Has Bigfoot Science Stalled?

[Guest Crowlogic]

 

I just cannot see how we can make a population estimate based on a couple of decades of people trying to make that determination.    If we had good data from 100 years ago and good data from the present we might be able to extrapolate trends but we have neither.        Something just came out a couple of days ago about a new study about the dinosaur extinction.   While the asteroid 65 million years ago hurried up the extinction process,   it seems that the population was in decline for several hundred thousand years before the asteroid impact.     Species were going extinct at a greater rate than new species were being evolved more adapted to the climate changes.     Climate change and continental drift were thought to be the major factors.     

 

Lets say that a small BF clan does require a 100 square miles.     What happened when the clan I was involved with moved?   They do not seem to be there any more.   If they moved did they intrude into another clans 100 square miles of territory?   Somehow I think if territory is important to them they will defend it with the possibility of injury or death.     That cannot be good for perpetuation of a species.    Any mortality from any cause drags down the population.  Throw mankind and clear cut logging into the mix and we have tribes of BF forced to move when trees mature and are logged.     Deer may like clear cuts because of the growth of grass but BF needs cover to avoid us.  

 

 

SWWA, what we see, and what is there have nothing to do with each other.  

 

Long range recon teams of five to six members are accustomed to ingressing to a well used line of approach and identifying and counting vehicles and personnel - without any of the five or six ever being detected.  For days.  Hundreds and on occasion thousands pass by in close proximity - and never see a thing.

 

Folks assume since they're smarter, they'll automatically see anything in their area - but they're also assuming a dumb animal not having enough sense to actually hide from them.  Throw in a built-in ghillie suit, and these things can look like a rock, blend with a tree, and even lay low in grass and low shrubbery.  Everyone expecting to see something over six feet tall, likely in a semi-open area is going to be mighty disappointed.

 

I just don't think these are dumb animals.

 

SWWASSASQUATCH has brought up an excellent point.  We're ripping down the forests faster than they regrow.  Yet this isn't going to affect bigfoot population?  That reeks of the perpetual movement of the bigfoot goalposts that is another way of saying it's an excuse to rationalize the the existence of the thing.   However part of that rationalization is that bigfoot is more than an animal and possessing intelligence.  Well it has no known culture, no known tool use, no known use of fire and no known language.   So how is this an intelligent creature?  How is this going to be an adaptable creature?  Cut down all the forests on Borneo and let's see how the Orangs fare.  We can do the same thing to the Mountain Gorilla and see how it goes for them. 

 

Then there is the territorial  imperative bigfoot are claimed to maintain.  Man they don't like it when folks come around even when those folks are a benign  friend of the bigfoot contingent.  So the still in forest clan welcome the refugees of the clan vacating the latest clearcut and super clan emerges.  Where there was 100 is now 200.  It should make it easier to find the buggars yes?  There should be increasingly more evidence of every kind in those extra populated zones.  There should be unexplained lessening of certain game and yes bodies and or burial areas.  If there a bigfoot territorial war are the victors going to bury the losers?  That will make them far more like us and when you get that close to us you've got a few of our tricks like fire.  But none of this happens and none of it has ever happened.   What does happen is bigfooters create layer upon layer of hypothesis in order to keep their game in play.  Bigfoot is neither smart or dumb or us or them.  Bigfoot is whatever the believer needs it to be.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Crowlogic

[SWWASAS]

 

I have a FLIR camera that set me back a lot of money, and just let me say that even FLIR's have limitations.  

 

They just change infrared heat signatures, normally invisible, to visible images.  They have limitations.  If something is in the open against a background or substrate of different temperature, you'll get an image.

 

If they're under thicker foliage, behind thick brush, or behind a tree - you'll get nothing.  Ideally, in winter, or cold weather, the images will stand out much better - IF you catch them in an area unimpeded by foliage, brush, trees, or rocks that would block the image.

 

To do an aerial recon of an area, it would be expensive.  The costs of the plane, and then you'd need the high resolution, more temperature sensitive FLIR cameras.  Other options would be to include MWIR, SWIR and LWIR.  They all have strengths and weaknesses, as they measure different wavelengths.  

 

Most people make the mistake of using the full palettes of colors - and things are so busy - you can't see squat.  The best way to identify patterns is with the grey scale alone.  And you can reverse that where white is hot, black is cold.  Or black is hot, and white is cold.  You just get much better definition without all the distractions that the colors provide.

Gosh darn it Fararcher, every time I think you are BS'ing , I am wrong again: http://www.osa-opn.org/home/articles/volume_22/issue_4/features/seeing_in_the_dark_defense_applications_of_ir_ima/ I know not to bet my son since I will loose every time with him. But you have been right every time, and that's good.

 

The plane would be expensive but you would be only renting to fly it over an area that you suspect they are. These would work and have not checked out the price , but I bet would be expensive. But not until now have I ever heard of this, except for what we have what is sold as thermals or flirs..  I have only played with thermals once and this was in the fall and we had it in that black and white mode. You are right that these creatures can use their surroundings to hide their image among the foliage. If they see you pointing some thing at them I guess they are going to assume they are going to get hurt. Speculation. But the black and white mode you call it the gray scale which I assume is the proper term, correct.

 

We just need to learn more about them that we do not know now, like their hearing and seeing. Their strengths and weaknesses and why they evade us if they are not afraid of us. It's obvious that we are no closer then we were when Patty was first filmed.

 

Some don't need to rent an airplane.   I not only have one I own but it is experimental and I can make any modification to it I want.       If someone conceives of a project that requires an airplane I could probably be talked into using it.   One problem with FLIR from airplanes is you cannot take FLIR images through windows.    Doors have to be removed so there is no barrier to the camera.     There is one problem beyond that.    Night low level flight over mountainous terrain is one of the most dangerous things you can do with an airplane.   Literally the ridge you don't see is the one you will run into.    

Edited April 25, 2016 by SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT

[ShadowBorn]

So what are you trying to purpose here Crow ? That the research goes further then where it is now to the point that it gets dangerous? Cause , this is where it is going. whether you like it or not it is heading that way, and I am not sure people are going to be fine with this. They are tolarable, but for how long? before they break. How far can they be pushed? what is their limit? even man has limits and bears do too as well as any other creature on earth. So far can we push them before they break?

 

See, no one has these answers. But we need to find out, don't we, Right !. Where is that edge of that envelope with them? How far can they be pushed? Answers are needed. Again am I right? Outer limits need to be reached and the only way to do so is to test the boundary's. If one fails then one needs to learn from the failure and test the boundary's again. Again Science which is reaching limits of the un explored. A risk worth taking.

[ShadowBorn]

 

Some don't need to rent an airplane.   I not only have one I own but it is experimental and I can make any modification to it I want.       If someone conceives of a project that requires an airplane I could probably be talked into using it.   One problem with FLIR from airplanes is you cannot take FLIR images through windows.    Doors have to be removed do there is no barrier to the camera.     There is one problem beyond that.    Night low level flight over mountainous terrain is one of the most dangerous things you can do with an airplane.   Literally the ridge you don't see is the one you will run into.

If only you were in Michigan, We can do grid searches with that plane and pivot that plane on it's wing while locating areas . Mark the area with GPS  and maybe travel in or even repel in by helo if possible by going in low to keep the sound low. Spend a few days in to collect data and move out, just what Fararcher is talking about recon. A team effort in a single mission for science, but data is needed and the talking needs to stop. Action needs to take place as a collective, no more about being famous , or money, it is all about science. If we as humans came from Africa, then where did they come from and why? Why are they here? what purpose do they have ? who do they serve ?if not us then who? A planned action is needed. One must be prepared to give it all up for the sake of truth and if that is what it takes then we should do all that must be done. No ? about what should be done , just do it and go for it. If we all have had a good life then our worries should not be for our selves. Life is grand and we should breath it in and embrace it. What other purpose were we put on this earth. Think about that. We are Human beings who have control of our own fate. Let's live it. Science deserves what it needs, the truth.

[SWWASAS]

Bigfoot research is a threat to Crow.     Anything that has the possibility to prove Crow wrong is not a good thing.     Crow brings up the point that shrinking habitat should result in more bigfoot sightings but then pins that very phenomena on mass hysteria related to media exposure of the general public.    Of course the comment about forests is simply wrong.    The forested areas in the US have increased steadily since the early 1970s when managed harvesting practices reversed the trend up to that point.   Additionally in the 1960s the government began to throw more assets at fighting forest fires.   Several massive fires had destroyed hundreds of homes and killed a lot of people.      There is more forested acreage to hide in now than when Patty roamed the woods.       

[Guest Crowlogic]

Bigfoot research is a threat to Crow.     Anything that has the possibility to prove Crow wrong is not a good thing.     Crow brings up the point that shrinking habitat should result in more bigfoot sightings but then pins that very phenomena on mass hysteria related to media exposure of the general public.    Of course the comment about forests is simply wrong.    The forested areas in the US have increased steadily since the early 1970s when managed harvesting practices reversed the trend up to that point.   Additionally in the 1960s the government began to throw more assets at fighting forest fires.   Several massive fires had destroyed hundreds of homes and killed a lot of people.      There is more forested acreage to hide in now than when Patty roamed the woods.       

Bigfoot research is not a threat to me.  I've said it time and time again I am perfectly happy if we have apish mates on the human evolution tree.  What is a threat to me are grown men and women plying pseudo science, pseudo reality, pseudo intellectualism and pseudo rationalizations to give existence to something that doesn't exist .  That is is the threat here.  Grab you son's and grand son's and haul out to the big empty and give them a whopping dose of bigfoot science.  Make sure they know that you are the enlightened and the general darkness within the subject is because of conspiracy, foul play and establishment fear suppression.  You can support this by explaining that the Great Pumpkin in Linus's pumpkin patch is a metaphor for you noble pursuit that they are being initiated into.  

[SWWASAS]

If it is not a threat to you why are you here Crow?    What do you care about enough to hang around a forum dedicated to something you don't believe exists?

Edited April 25, 2016 by SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

Crow has a high degree of intellectual consistency, though.

[BigTreeWalker]

What's pseudo Crow, is your understanding of some things. Your mention of clear cuts for instance. Yes we are cutting faster than mature harvestable trees can be produced. Did you see what I said? Just because they aren't harvestable doesn't mean there isn't cover and food sources there. At this rate we won't see any old growth coming from these timberlands in any foreseeable future. But, it isn't a desert, like you would have everyone to believe. Either the small planted trees are so thick you can't walk through them or it comes back like a natural temperate jungle here in the PNW. The available habitat didn't go anywhere in this instance.

[MIB]

Plussed.   I think "Crow" protesteth far too loudly.

 

Risk .. I'm not concerned too much with risk.  I would probably do what I'm doing where I'm doing it anyway.   I feel safe enough given my level of skill and quality of my gear or else I wouldn't be doing it.   I'm not holding back, in my area there are no things available I think are more productive than what I'm already doing that I'm avoiding because of risk.  The only thing that slows me down are time and weather.

 

MIB

[FarArcher]

Humans also add additional benefit to a relict species that hasn't been mentioned.

 

Agriculture here, there, and yonder, of items such as corn, orchards, and even farm animals provide a source of sustenance.  Read a lot of reports of finding these things feeding in a cornfield or an orchard.

 

In some areas of the Pacific Northwest, cattle ranchers in the Summer will turn their cattle loose in the mountains to graze on the rich grasses and flowers that grow most everywhere, and when it starts to cool off, the cattle will start coming back down, and they'll be gathered and returned to fenced areas for the winter.

 

And they'll lose several cattle every Summer.  To what?  Anybody's guess.  But a cow or two is a lot of meat.  A lot of meat.

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

If you look at mapping imagery for decades over all of North America the recent growth of logging is phenomenal (as I have for my work) it appears as if a third to a half of all forests have been logged in the last 20-30 years.

 

This will increase exponentially till there just is not enough forest, we are there already.

Population is outstripping supply. 

 

Not that the creator intend the forests to be a supply for the logging industry.

The intent is to have a biosphere that supports all life and living communities.

 

There is more to a forest than the trees, it's the entire biotic community and the web of life.

 

We are in the sixth largest extinction in world history.

 

We and Bigfoot are both endangered.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Cryptic Megafauna

[ShadowBorn]

Bigfoot research is not a threat to me.  I've said it time and time again I am perfectly happy if we have apish mates on the human evolution tree.  What is a threat to me are grown men and women plying pseudo science, pseudo reality, pseudo intellectualism and pseudo rationalizations to give existence to something that doesn't exist .  That is is the threat here.  Grab you son's and grand son's and haul out to the big empty and give them a whopping dose of bigfoot science.  Make sure they know that you are the enlightened and the general darkness within the subject is because of conspiracy, foul play and establishment fear suppression.  You can support this by explaining that the Great Pumpkin in Linus's pumpkin patch is a metaphor for you noble pursuit that they are being initiated into.

Then Crow , what do you suggest that we do? give up on the idea that they do exist even though we have seen them in real time. Cause this I can not do, or anyone else who have seen them. Since according to pseudo it means:

 

pseu·do

/ˈsoÍžodÅ/

adjective

adjective: pseudo

not genuine; sham.

"we are talking about real journalists and not the pseudo kind"

 

And this is surely not what we are about, since science is about moving forward and not backwards. This is what you are doing by denying witnesses what they have encountered. But maybe you know this?  I just have no idea, I am not in your thoughts. But one thing is for sure is that you have placed a lot of effort in denying these creatures existence. It is not upsetting nor should we be upset about it, if anything it should be a fire lit under our a**. This should motivate us to prove you wrong and maybe this what you might be trying to accomplish. ( Again speculating ) I have a feeling that you truly believe that they are real, but are having a hard time excepting it. I also believe that you have come into contact with witnesses that you truly believe are telling the truth and this bothers you. I say this since DNA is telling you differently and this is what is preventing you from accepting the truth. I have no worry's on that, there will always be things that we cannot except with out absolute proof.

 

With out even meeting you, you are some one of a higher Education then most of us. This is a profile that I have come up on you, by just reading your post. Science can either work for us or against us. I am hoping that it will work for us. A wasted life on this subject will not go un answered, It must be answered. Just do not become an enemy of science Crow. It will all work out in the end.

[WSA]

CMF^^^

 

I'd suggest the assumption that Uncut Forest=BF Habitat is just that. As far as that goes, it probably doesn't hold true for many species who find better food and cover in edge habitats, second-growth cover and transitional zones. It is anyone's guess right now what a BF prefers, although there is some evidence to suggest they are opportunists, not unlike us, and can exploit many ecological niches.

 

Yes, we are losing a lot of species.  There are a lot of reasons proposed for that. Deforestation is only one, and it explains only some of the extinctions. Primarily these are amphibians and invertebrates in tropical and sub-tropical climates. 

[WSA]

Crow...it might be to the point where I tend to believe you are a mole working to further BF research by copping to deliberate levels of biological and scientific misinformation. 

 

Really, it is getting embarrassing for me to witness, because I sincerely believe you believe you are on to something.  Still, your demonstrated inability to become informed and conversant on so many tangential disciplines to the central question continually leaves me a little bemused. Do you wonder why we would wonder why your opinions matter?  Is this the level of informed and critical thinking you brought to the other side of the discussion, only recently? Ooo boy, if so.