurt the salmon and steelhead runs by raising water temperatures and silt. Bigfoot like fish. After logging, Douglas Fir seedlings are planted then annually they are sprayed when they should be hand weeded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Thanks George, glad to see someone else sees it too. And lets talk about global warming, man made or nature or something in between its certainly here. Salmon stocks in california are struggling with extinction. Its too warm. http://e360.yale.edu/feature/for_california_salmon_drought_and_warm_water_mean_trouble/2834/ And dont think for a second that Im jaded in my approach, ive logged some and my business is partially in the oilfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Here is a article about GW, forests and beetles. http://e360.yale.edu/feature/how_science_can_help_to_halt_the_western_bark_beetle_plague/2944/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKH Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Habitat for everything is being ruined, but nature is thankfully resilient. So are the hairy folks, and they are not just animals of the forests, but nearly every habitat. That they're not diminished by the twentieth century adventures of humankind is one of the most amazing things I have ever learned. Mine and others' evidence has actually been that they are fairly common. The areas I've gathered from generally range from rural to suburban, except for a camping trip here and there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crowlogic Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 ^Ouch that's all ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuchi1 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Georgerm, Norseman and I simply agree to disagree and while I understand his fortitude, the fact he has absolutely no working knowledge of his quarry is (IMO) a recipe for personal disaster however, it's still somewhat of a free country. Oklahoma does have extensive logging ongoing and as far as anyone can determine, it's had no detrimental effect on the big guys. As a matter of fact, whitetail deer, turkey, quail, rabbit, et. al. populations (food sources for BF) are thriving via the selective cut timber operations in the Kiamichi mountains as it opens up a bounty of both forage and then heavy cover for them to exist within. The grizzly bear and the wolf were exterminated because they were considered a threat to humans and a definite negative for domesticated livestock production, across the west, etc.. As far as I know, BF has not been found guilty in either instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTreeWalker Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Here is a article about GW, forests and beetles. http://e360.yale.edu/feature/how_science_can_help_to_halt_the_western_bark_beetle_plague/2944/ That is scary Norse. For the very reason that trees sequester carbon. They are our air cleaners and filters. Wildlife populations are also on the decrease in the world. http://wwf.panda.org/about_our_earth/all_publications/living_planet_report/ This is a quote from the PDF that's posted there. "This latest edition of the Living Planet Report is not for the fainthearted. One key point that jumps out and captures the overall picture is that the Living Planet Index (LPI), which measures more than 10,000 representative populations of mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians and fish, has declined by 52 per cent since 1970. Put another way, in less than two human generations, population sizes of vertebrate species have dropped by half. These are the living forms that constitute the fabric of the ecosystems which sustain life on Earth – and the barometer of what we are doing to our own planet, our only home. We ignore their decline at our peril." We don't even know how all this would affect bigfoot being an unrecognized species. But anything that affects other species probably does affect them as well as us eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) Georgerm, Norseman and I simply agree to disagree and while I understand his fortitude, the fact he has absolutely no working knowledge of his quarry is (IMO) a recipe for personal disaster however, it's still somewhat of a free country. Oklahoma does have extensive logging ongoing and as far as anyone can determine, it's had no detrimental effect on the big guys. As a matter of fact, whitetail deer, turkey, quail, rabbit, et. al. populations (food sources for BF) are thriving via the selective cut timber operations in the Kiamichi mountains as it opens up a bounty of both forage and then heavy cover for them to exist within. The grizzly bear and the wolf were exterminated because they were considered a threat to humans and a definite negative for domesticated livestock production, across the west, etc.. As far as I know, BF has not been found guilty in either instance. You have no "working" knowledge of the species either, and what you do know? Is extremely LIMITED to one small geographical area. In NO WAY do you the time, resources or knowledge to tackle the big picture! Take an honest look a real biology studies! How do they operate? And Yuchi, I highly suggest you do take your local bush knowledge that you have and prove the species REAL. If you PM me that you have the goods and they are positive, I'll stand down! I have zero animosity towards Sasquatch.....quite the opposite. I see shooting one in the name of science as a necessary evil. If you can prove me wrong and do it in a non invasive way? I will rejoice. Edited March 23, 2016 by norseman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuchi1 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Norseman, The "working knowledge" I have is predicated upon personal encounters/observations and multiple/detailed conversations with friends that have also had the same type experiences. In that respect, it would appear you are still a "babe in the wildnerness" regarding all things BF related. Not a slam toward you, just an observation of the situation. I did chuckle with your "zero animosity towards Sasquatch" comment...reminded me of the mob movie Goodfellows when before offing a dude the mobster said, "nothing personal guy, it's just business".\ BTW, we are working diligently on the skeletal remains avenue and will keep you posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Please do. And I have never claimed to be a Sasquatch "expert", but scientifically speaking I understand that no such thing exists. There isnt much knowledge to be gained by an observation... it cannot tell you hard data. I.e. Gestation period, does it hibernate, how well does it see in the dark, what does it eat and what season, breeding age, do they pair bond, etc, etc. Only an army of biologists are going to be able to answer questions like that, and no proof? No army of biologists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgerm Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 Norseman, The "working knowledge" I have is predicated upon personal encounters/observations and multiple/detailed conversations with friends that have also had the same type experiences. In that respect, it would appear you are still a "babe in the wildnerness" regarding all things BF related. Not a slam toward you, just an observation of the situation. I did chuckle with your "zero animosity towards Sasquatch" comment...reminded me of the mob movie Goodfellows when before offing a dude the mobster said, "nothing personal guy, it's just business".\ BTW, we are working diligently on the skeletal remains avenue and will keep you posted. Can you word things so it's not a put down and we all will learn more. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarArcher Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Well boys, I'm a bit different from either of you. Always, low in my conscious background, I know there's a boggerman out there, and what's troubling is that so many others DON'T know there's a boogerman out there. I've read the narratives of folks and families that go out to enjoy the outdoors, and under very unusual circumstances - someone - worst of all - children disappear. Out of curiosity or as a food source, both possibilities trouble me. It troubles me doubly as so many people are either disbelievers, or worse - ignorant of what's out there. I know what's out there now, but I didn't most of my life. I want it recognized and realized. So everyone will at least be aware that pumas, bears, wolves and coyotes are not the only potential threats. So, I want one dead - at my feet. I won't second guess myself, I won't concern myself over it. My sensitivity toward humanity as such was abandoned as a young man - as a matter of survival - so my sensitivities are not my foremost thoughts, and my sensitivities don't motivate or limit my determinations. I don't care about their affected habitat, I don't care about their regional limitations, and I don't care about any other environmental sensitivities. I know its not human. It may be half human, but it's definitely not human. 96% of our DNA is the exact same as a chimpanzee. 99% isn't human. 99.5% isn't human. And that's all I need to know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 ^^^Well that is part of what Ive been saying that people NEED to know. But that doesnt mean I want them eradicated like wild boar either. But some warning signs and do and dont pamphlets would go a long way. Whats some of the 411 donts? Dont hike alone Dont wear bright clothes Dont hike in storms Dont let children out of your sight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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