Winter - Where Do They Go

[FarArcher]

To live in back areas, one must come to know the terrain.  One should in time note migration times and migration routes of game animals, even as the seasons change.

 

If these things are half as smart as I think they are, they'll have more than one place to lay up.  After all, from time to time you'll have forest fires, or intrusions from logging teams, and it would just be a naturally occurring thought to keep in mind different natural shelter locations as they are discovered.

 

Push comes to shove, a primitive shelter can be constructed to get out of the wind - enabling a later migration to a known location.

 

Food.  That's the mystery, but then, there have been stories of hunters finding stacks of hindquarters inside caves.  

 

And as Norse said, there would be nuts or berries and the like that could be stored.  If not for electricity, gas, wood stoves etc., and our absolute need to cook our foods, we'd probably be laying low during the cold months as well.

[Lake County Bigfooot]

I live 50 miles from both downtown Chicago and Milwaukee, and we have had at least 3 winter track finds, two snow tracks and one that was between freezes, all of these from Illinois, these were the ones that were without a doubt a bipedal 5 toed creature of enormous size and weight. Also, there have been several track ways that fit the bill in the depth and gait areas, but lacked the distinct toes do to blow over, there are at least three of those types that occurred around me. Realize that we get about as cold as anywhere, -20 degrees/-60 wind chill during January happens fairly routinely here. My guess, based on reports as well as my own experience, is that they gear up in the fall and are very active right up till snow fall, I think their fall diet switches over toward fatty protein like liver, and they move around harvesting deer, coyotes, and other smaller animals eating the fattiest portions of the creatures. They seem to hunker down and move less during winter, or perhaps they just retreat to areas we cannot detect that movement, but occasionally, often during snow storms, or deep freezes they venture out for what I assume is a winter snack, perhaps a coyote liver or two, or a deer heart, whatever is available, and then go hunker down in some more isolated area. Further north they have been detected around Cedar Swamps in the winter, but any low lying area with dense evergreen vegetation is a spot that might be used. Just get under that evergreen, burrow a bit of snow out, and bingo, a toasty hideaway.

 

The one pictured left is not its gait, it seemed to be trying to figure out what to do next and the steps are very close together because it was next to the back part of a building out of view, and seems to be deciding the next course of action, obviously when they are striding the prints will be more in a straight line, but not when pacing around. All of these track ways were found by non researchers who just happened upon them, often in odd places. It is to bad the BFRO does not always go to each find to further seek to document the find, but sometimes the reports come in fairly far after the fact, so what can they do. I have tried to volunteer my services to Stan Courtney to cover the northern part of Illinois during the winter months, I could have gone to the last two and easily seen if the tracks went anywhere, which would have offered much needed information. Stan if you out there the offer still stands. Of course the BFRO does not want to just let everyone in on it's discoveries. That is almost reason enough to become a BFRO investigator, just so you could be in the loop on activity.

 

Beach Park IL, Bedford Park IL, and a forest preserve near Winfield IL, is the one in soil that took place in January 2011.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Lake County Bigfooot

[Gotta Know]

This thread's rolling now! Really cool topic, and to SWWA., I look forward to seeing your shots from the air next time you can get out.

 

Questions about what you've seen so far: do you get the sense there is a pattern at play (trails from den to feeding area and back sort of thing), or a randomness that might be intended as a way of keeping (people) off their trail? Do the trails stay in the tree line, or are you finding them across great expanses of open snowfields? Any concentrations at a particular spot that suggest a family's home site? (I'd be surprised at this last one if there were).

 

I think surviving in the winter must be particularly tough for them, in large part because they obviously know they are leaving a trail. So while they presumably have to go out and forage, they also have to be aware that someone might be looking. I imagine they go to great lengths to protect their home base.

 

It would be fascinating to see a map overlay of the trails you find against the actual topography. I'm glad that the Forest Service closes the roads in the winter for the reasons you stated, and for the BF as well. I'd guess that too-frequent fly overs (by anyone) might change their winter behavior. But it would be something to dissect your photos and find established travel routes, etc.

 

And while I'm thinking of it, I'd not be surprised if they don't know you by your plane like they do your car.

 

Safe flying!

 

GK

[Bodhi]

David Badorf (sp??) of the squatchers lounge podcast had a nice map of migratory patterns for the suspected prey animals for sasquatches (for PNW area).

It seemed at least plausible that, if they are corporeal animals, they might shadow those migratory routes.

I'm not in snow country but would that offer any sort of solution to the lack of discernible prints?

Supposing that they are moving with or just a bit in front of the animals as they migrate to winter grazing? I think that would take care of food, I'm curious about whether that might mask prints. Shelter is another matter altogether though, no idea at all how that would work if they were moving along the routes.

 

I think they're mythological, just to be clear, but I did think that Badorf (?) had an interesting idea.

[Gotta Know]

So noted. But come on, you wouldn't be here unless you held a little bit of hope that they just might be real, right?

 

Just playin'. Carry on.

 

I think they're mythological, just to be clear, but I did think that Badorf (?) had an interesting idea.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Gotta Know

[BobbyO]

You are correct there are some winter sightings.

 

Alaska is big, for sure.  There are 5703 general aviation aircraft in Alaska (thanks Google).  There is a saying up here, that 10% of aircraft do 90% of the flying, I happen to agree.  That means 570 probably fly about 100 hours a year, some more.  The other 90% who knows, we won’t even count them.   I think 100 hours a year is a good average though.   That’s comes to 57,000 flight hours annually of general aviation pilots flying this state from one end to the other looking out the window as they go.   Most planes have at least 2 seats, that’s a second pair of eyes – looking out the window.   The see every kind of wildlife the state has, winter and summer.   I just don’t hear about BF sightings from the air, yes there have been a few, but not many.   How come?   It just doesn’t add up.   Law of averages pilots should have the bulk of reports.   Even though Alaska is vast, in reality not much of it is unseen.   A flight of 57,000 flight hours – looking out the window, cannot be shrugged off.   

How often through the year is there heavy cloud cover though when visibility is low to non existent to see spot trackways from 10,000/20,000ft in the air ?

[Bodhi]

 

So noted. But come on, you wouldn't be here unless you held a little bit of hope that they just might be real, right?

 

Just playin'. Carry on.

 

I think they're mythological, just to be clear, but I did think that Badorf (?) had an interesting idea.

 

I'm really into the sound recordings. The audio is just cool. The idea of a giant that hasn't left a trace in say, 50,000 years of residing in, seemingly, all of north america is sorta silly when you look at it logically.

 

It would be very very cool to be completely wrong about that though. In the meantime the audio is great campfire creepy pasta type fodder

[BobbyO]

 

There are reports summer/fall of BF sightings here.  But very little in the winter, there are some, but the vast majority is when snow is gone.  Where do BF go?   They go somewhere.  I would think mountain pass routes would be used and not climbing over the Alaska Range from the interior would be prudent.   Around 2800 feet is tree line in the central Alaska Range, if I was a BF I would not go above tree line you would be seen in very short order.   That leaves traveling in along rivers in riparian habitat south, or staying in the boreal forest for cover.  Checking the map, (thanks Google Earth) the Alaska Hwy does that very thing.   That could mean there should be more sightings on that route than others.   Ha, this BF stuff is easy.  I checked reported sightings along the Alaska Hwy vrs the rest of the state.   All I can report here is there is a conglomeration of web sites and reports and my head was spinning by the time I looked at two web sites.   I suspect, that theory doesn’t hold true.  

 

When you play the game of connect the dots at some point things should start to make sense and straight lines should appear.   Not the case here.

I understand where you're coming from no doubt but for me, as there are reports from winter, that goes to show that they don't necessarily go nowhere.

We have to go back to the old "For a Sighting, you need a person".

Admittedly I have no experience of an Alaskan winter but I can't imagine there are too many people out in winter there as there would be in summer or at other times of the year anyway.

Flying, yeah ok tracks can be spotted from the air, trackways can, but I wouldn't personally bank on a lack of reports by pilots leading me to believe that Sasquatches aren't there, especially not when we are talking about an Alaska with 129 million forested acres.

David Badorf (sp??) of the squatchers lounge podcast had a nice map of migratory patterns for the suspected prey animals for sasquatches (for PNW area).

It seemed at least plausible that, if they are corporeal animals, they might shadow those migratory routes.

I'm not in snow country but would that offer any sort of solution to the lack of discernible prints?

Supposing that they are moving with or just a bit in front of the animals as they migrate to winter grazing? I think that would take care of food, I'm curious about whether that might mask prints. Shelter is another matter altogether though, no idea at all how that would work if they were moving along the routes.

 

I think they're mythological, just to be clear, but I did think that Badorf (?) had an interesting idea.

I tried to look for that map but with no joy, do you know where he posted it or have you got a link please ?

It's Batdorf by the way.

[SWWASAS]

 

You are correct there are some winter sightings.

 

Alaska is big, for sure.  There are 5703 general aviation aircraft in Alaska (thanks Google).  There is a saying up here, that 10% of aircraft do 90% of the flying, I happen to agree.  That means 570 probably fly about 100 hours a year, some more.  The other 90% who knows, we won’t even count them.   I think 100 hours a year is a good average though.   That’s comes to 57,000 flight hours annually of general aviation pilots flying this state from one end to the other looking out the window as they go.   Most planes have at least 2 seats, that’s a second pair of eyes – looking out the window.   The see every kind of wildlife the state has, winter and summer.   I just don’t hear about BF sightings from the air, yes there have been a few, but not many.   How come?   It just doesn’t add up.   Law of averages pilots should have the bulk of reports.   Even though Alaska is vast, in reality not much of it is unseen.   A flight of 57,000 flight hours – looking out the window, cannot be shrugged off.   

How often through the year is there heavy cloud cover though when visibility is low to non existent to see spot trackways from 10,000/20,000ft in the air ?

 

 

 

I flew into Anchorage about once or month or more for many years.    In the winter heavy fog and overcast is so common that arrivals were usually IFR with low ceilings and fog in the Anchorage area.   It is unnerving to descend in there in the clouds when you know how much high terrain is East of there.    You hope the controller does not descend you early and run you into the ground.  .    So light aircraft are not doing much flying there in the winter.   No one is seeing much of  anything from the air in the winter months.   Even though I have searched for BF from the air and have dozens of hours doing it, only one time have I seen what might have been a BF.      I think they hide from airplanes too.   What I saw let me fly by and it moved around the backside of some trees to get them between me and it.  It was big, on two feet, and wanted to hide from me.    A human would have been waving.    The only way you can see a BF from the air is if you catch it in the open as did.       I think aerial search might have more chance for success in the intermountain West where the tree density is much less and there are more open spaces.    Eastern Oregon,  Eastern Washington,   Idaho, and Montana would be good areas.      In Alaska and the PNW the trees are too dense to see down through them. 

 

  My comment was about trackways in the winter and those trackways are well away from areas where humans are active.          To answer Gotta Know they seem be going someplace, are not particularly in the woodlines or I would not see them from the air.   If they or anyone are in the trees they are for the most part unable to be seen from the air.      And finally with all honesty,    while you can see the trackways and assume they were not made by humans because of the remote areas they are found in,  with no vehicles and tire tracks on roads in miles,    you cannot in all honestly differentiate between human footprints and bigfoot prints from the air.   Size in snow is meaningless from the air because once any melt starts a footprint gets bigger in snow.    And you certainly cannot tell from the air if a footprint has toes or is made by a boot.      Vehicles are a sure indication from the air that humans are present anywhere in an area.     They and their tire tracks in snow are easy to spot.    If the surrounding roads are snow covered with no tire tracks,  you can reasonably assume that no humans are in the area unless you have some sort of mountain man that does not have a vehicle.   It is hard to explain the lack of roads to people not familiar with Skamania County.     There are very few roads to begin with, and in the winter most are closed.   

 

Anyway when we get a clear sunny day I will get over there in the remote areas and photograph some track ways.        I wish I had a helicopter and could get over there and land.     It could be that some migration routes could be discovered comparing photographs of those track ways year to year.     That might be a study I could start and run several years.     But there is no reason that winter migration routes would have any relationship to presence in the other months when you can get in there on foot.     Another idea I just had is if there are a bunch of footprints in areas where there are lava flows, lava tubes,   and possible caves,   their footprints might lead you right to their winter dens.       That might have some potential.        

[Guest]

 

 

You are correct there are some winter sightings.

 

Alaska is big, for sure.  There are 5703 general aviation aircraft in Alaska (thanks Google).  There is a saying up here, that 10% of aircraft do 90% of the flying, I happen to agree.  That means 570 probably fly about 100 hours a year, some more.  The other 90% who knows, we won’t even count them.   I think 100 hours a year is a good average though.   That’s comes to 57,000 flight hours annually of general aviation pilots flying this state from one end to the other looking out the window as they go.   Most planes have at least 2 seats, that’s a second pair of eyes – looking out the window.   The see every kind of wildlife the state has, winter and summer.   I just don’t hear about BF sightings from the air, yes there have been a few, but not many.   How come?   It just doesn’t add up.   Law of averages pilots should have the bulk of reports.   Even though Alaska is vast, in reality not much of it is unseen.   A flight of 57,000 flight hours – looking out the window, cannot be shrugged off.   

How often through the year is there heavy cloud cover though when visibility is low to non existent to see spot trackways from 10,000/20,000ft in the air ?

 

 

 

I flew into Anchorage about once or month or more for many years.    In the winter heavy fog and overcast is so common that arrivals were usually IFR with low ceilings and fog in the Anchorage area.   It is unnerving to descend in there in the clouds when you know how much high terrain is East of there.    You hope the controller does not descend you early and run you into the ground.  .    So light aircraft are not doing much flying there in the winter.   No one is seeing much of  anything from the air in the winter months.   Even though I have searched for BF from the air and have dozens of hours doing it, only one time have I seen what might have been a BF.      I think they hide from airplanes too.   What I saw let me fly by and it moved around the backside of some trees to get them between me and it.  It was big, on two feet, and wanted to hide from me.    A human would have been waving.    The only way you can see a BF from the air is if you catch it in the open as did.       I think aerial search might have more chance for success in the intermountain West where the tree density is much less and there are more open spaces.    Eastern Oregon,  Eastern Washington,   Idaho, and Montana would be good areas.      In Alaska and the PNW the trees are too dense to see down through them. 

 

  My comment was about trackways in the winter and those trackways are well away from areas where humans are active.          To answer Gotta Know they seem be going someplace, are not particularly in the woodlines or I would not see them from the air.   If they or anyone are in the trees they are for the most part unable to be seen from the air.      And finally with all honesty,    while you can see the trackways and assume they were not made by humans because of the remote areas they are found in,  with no vehicles and tire tracks on roads in miles,    you cannot in all honestly differentiate between human footprints and bigfoot prints from the air.   Size in snow is meaningless from the air because once any melt starts a footprint gets bigger in snow.    And you certainly cannot tell from the air if a footprint has toes or is made by a boot.      Vehicles are a sure indication from the air that humans are present anywhere in an area.     They and their tire tracks in snow are easy to spot.    If the surrounding roads are snow covered with no tire tracks,  you can reasonably assume that no humans are in the area unless you have some sort of mountain man that does not have a vehicle.   It is hard to explain the lack of roads to people not familiar with Skamania County.     There are very few roads to begin with, and in the winter most are closed.   

 

Anyway when we get a clear sunny day I will get over there in the remote areas and photograph some track ways.        I wish I had a helicopter and could get over there and land.     It could be that some migration routes could be discovered comparing photographs of those track ways year to year.     That might be a study I could start and run several years.     But there is no reason that winter migration routes would have any relationship to presence in the other months when you can get in there on foot.     Another idea I just had is if there are a bunch of footprints in areas where there are lava flows, lava tubes,   and possible caves,   their footprints might lead you right to their winter dens.       That might have some potential.        

 

I don't know where you get your facts, but you have some messed up info.   Anchorage/Lake Hood is the largest general aviation facility on the planet.  Over 500 float pond slips alone for float aircraft.   I checked, and feel free to check as well 45000 general aviation flight operations a year off of Lake Hood.   The weather is not always bad, there are lots of Visual Flight Rule (VFR) days.  I checked on that too, an average of 21 days a month ANC is VFR.  Fairbanks even more days.  Most aircraft on Lake Hood put ski's on in the winter, because they fly in the winter.   A blanket statement that very little flying going on up here in winter is crazy.

I never said anything about spotting anything from 10 or 20 thousand feet in the air, hell you would be lucky to see a bus from that height.  I said 1000 ft agl.

 

I was referring to Alaska on my comments not PNW, Chicago or Florida.

 

Alaska has too many tress to see down through, what are you talking about?   Above tree line there are no trees and you can see down throw most of the trees in winter no leaves.  It's not a rainforest in the interior.   Tundra areas have very few trees there is millions of square miles of tundra.

 

 Fish and Game has no trouble doing aerial surveys to count bears, moose, sheep or what ever less they care to count from the air.  

Counts are accurate enough to set bag limits and seasons for hunters.   

 

You can banter about this till you blue in the face, the fact is there are a whole bunch of folks up here with the opportunity to see "something" and they are reporting nothing.   It's either a big secret and they don't tell anyone, or they don't see anything.   We don't have many lava tubes handy for BF to hide in.  Brings me back to my original statement, where are they going in the winter?   I think it's a good question.  It's obvious to me BF are leaving the area before heavy snow, how they do I don't know.   

[BobbyO]

Your question has been answered numerous times, you just don't seem to like certain answers as they don't fit in with what you perceive or want the answer to be.

If there wasn't reports of them in winter then we could be debating and debating but there are reports and that should lead people, including you, to the conclusion that they're there in winter, in Alaska still.

Every State and Province in North America sees winter as its lowest number of sighting reports, every single one bar none.

If you're now saying you're only talking about light aircraft that fly at a thousand feet in winter then you're restricting yourself to extremely low elevations and even then, with 169 millions acres of forested land in Alaska and a mean elevation throughout he state of 1,900ft, I'm thinking even more so that the lack of reports of trackways by pilots isn't a big deal in the slightest and I'm quite confused why anyone would put such weight on that in to a reasonable debate with a valid question.

These planes can be allowed to fly, for sure, but that doesn't mean their visibility isn't badly restricted even at 1,000ft.

SE Alaska in Winter, averaging 22 days per month of rain/snow.

SC Alaska in Winter, averaging 15 days per month of rain/snow.

SW Alaska in Winter, averaging 18 days per month of rain/snow.

https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Alaska/average-alaska-weather.php

See below map of elevations in the State and where and what.

This is a good thread though and a great subject as winter is a crucial time for most North American animals, but I think I've showed why we don't need to be going down the road of putting too much emphasis on if pilots aren't reporting trackways, the whole thing doesn't make any sense.

Edited February 16, 2016 by BobbyO

[norseman]

So noted. But come on, you wouldn't be here unless you held a little bit of hope that they just might be real, right?

 

Just playin'. Carry on.

I think they're mythological, just to be clear, but I did think that Badorf (?) had an interesting idea.

I'm really into the sound recordings. The audio is just cool. The idea of a giant that hasn't left a trace in say, 50,000 years of residing in, seemingly, all of north america is sorta silly when you look at it logically.

 

It would be very very cool to be completely wrong about that though. In the meantime the audio is great campfire creepy pasta type fodder

I dont think its any more silly than the idea of little hobbits running around the jungles of Micronesia. At least until they found bones very recently....no one is laughing anymore.

Just read that study in France has confirmed the skulls of the hobbit were healthy and not modern human.

[Bodhi]

 

 

There are reports summer/fall of BF sightings here.  But very little in the winter, there are some, but the vast majority is when snow is gone.  Where do BF go?   They go somewhere.  I would think mountain pass routes would be used and not climbing over the Alaska Range from the interior would be prudent.   Around 2800 feet is tree line in the central Alaska Range, if I was a BF I would not go above tree line you would be seen in very short order.   That leaves traveling in along rivers in riparian habitat south, or staying in the boreal forest for cover.  Checking the map, (thanks Google Earth) the Alaska Hwy does that very thing.   That could mean there should be more sightings on that route than others.   Ha, this BF stuff is easy.  I checked reported sightings along the Alaska Hwy vrs the rest of the state.   All I can report here is there is a conglomeration of web sites and reports and my head was spinning by the time I looked at two web sites.   I suspect, that theory doesn’t hold true.  

 

When you play the game of connect the dots at some point things should start to make sense and straight lines should appear.   Not the case here.

I understand where you're coming from no doubt but for me, as there are reports from winter, that goes to show that they don't necessarily go nowhere.

We have to go back to the old "For a Sighting, you need a person".

Admittedly I have no experience of an Alaskan winter but I can't imagine there are too many people out in winter there as there would be in summer or at other times of the year anyway.

Flying, yeah ok tracks can be spotted from the air, trackways can, but I wouldn't personally bank on a lack of reports by pilots leading me to believe that Sasquatches aren't there, especially not when we are talking about an Alaska with 129 million forested acres.

David Badorf (sp??) of the squatchers lounge podcast had a nice map of migratory patterns for the suspected prey animals for sasquatches (for PNW area).

It seemed at least plausible that, if they are corporeal animals, they might shadow those migratory routes.

I'm not in snow country but would that offer any sort of solution to the lack of discernible prints?

Supposing that they are moving with or just a bit in front of the animals as they migrate to winter grazing? I think that would take care of food, I'm curious about whether that might mask prints. Shelter is another matter altogether though, no idea at all how that would work if they were moving along the routes.

 

I think they're mythological, just to be clear, but I did think that Badorf (?) had an interesting idea.

I tried to look for that map but with no joy, do you know where he posted it or have you got a link please ?

It's Batdorf by the way.

 

Hey Bobby,

It was during one of the squatchers lounge podcast shows. I don't recall the season and Kelley loves using clickbait for his episode titles so trying to go back is tricky. I think it was season 2 and they were discussing migration and or sasquatch moving ranges seasonally.

 

 

So noted. But come on, you wouldn't be here unless you held a little bit of hope that they just might be real, right?

 

Just playin'. Carry on.

I think they're mythological, just to be clear, but I did think that Badorf (?) had an interesting idea.

I'm really into the sound recordings. The audio is just cool. The idea of a giant that hasn't left a trace in say, 50,000 years of residing in, seemingly, all of north america is sorta silly when you look at it logically.

 

It would be very very cool to be completely wrong about that though. In the meantime the audio is great campfire creepy pasta type fodder

I dont think its any more silly than the idea of little hobbits running around the jungles of Micronesia. At least until they found bones very recently....no one is laughing anymore.

Just read that study in France has confirmed the skulls of the hobbit were healthy and not modern human.

 

The day someone finds a giant primate bone/fossil in a cave somewhere in North America sasquatch will be plausible. Until then it's supposition based special pleading. IMO Special pleading because of all the excuses which have to be made to explain why the things never leave traces, avoid detection by game cameras, etc, etc, etc....

 

That said, IF someone digs up a fossil....whole new ballgame.

[Guest Crowlogic]

They go to Aruba in winter.  The beaches are swarming with them this time of year.  But they use the portal cloaking device to appear invisible.  However if you know how to look you see the sand sticking to the fur and soon you know it's a wintering bigfoot.

[dmaker]

They must portal back every now and then to account for the winter sighting reports. That, or people are just making stuff up as usual.  You would think a bigfoot would be pretty easy to track in deep snow.